My view has done a complete 180

[Mary456]

gryncher,

Have you seen the letter written to Jason in 1996 where the writer reports a conversation he had with Michael Carson in which Carson admitted he lied? Here's a link: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/johnny_preston_letter.html

Did Carson admit he lied, or did Johnny Preston claim that Carson admitted he lied?

There's a huge difference.

In a courtroom, this would be considered hearsay. It would not be allowed.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Preston would have to testify. Then the information would not be hearsay. If the "softball girls" could testify as to what they heard someone else (Damien) say, then Johnny Preston could testify as to what he heard Michael Carson say.

 

[justthinkin]

CR, I am not sure where you get the idea that Damien was scared. I know he has stated that he was not only angry, but scared as well, and yet, I see nothing in his demeanor at all, either before the trial or during the trial that indicates in the smallest way that he was scared. His words do not match his actions.
---
Dance with the dead in my dreams
Listen to their hallowed screams
The dead have taken my soul
Temptation's lost all controll.--Damien Echols
8/13/93

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Words not matching actions is pretty typical for a guy like Damien. He had a "persona" to uphold. He would work very hard to avoid looking scared because he had to maintain his "bad boy" image. Yes, that was a foolish attitude. He was acting like a teenager. Sad, but true. Any mature person, knowing the mess he/she was in, would not have acted like Damien did. IMO, that's even more proof of his innocence. Like he said, he didn't think that he could be convicted since he was innocent.

 

[Melanie]

Man, this case is driving me NUTS. I really want to know who made the bite mark (IF it is fact a bite mark). Why did Mark Byers have his teeth removed (he gave several versions, including they were voluntarily extracted). Yes, he passed the LDT, but he was doped to the hilt at the time. These days they won't give you a LDT if you have a cold! How did his wife die? Drugs? Sure - but why does the death certificate say "undetermined".

OTOH, I cannot imagine such a grim crime scene that doesn't leave behind DNA evidence from the WM3. I also have doubts that the dump site was not the original crime scene. Yet, Misskeley Jr. confessed to the crime and implicated the other 2.

All I can say is I'm very interested in the new evidence to be presented.

MOO

Mel

 

[Melanie]

sorry if this has been asked and answered, but does anyone know if/when Untying the Knot will be released. I'm suprised that after all this time John Mark Byers stands 100% behind the WM3.

MOO

Mel

http://www.johnmarkbyers.com/

ETA: Nevermind - not made available to the public yet.

 

[gryncher]

CR, I am not sure where you get the idea that Damien was scared. I know he has stated that he was not only angry, but scared as well, and yet, I see nothing in his demeanor at all, either before the trial or during the trial that indicates in the smallest way that he was scared. His words do not match his actions.
---
Dance with the dead in my dreams
Listen to their hallowed screams
The dead have taken my soul
Temptation's lost all controll.--Damien Echols
8/13/93

FYI - that isn't a Damien Echols' quote - they're Slayer lyrics.

And I fully agree - Damien, as he was captured on film saying, was "enjoying" the entire thing. Which was obvious even without that declaration.

He clearly wallowed in being the "West Memphis Boogieman".

 

[gryncher]

Words not matching actions is pretty typical for a guy like Damien. He had a "persona" to uphold. He would work very hard to avoid looking scared because he had to maintain his "bad boy" image. Yes, that was a foolish attitude. He was acting like a teenager. Sad, but true. Any mature person, knowing the mess he/she was in, would not have acted like Damien did. IMO, that's even more proof of his innocence. Like he said, he didn't think that he could be convicted since he was innocent.

Basically everything you post is speculation and stems from a false sense of somehow knowing this guy on a personal level.

 

[2goldfish]

Basically everything you post is speculation and stems from a false sense of somehow knowing this guy on a personal level.

I dont think that is true, his/her posts are well articulated and well thought out with links provided if necessary, we're all here trying to learn the truth and I think we should all respect one another's viewpoints. when given the same data we may come to different conclusions. I have been enjoying your posts as for me you are playing devil's advocate and that's a very useful role when debating a case like this. but try as you may, what conclusions you came to or come to may never be the ones I come to, or other posters.

 

[gryncher]

I dont think that is true, his/her posts are well articulated and well thought out with links provided if necessary, we're all here trying to learn the truth and I think we should all respect one another's viewpoints. when given the same data we may come to different conclusions. I have been enjoying your posts as for me you are playing devil's advocate and that's a very useful role when debating a case like this. but try as you may, what conclusions you came to or come to may never be the ones I come to, or other posters.

