Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #7 Pam Buckley & James P Freund

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ntt1

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Oracle results are far from definitive, unfortunately... as I said before, I know someone who is over half French-Canadian and yet his actual French population result is the second lowest on the list of populations he has genetic ties to... sometimes it can seem accurate and other times it's vague and more confusing than helpful. My personal results, for instance, don't make a ton of sense in terms of the degree of relatedness to certain populations, especially compared to my Ancestry results. That said, yeah there is no reason to believe that the Sumter Does have Jewish heritage.

If the Oracle results for Jane and Jock Doe are accurate to some degree then it would seem likely that their olive-toned complexions come from having genetic ties to Spain and/or Italy; specific areas of Spain are highlighted in both of their results. Jock in particular definitely looks like he could be Spanish.
Yeah... I think if anything the Oracle results in conjunction with the pie chart could at best be used to rule certain possibilities out (i.e., Ashkenazi Jewish, Middle Eastern, African American).

But who knows, they/one of them could have been adopted too.
 

Ozoner

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Yeah... I think if anything the Oracle results in conjunction with the pie chart could at best be used to rule certain possibilities out (i.e., Ashkenazi Jewish, Middle Eastern, African American).

But who knows, they/one of them could have been adopted too.
It's anyone's guess. It's even possible that one of them didn't have the father that he or she thought.

Surprise! 1-in-25 Dads Not the Real Father
 

leilarose68

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I dont go by the Oracle, my own Oracle are a bit of guesswork as well. It gets even worse when you do the mixed population mode. Its all statistics.

However, I primarily go by the piechart and first estimate with general geographic populations, not nationalities. And this imho clearly points to a non Hispanic/Latinx heritage. Very Northern European/British Isles plus a bit of continent.
I dont hold by the Argentina theory at all.

I haven't seen anyone express that they think the Sumter Does are primarily hispanic/latino since their pie charts and oracle results came out
 

Sherwood Park

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Speaking as someone who's Ashkenazi Jewish, my heritage looks very different.

View attachment 267882
You can see the "Red Sea/West Asian", which makes up about 15% of mine. If Jock had Ashkenazi ancestry, it would probably show up with one of those on his Admixture pie chart, or somewhere in the 'Least-squares method' chart.
View attachment 267883

Thanks for sharing this. I didn't realize these tests broke "Jewish" down by country. Very strange.
My point in throwing Jewish into the guessing pot was also to move away from only suspecting that Jacques is only French-Canadian. My suggestion is that even if he were from Canada, he might not be French-Canadian and could be part of a different ethnic community. I still find it strange that he and Jane doe have such similar test results, which means they might belong to an ethnic community that they identify with within Canada. I'm just not sure what some of those communities might be.

I'm also not sure if guessing their ethnicity by their photos is helpful anymore. At one point it was thought they looked Latino.

I'm also not sure what I think anymore :D:D:D, so many possibilities.
 

Andreee

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As a Canadian, I would say that if Jock Doe is from Canada, it is more likely that his name would be Jacques rather than Jock. Jock is not the type of name that one would have in 1970s Canada.

In Canada Jock is also a slang word for a male athlete.

As a Canadian as well, I agree that the name would be Jacque or Jacques if he is from Canada, rather than Jock. I don't ever hear the name Jock here, and certainly not in Quebec.
 

Susikatze

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And J-P on his ring could be a bunch of French name combinations (Jean Pierre, Jacques Paul etc.) which may be consistent with French Canada. But it could as well be an English name with second name, fairly common in the States. Like eg Jack Parson F... or whatever you like.
Also sort of a red herring, sadly. Can be anything.
 

Brainy

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So the DNA Doe Project has been working on identifying our Does for a while now. It’s discouraging to think they haven’t been identified yet. I hope they have enough samples and info out there to finally identify them!
 

Susikatze

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It takes a while for them to get matches. They get more after each update. Last week when I checked, Jane had top matches in the 70s (CMs), which is not amazing but a nice start and he had lower, I believe only in 30s or 40s. It will likely go up the longer they are in. Time is the key.

Side note, I checked my own Gedmatch and aside from my parents I only score matches in the 30s, which is roughly a common ancestor about 3-4 generations back. If I was an UID, it would be tricky to identify me via Gedmatch.

It may point to them not being American, despite them being of Anglo and Middle European descent, (the Canadian theory pops up again in my mind), as US Americans are overrepresented in genealogy databases vs all other countries. If you are not US American, you will always have less matches.
 

