Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #4

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JaneInOz

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This is another photo of him with another photo of Jock as a insert to compare

picture.php


The Hairline Eyebrows Nose Jaw all seem to fit...

A number of us thought that this man fits the profile of the deceased Jock Doe as well

Can we submit this ?

Edward had a number of temp fillings and normal fillings. Its possible in the year and a bit he was missing he had further work done

The appendix scar which was 10cm long could be a hernia scar.

They have Dna for both and dental records so it would be a easy one to rule out or not
 

runr

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1. Jean-Paul Fortier & Frères Inc
Telephone : 1-800-463-3454
This is a large French-Canadian company, that appears to have been around for a long time.

2. http://www.desjardins.com/en/votre_caisse/81550044/echov1n4.pdf
Guy on left is a financial advisor named JPF.

3.
4. http://translate.google.com/transla...rosoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADBS_en&sa=N
5. Obit at bottom of the page on the left
http://translate.google.com/transla...rosoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADBS_en&sa=N

6. I also found a Jean-Paul Fortier with a birthday of 4 July, unknown year, who is recognized in a medical-related journal.
 

runr

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translated via Google, but perhaps there was a nephew named JPF, so he’s not mentioned in this obit???
1088
JEAN PAUL FORTIER
(1921-2007)
RENÉE MONTREUIL
(Arthur + Juliet
Roberge)
(+ Leonie Yves Papineau)
Arthur Fortier> Thomas + Melina Vel-Sansoucy>
+ Rosalie Damasus-Pomerleau Vachon> André +
Angelica Lemieux> Charles + Elizabeth Jalbert>
Charles-François + Marie Audet-Lapointe> Louis
Véronique Denis Lapierre-> Pierre-Noel + Anne
Leclerc> + M. Antoine Madeleine Cadieux> Noel + Marthe Golle
Published in La Tribune 2007/01/05
FORTIER, Jean-Paul, m.d. (1921 - 2007)
Son of George Arthur Fortier and Juliet
Roberge of Sher-brooke, Jean-Paul
For-tier died in Sherbrooke on January 2
2007. It happens, his wife Lady Renee
Montreuil, his son Yves (Coutu Pauline), Denis,
Louis (Monique Michaud) of Sherbroo-ke, Guy
(Carmen Degagné) Lake Kénogami his daughter Sylvie
Fortier-Lemaire de Saint-Sauveur des Monts, its
son Gilles Lemaire, and its
grandchildren Méla-nie, and Pierre-Yves
Catherine, and his great grand-son Alexander.
He also leaves to mourn his sisters Suzanne
Fortier-Quesnel Montreal and Marie-Berthe of
Magog, and his fine brothers of Quebec,
Montreal and Victo-riaville. After studying
Quebec medical and post-university
Paris, he was assistant clinical graduate of the
Clinical Ophthalmology of Domestic
Fifteen-twenty Paris, Dr. Fortier fit
career for over 40 years in his hometown
hometown of Sherbrooke as
medical specialist. Dr. Fortier was president
of the Association of Physicians of Lan-gauge
Française des Cantons de l'Est, Vice-President
the Association des Médecins de Langue Française
Quebec. It was so aus-graduate of the Canadian
Council of Canada (LMCC), a Fellow of the Royal College
Doctors and Chi-rurgiens of Canada, Fellow of
the American Academy of ophthalmic-mology and
Otolaryngology and society as-College
Surgeons International. Upon retirement, the
Dr. Fortier is recycled in the cla
art. Arts degree from the University of
Sherbrooke, he parite of artistic groups
Lennoxville, Sherbrooke and Magog. In the presence
ash, the family welcomes you to miles
the premises: Cooperative Burial Estrie
526 Prospect Street Sherbrooke (Québec) Tel.:
819-565-7646 Fax.: 819-565-7844
[email protected] Claude Roy,
directeurLUNDI January 8, 2007, from 10 am to 14 pm
Burial in the cemetery provided Saint-Michel de Sherbrooke
 

elliottness

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Hey everyone,

I have been in contact with someone at the Canadian Medical Hall of Fame. I told her about Jock and Jane Done and mentioned Dr. Fortier possibly being the father of Jock. She told me that regrettably the organization's record keeping in its early years is sorely lacking. However, she does know that at some point Dr. Fortier was at the Université de Laval, Faculté de medicine. She doesn't have a contact there, but she suggested that we try looking on the Internet for the dean's office and e-mailing. Unfortunately, this is a primarily French university and her French is limited to reading it at best.

She did say that if she came across any more helpful information she will certainly let me know. She also asked if there is something about the case on the Internet that she could further explore herself. It would be helpful when she's asking around. I provided her with links to the Doe Network website and information about the case. I gave her the links and mentioned how reportedly Jacques/Jock was the son of a prominent doctor in Canada who had disowned him, etc.