Fair enough.

 

[iluvmua]

Two things I would Love for the P's to bring up if in fact there is a new trial is the Pendant and the shirt Jessie Misskelley was wearing which had a blood stain on it.

Those two items were not tested because the Defense did not want them to be tested.

hmmmm..... now IF your client is in fact innocent, why would you not want certain items tested???

Blood matched Jason & Stevie's Blood Type found on Pendant

Blood found on The Shirt Jessie was wearing matched his & Michael Moore's

Not all of the Items were tested for DNA (the two I mentioned above were not).

 

[iluvmua]

I wonder if TH ever took a Poly?

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Mel,
JMB has "stood behind" the WM3 since it was revealed that TH's DNA and that of his friend were found at the discovery site. As to Untying the Knot, I believe that the release, like that of Paradise Lose 3, is being held up until after the evidentiary hearing and possibly until after the next (and final) trial.

gryncher,
Yes, thank you for pointing out that the quote attributed to DE was actually a Metallica lyric. This happened several times during the trial, IIRC, where the prosecution would attribute Metallica or other group lyrics to Damien in order to make him seem "Satanic" or at least weird. My son, who is just a month younger than Damien, also listened to those bands (still does, in fact) and was always pointing out to me when we were watching the documentaries when the prosecution was attributing lyrics to Damien.

iluvmua,
Damien has said, "Test everything!" He has nothing to hide. I don't think that the defense is dragging its feet on testing. OTOH, the State, in the person of Burnett, disallowed additional testing of the fiber evidence by newer methods. IIRC, that type of testing is now being/has been done and should be part of the new evidence presented at the hearing.

2goldfish,
Thank you, and I am female.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I wonder if TH ever took a Poly?

To my knowledge, no. He has refused to take a lie detector test, saying, "Why should I?" During the Pasdar deposition (if you haven't read that, do), he was evasive in most of his answers, saying things like "I dunno" and "I can't remember" and "It's none o' your business" and calling other depositions that called his actions into question a "bunch o' garbage" and saying that he just wanted everyone to "get offa my trail" about the case. It was a very revealing interview. But take a polygraph? He has adamantly refused to do that. Not that it would prove anything, really. As many here and elsewhere have pointed out, polygraphs are inadmissible in court for a reason. They are unreliable. Kind of like eyewitness testimony. Two people seeing the same thing can give two very different reports. That's why physical evidence linking a person to a crime is really better IMO than eyewitness testimony.

Here's the link to the Hobbs deposition: Part 1: http://callahan.8k.com/hobbs_pasdar/t_hobbs_depo1.html
Part 2: http://callahan.8k.com/hobbs_pasdar/t_hobbs_depo2.html

 

[justthinkin]

gryncher,

Thanks for pointing out those were Slayer lyrics. Really, it should be noted when something is actually Damien's writing as opposed to lyrics he collected.

Because if someone is not familiar with those lyrics, it's easy to make that mistake.

 

[iluvmua]

Q: Is there any reason why the supporters of the WM3 went after John Mark Byers first and then went after Terry Hobbs?

and did any supporters in the beginning of this case think that Terry Hobbs should be the main suspect?

and did any of the parents ( Todd & Dana Moore, Pam Hobbs, Melissa Byers etc., extended family members) of the victims think that Terry Hobbs should be looked at as a suspect early on in the investigation?

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Not all supporters initially thought that JMB was guilty. Not all supporters now believe TH is the guilty party. Pam Hicks and her family suspected Terry early on, but Gitchell told her not to mess up his case with her suspicions. The main reason IMO that suspicion has shifted from JMB to TH is the physical evidence found at the discovery site that links TH to the crime. When you couple that with the depositions, especially the deposition of Mildred French, taken during the Pasdar case, evidence of a past violent history emerges that would tend to make most intelligent people begin to suspect TH. His own deposition during the Pasdar case also adds to the suspicion as he is evasive and non responsive in so many of his answers. Again, I hate to keep bringing this up, but I feel certain that the upcoming hearing will present new evidence that might help solidify a case against TH.

 

[gryncher]

Not all supporters initially thought that JMB was guilty. Not all supporters now believe TH is the guilty party. Pam Hicks and her family suspected Terry early on, but Gitchell told her not to mess up his case with her suspicions. The main reason IMO that suspicion has shifted from JMB to TH is the physical evidence found at the discovery site that links TH to the crime. When you couple that with the depositions, especially the deposition of Mildred French, taken during the Pasdar case, evidence of a past violent history emerges that would tend to make most intelligent people begin to suspect TH. His own deposition during the Pasdar case also adds to the suspicion as he is evasive and non responsive in so many of his answers. Again, I hate to keep bringing this up, but I feel certain that the upcoming hearing will present new evidence that might help solidify a case against TH.