Brainy

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It takes a while for them to get matches. They get more after each update. Last week when I checked, Jane had top matches in the 70s (CMs), which is not amazing but a nice start and he had lower, I believe only in 30s or 40s. It will likely go up the longer they are in. Time is the key.

Side note, I checked my own Gedmatch and aside from my parents I only score matches in the 30s, which is roughly a common ancestor about 3-4 generations back. If I was an UID, it would be tricky to identify me via Gedmatch.

It may point to them not being American, despite them being of Anglo and Middle European descent, (the Canadian theory pops up again in my mind), as US Americans are overrepresented in genealogy databases vs all other countries. If you are not US American, you will always have less matches.

Yes. Agreed. It is so much harder to find info of people from other countries. I would say that the US has a phenomenal record-keeping system which has become even more advanced with the growth of technology.
 

Susikatze

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And lastly, dont forget that many Does lost up to 90% of their Gedmatch matches after the privacy policy update in 2019.

And if you look at the full picture, only people who are interested in more advanced genealogy would upload their raw DNA file to Gedmatch, this is also a fraction of all tests made.

So all in all, if a persons whole family represents 100%, maybe 5% of those do a DNA test with a big company such as ftdna or ancestry or 23andme and from those again only a small fraction uploads those to Gedmatch. And from those, the biggest part is not opted in. We are looking at maybe 1-2% of all a persons relatives if we look at Gedmatch matches.
And certain ethnic groups are proportionally less likely to do DNA tests than others (e.g. African Americans who are grossly underrepresented vs. e.g. American Ashkenazi Jews who are usually overrepresented). Also adds to it.

If you know that, it is actually incredible that so many cases can be solved via Gedmatch matches.
 
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leilarose68

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And lastly, dont forget that many Does lost up to 90% of their Gedmatch matches after the privacy policy update in 2019.

And if you look at the full picture, only people who are interested in more advanced genealogy would upload their raw DNA file to Gedmatch, this is also a fraction of all tests made.

So all in all, if a persons whole family represents 100%, maybe 5% of those do a DNA test with a big company such as ftdna or ancestry or 23andme and from those again only a small fraction uploads those to Gedmatch. And from those, the biggest part is not opted in. We are looking at maybe 1-2% of all a persons relatives if we look at Gedmatch matches.
And certain ethnic groups are proportionally less likely to do DNA tests than others (e.g. African Americans who are grossly underrepresented vs. e.g. American Ashkenazi Jews who are usually overrepresented). Also adds to it.

If you know that, it is actually incredible that so many cases can be solved via Gedmatch matches.


Luckily FTDNA also allows their database to be used by law enforcement and groups like DNA Doe Project. So DDP actually uses both FTDNA and GEDMatch for their cases.

DNA Doe Project facebook post

And this article:
DNA Doe Project IDs 2004 Jane Doe in 48 Hours

“On many of our cases, there are no close matches so we have to use a second database—FTDNA—to find more matches,” Binder explained. “For this case, there was no need to use FTDNA. It goes to show that even with the changes that impacted the GEDmatch database in 2019, we are still able to utilize it to solve cases.”
 
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Giuc0

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Giuc0

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He is too busy. He is swamped with French nationals in need of help because of Covid19.

He told me to see with the Argentinian embassy in France.

Back to square 1!

And he takes care only of French nationals. So....
 

Awsi Dooger

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Probably doesn't mean anything but I noticed the number of new matches rose to more normal level in this update, given their total number of matches.

Previously both were strangely low in that regard, given more than 1000 matches apiece. This time the new matches were 25 for Jane and 16 for Jock. That's range where it should be, on average. The prior updates were only 9-6 and 9-9.
 

MadMcGoo

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Thank you all for your input regarding the DNA results. That’s all very Greek to me! Pun intended. :D

That being said, even though it’s taken awhile to get to where they are, I’m very impressed with how far DDP has come considering what they started with! It seems as though things are only getting better, albeit slow going. I’m hopeful we’ll see them identified in the not too distant future!

Thank you all for everything you do!
 

Coffeelover

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If they have German/Austrian DNA it might be difficult to find relatives since doing home-based DNA testing is/was not available in Germany, last I checked though it appears that Germany is now on the list of countries that Ancestry sells kits too. I have asked on the Ancestry message boards about my lack of German matches, though my great-grandfather was from there, and I was told not to expect many.
 
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