Let's all keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best!
 

justthinkin

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elliott, one of the articles only mentioned that he was the son of a doctor, claiming nothing about him being the son of a prominent doctor. Just something to keep in mind, and something I found out later, after first reading about him being the son of a famous doctor.

It would be good to know if we could find out, which article appeared first.
 

elliottness

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elliott, one of the articles only mentioned that he was the son of a doctor, claiming nothing about him being the son of a prominent doctor. Just something to keep in mind, and something I found out later, after first reading about him being the son of a famous doctor.

It would be good to know if we could find out, which article appeared first.
That's not what it says on The Doe Network website. They said that the guy from the KOA campgrounds told authorities that "Jock" told him that he was the son of a prominent doctor in Canada who disowned him for abandoning a medical career. Either way, I wouldn't be shortsighted to only look at prominent doctors in Canada from that time period or later. I'm going to continue to pursue this aggressively and make some phone calls, send some e-mails, etc. Will keep you posted!
 

WildHeart

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Mmmmmm... What if JPF stands for the Jewis Peace Fellowship? The KKK could've offed this couple for that reason alone, and wouldn't lose any sleep over it........
Just sayin'.......

Did you all realize that the Star Linde Sapphire is a synthetic stone, still a bit more expensive for most back in the day, however the stone itself has a meaning of joyful devotion to God, so it could be a symbol of religion that Jock Doe was wearing.....
And JPF is the signature of a Navajo Indian artist that makes jewelry(among other art) wasn't the female wearing "Indian" style jewelry? Maybe they bought it (the ring) from a reservation when she bought her jewelry, IDK!
Just my brain thinking of different scenarios.

Did anyone ever know or say for sure what this couple stayed in at the KOA?

There aren't any records confirming that they stayed there and only 1 witness apparently can remember them being there, and that witness was the boyfriend of someone said to be an employee there at the time. No details on what the employee girlfriend remembered or any other personnel working at the campground at the time remembered about them. So forget about what they stayed in at the KOA, there's not even any confirmation that they did stay there at all.
 

shadowangel

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I've had an interest in this case from my first days with Websleuths. I think everyone has done an excellent job of pulling together the known and knowable facts of the case, so I've gone far off the edge into the realm of speculation as to why these two may have been where they were, and why no one has looked for them in all these many years.

In doing so, I decided to look at this in the framework of the time, the mid-70s. Why might a young couple be travelling, and why might their disappearance have gone unnoticed? The mid-70s were still a time of turmoil for the youth of this country (and by youth, I include those in their early twenties and maybe even older, considering the disillusionment still in place following the Viet Nam War). Cults were popping up all over the place...Jim Jones' Peoples Temple, which commited mass suicide in 1978; the Unification Church; the Hare Krishnas; and dozens of others that were pulling in people from all walks of life at the time.
I believe I posted at some time or the other information I discovered in a NC paper (the Gastonia Gazette, 09-19-76, to be exact) in which it was stated that a mechanic in York, NB (one of the locations of Grant's Truck Stop), told police he believed the photo of "Jock" was a man who had stopped in for repair to his auto. The vehicle had plates from the Northwest, either WA or OR. For some reason, that bit of info has stuck with me. When that happens, I have to either pursue it as far as possible or give myself a do-it-yourself lobotomy.
So, I went searching for missing persons from the Northwest in late '75 through early '76. I came upon numerous reports of a group of people, approximately 24, who all disappeared from the town of Waldport OR in October of '75. Now, groups of two dozen people dont just go poof for no particular reason...As further investigation on my part would reveal, these individuals had left behind 'all their worldly possessions' to follow a middle-age couple known only as "Her" and "Him" (catchy, huh). Together, the two were known as..."The Two". They were teaching and preaching to anyone who would listen that they were in contact with spiritual alien beings who had shown them how to move beyond this earthly plane and join the aliens in their paradise. They were the leaders of a group known as the "Human Individual Metamorphosis" who had been investigated for fraud in the San Francisco area earlier in the year. The Two then took their show on the road, along with dozens of dedicated followers. They proceeded to bring together more and more followers as they travelled the northwest, then proceeding to Colorado, and further south to the NM-AZ area (where it was reported they may have had as many as 300 followers).
News reports related that some followers were departing the group, but one former member stated that the group was still gathering new members.
A report in the Lebanon (PA) Daily News from late October '75 told of a gathering of members in a park north of Chicago. A park ranger stated that the group, some 50 to 70 strong, were "clean, neat and well-behaved". Vehicles carried plates from OR, WA, CO, TX, AZ and Canada.
As late as December '76, the group were still recruiting members in the Bay area in CA.