That hair could have easily been transferred innocently. The boys played at TH's house. The boys played together. That hair is not incriminating.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

What about the DJ hair? The boys didn't play at his house. We have no statements that put either of the boys in DJ's house at all that day. Also, the TH hair was not just on the clothing of one of the boys as it would be in an innocent transfer. It was in the ligature tying MM. That means, if it were innocent transfer, it survived being pulled through the eyelets of the shoe when it was removed to use the lace to bind Michael. And, it was a beard hair, not a head hair. A possible scenario for its presence on the lace is that TH tried to use his teeth to "cut" the lace and the hair came out and became embedded in the lace when he tied the knot. The DJ hair OTOH was on a tree stump. IMO, that hair fell off of the person who carried it there when he either sat down on the tree stump to rest after moving two of the bodies or when he leaned against the tree to catch his breath after the same activity. TH had been at DJ's house (by DJ's deposition in the Pasdar case) playing guitars on the afternoon/early evening of May 5, 1993 (from about 5:15 when he returned from taking his wife to work until about 6:15 or 6:30). He could have had one of DJ's hairs on his clothes when he left the house. If DJ is to be believed, that means that after TH took Pam to work, he stopped by his friend's house and played guitars for an hour while his step son was missing. Does this sound like the action of a concerned parent to you? DJ stated that he saw the boys on bikes riding down the street when TH came in at about 5:15. Try this scenario on for size. TH gets home from taking Pam to work to find Stevie there eating. Stevie begs TH to let him play with his friends just a while longer. TH gives permission and goes to DJ's house, taking Amanda with him. When he goes home after the guitar-playing, Stevie is not back. TH was probably getting concerned because it was getting dark. So, he wants to find the boys. It is my theory that something happened on May 4, 1993, that caused Stevie to want to run away from home. At school on May 5th, he enlists the help of his friends. They go to their manhole hideout so Stevie can hide there until one of his maternal grandparents can be discretely contacted. This is the way an eight year old would think. When TH found them at his house, Stevie was really getting supplies (the backpacks) to spend the night in the manhole, if needed. When TH returns home at 6:15ish, he is angry that Stevie is not home. He knows about the manhole and goes there to confront Stevie. The confrontation turns violent, and he hits Stevie too hard, knocking him unconscious. He panics, and so do the other boys. He probably thought that he had killed Stevie. He believes that he has to eliminate the witnesses, so he knocks the other two boys unconscious, again believing that he has killed them. He leaves them in the manhole where they drown or die of their wounds; animals predate on them; he moves the bodies later, when the searching is over. He moves the bodies because he is afraid that there might be some evidence in the manhole that would link him to the crime. There's more to the story than this, but I've stated it in other posts. The point is that this type of scenario makes much more sense than for three teens who didn't know the boys to have found them in the woods (when they all had alibis for that time frame, prior to 6:30 pm) and murdered them in some sort of bizarre Satanic cult ritual. If it had been a cult ritual, the bodies would not have been hidden. They would have been displayed. This theory also explains the virtual lack of blood at the discovery ditch. The police even believed that the discovery site was not the scene of the crime until Jessie told his wild story. This is called "The Manhole Theory" and it was developed, after much researching and consulting of experts, by another poster on another board. There are tweaks as to when the boys were killed and other details, but the identity of the murderer and the basics of the crime are pretty much established. This theory is published and discussed at the blackboard site. Right now, the site is experiencing problems, but hopefully it will be back up and running very soon. I invite you to check it out: www.wm3blackboard.com.

 

[ziggy]

I could buy secondary transfer of TH and DJ hairs if it were not for the fact that we have THREE alledged perpetrators and not one of their hairs is found at the scene, on the boys or their clothing, yet we supposedly have two hairs innocently transfered to the scene via the boys? The boys who were out riding their bikes and cavorting about? There is supposedly a struggle (if you believe any of what Jesse says) between the perps and the kids; the children are sexually assaulted and not one hair falls, not one hair from THREE people at the scene can be found? No pubic hairs? Yet, 2 people that were not at the scene leave hair evidence. It's too unbelievable. If the crime scene were the Hobbs home I'd believe it, the hair would likely have already been there and easily tangled up in the shoe lace - but not out in the open and not with a supposed struggle.