As an example of how members could "disappear", one of the group's members was John "Mickey" Craig. A standout athlete in college, Craig was a wealthy land developer in CO in late '75. At the age of 41, he left a note for his wife and six children and simply vanished. Reports from February '76 indicated that his parents were still trying to contact him. His children finally met with him, for the last and only time, in late '77. Then, Craig seemingly boarded a ship and met with his alien benefactors.

That is, until 1997. In that year, Craig's whereabouts for some 20 years were finally revealed. He had been a devoted follower of Him and Her, continuing their teachings as The Two dealt with more earthbound issues...Like numerous charges of fraud, theft and other activities.
"Her", also known as "Peep", was in reality Bonnie Lu Nettles.
"Him", also known as "Bo", was in fact Marshall Applewhite. Applewhite, along with Craig and other followers, commited mass suicide in San Diego in order to board a spaceship following the Hale-Bopp Comet. The group was then known as Heaven's Gate.

Do I think that Jock and Jane Doe may have been involved with a cult, like Heaven's Gate? I think its one possibility. Members of the group, at that time known as the "Great Lost UFO Cult", always travelled in pairs, male and female, adopting single-word names. They were reported to be neat, clean, well-groomed and well-behaved.

Again, I simply offer this up as food for thought. It offers another set of answers to a few of the mysteries surrounding the life and final days of this couple.
 

MaryLiz

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I've had an interest in this case from my first days with Websleuths. I think everyone has done an excellent job of pulling together the known and knowable facts of the case, so I've gone far off the edge into the realm of speculation as to why these two may have been where they were, and why no one has looked for them in all these many years.

In doing so, I decided to look at this in the framework of the time, the mid-70s. Why might a young couple be travelling, and why might their disappearance have gone unnoticed? The mid-70s were still a time of turmoil for the youth of this country (and by youth, I include those in their early twenties and maybe even older, considering the disillusionment still in place following the Viet Nam War). Cults were popping up all over the place...Jim Jones' Peoples Temple, which commited mass suicide in 1978; the Unification Church; the Hare Krishnas; and dozens of others that were pulling in people from all walks of life at the time.
I believe I posted at some time or the other information I discovered in a NC paper (the Gastonia Gazette, 09-19-76, to be exact) in which it was stated that a mechanic in York, NB (one of the locations of Grant's Truck Stop), told police he believed the photo of "Jock" was a man who had stopped in for repair to his auto. The vehicle had plates from the Northwest, either WA or OR. For some reason, that bit of info has stuck with me. When that happens, I have to either pursue it as far as possible or give myself a do-it-yourself lobotomy.
So, I went searching for missing persons from the Northwest in late '75 through early '76. I came upon numerous reports of a group of people, approximately 24, who all disappeared from the town of Waldport OR in October of '75. Now, groups of two dozen people dont just go poof for no particular reason...As further investigation on my part would reveal, these individuals had left behind 'all their worldly possessions' to follow a middle-age couple known only as "Her" and "Him" (catchy, huh). Together, the two were known as..."The Two". They were teaching and preaching to anyone who would listen that they were in contact with spiritual alien beings who had shown them how to move beyond this earthly plane and join the aliens in their paradise. They were the leaders of a group known as the "Human Individual Metamorphosis" who had been investigated for fraud in the San Francisco area earlier in the year. The Two then took their show on the road, along with dozens of dedicated followers. They proceeded to bring together more and more followers as they travelled the northwest, then proceeding to Colorado, and further south to the NM-AZ area (where it was reported they may have had as many as 300 followers).
News reports related that some followers were departing the group, but one former member stated that the group was still gathering new members.
A report in the Lebanon (PA) Daily News from late October '75 told of a gathering of members in a park north of Chicago. A park ranger stated that the group, some 50 to 70 strong, were "clean, neat and well-behaved". Vehicles carried plates from OR, WA, CO, TX, AZ and Canada.
As late as December '76, the group were still recruiting members in the Bay area in CA.

As an example of how members could "disappear", one of the group's members was John "Mickey" Craig. A standout athlete in college, Craig was a wealthy land developer in CO in late '75. At the age of 41, he left a note for his wife and six children and simply vanished. Reports from February '76 indicated that his parents were still trying to contact him. His children finally met with him, for the last and only time, in late '77. Then, Craig seemingly boarded a ship and met with his alien benefactors.

That is, until 1997. In that year, Craig's whereabouts for some 20 years were finally revealed. He had been a devoted follower of Him and Her, continuing their teachings as The Two dealt with more earthbound issues...Like numerous charges of fraud, theft and other activities.
"Her", also known as "Peep", was in reality Bonnie Lu Nettles.
"Him", also known as "Bo", was in fact Marshall Applewhite. Applewhite, along with Craig and other followers, commited mass suicide in San Diego in order to board a spaceship following the Hale-Bopp Comet. The group was then known as Heaven's Gate.

Do I think that Jock and Jane Doe may have been involved with a cult, like Heaven's Gate? I think its one possibility. Members of the group, at that time known as the "Great Lost UFO Cult", always travelled in pairs, male and female, adopting single-word names. They were reported to be neat, clean, well-groomed and well-behaved.

Again, I simply offer this up as food for thought. It offers another set of answers to a few of the mysteries surrounding the life and final days of this couple.

Interesting theory, shadowangel. It's anybody's guess if they were involved in a cult. There certainly was no shortage of cults in the 1970s.

I still remember that tip from York, Nebraska in the Gastonia Gazette and, in fact, I've been searching through the missing from the area of the Pacific Northwest from that time period recently myself. So far I've found nothing, of course.

You posted before that you might have Lonnie Henry's son's obit in your files. Did you ever find it? I copied the post below. It's on Thread #2 of the Mystery Couple, page 11, post 259 from last August. If you find it I'd love it if you could post it on here. I've been searching newspaperarchives.com for any obits from the Henry family and have come up empty so far.

I'm glad to see you posting on this thread again.

Mary Beth


shadowangel said:
I have the son's obit somewhere in my notes (Lonnie George Henry Jr). His wife passed away in 2002.
 

JaneInOz

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Im just doing the photos of Jane And Jock doe side by side of all the photos out there on the net of them for comparison in the other thread - as asked by ML

And I remembered this thread that I had posted before
http://translate.google.com.au/tran...refox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=Vf7

Not sure if any one read it ?

Its a translated page from somewhere else

There is a photo in there of the opening of the graves etc

Anyway I hadnt remembered reading this about Jock

. The face, he had two small birth mark on the left side and one right side.

Not sure if the article means HE did or SHE did (referring to moles)

but then also this

The man had brown hair and brown silmät.Miehellä was the left hand with a few scars.


From this link I also got this article
http://www.theitem.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/ITNEWS01/108090148

It may have been posted before but cant hurt to re look at

Also on the first link it is interesting to note that someone there also brings up the idea of cults so your idea is not so out of the box others also think along those lines in Finland LOL
 

Mysterylover

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Im just doing the photos of Jane And Jock doe side by side of all the photos out there on the net of them for comparison in the other thread - as asked by ML

And I remembered this thread that I had posted before
http://translate.google.com.au/tran...refox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=Vf7

Not sure if any one read it ?

Its a translated page from somewhere else

There is a photo in there of the opening of the graves etc

Anyway I hadnt remembered reading this about Jock

. The face, he had two small birth mark on the left side and one right side.

Not sure if the article means HE did or SHE did (referring to moles)

but then also this

The man had brown hair and brown silmät.Miehellä was the left hand with a few scars.


From this link I also got this article
http://www.theitem.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/ITNEWS01/108090148

It may have been posted before but cant hurt to re look at

Also on the first link it is interesting to note that someone there also brings up the idea of cults so your idea is not so out of the box others also think along those lines in Finland LOL........

JaneInOz..Good articles. I learned a bit more about the couple by reading the 2 articles, thanks..I learned silmät means eyes, but what does Miehellä mean about his hand??

I noticed David B. had told LE the girl had a large suitcase and Jock had a lot of cash...
Quote:
The police assumed that the victims were Canadian, foreign tourists. Studies, and was assisted by Interpol, the border authorities, however, it is possible to demonstrate that the victims were foreigners. Dental maps was not possible to clarify the identity of the victims.
The police assumed that he had been in some stage Floridassa.

Yksi eye-witness said that he had met the couple is likely close to the campsite, a woman was involved in a large suitcase.

The man was involved in a bigger amount of cash, however, he had wanted to sell the ring.

The man had told the witness that he is Canadian and her father is a doctor, with whom their intervals are poor because the man does not want to study to be a doctor. That lausonnon veracity is not known.....
 

JaneInOz

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I apologize if this has been mentioned before, but I found this site on the Internet which mentions a missing Canadian couple: http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightCanada/index.php?showtopic=2557

The woman's name is Terry Pettit and reportedly she was spotted with another man. If this man was Jacques/Jock, could his name be Jacques Pettit?

Ive got the couple in my picture album on here

It isn't them

Sorry. ( I also thought when I read about them it could be them but they are too different)
 

JaneInOz

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elliottness: Interesting article..
After reading page 1 and 2 and learning he was a school teacher, and she was a journalists, I'm inclined to suspect these people could be our Jock & Jane Doe..

Hi ML its not them here is the photo

picture.php
 

Mysterylover

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Mysterylover

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JaneInOz..Sadly, You are correct. There's no chance the woman is our Jane Doe...so this couple is ruled out...and our search goes on....:boohoo:
 
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