Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #7 Pam Buckley & James P Freund

[Betty P]

You can find your common ancestor because your family tree is probably complete at least a few generations back and so are the other people's. We'll have to hope that Jane's strongest match knows his or her family tree.

And again, 4 matches with greater than 40 centimorgans is a low number. Look to see how many you have. I'll bet you a nickel you have more than 4.

I'm confident they'll be able to find the common ancestors for this couple and trace their connections to identify them. Genealogists use more tools than DNA and other people's family trees to research their family history. Birth and death certificates, census records, military, school, probate and other records are also research tools.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

The number of matches that Jock and Jane have with at least 40 cm in common is on the low side. That makes me think that they may not be Americans or, if they are, their roots in the US may not go back very far.

I noticed the same type of thing. There definitely is some difference from the norm. I don't know much about DNA research but I have 35+ years background with numerical databases. When the new update was posted on Thursday I immediately noted that Jock and Jane had a comparatively low number of new matches since the last update.

I'll allow the numbers to speak for themselves. These are the number of new matches in the September 22 update, for any Doe with an entering number of at least 900 matches:

36
12
29
43
21
44
12
28
26
11
38
72
71
33
34
21
96
30
27
9
47
29
9
6
64
18

Only 3 single digit entries. They are Peter Kalama Lane Jane Doe with 9, Sumter County Jane Doe with 9, and Sumter County Jock Doe with 6.

However, Peter Kalama Lane Jane Doe's chart may have a glitch. The number of new cases goes up by exactly 9 each week. It has been a reported jump of exactly 9 all 5 weeks since the case was added. However, that 9 does not jive with the variance in total cases from week to week. It has gone up by as few as 5, and as many as 24, even though new cases reportedly is 9. For example, total number rose from 1052 to 1070 in the recent update, but the indication is difference of 9. Maybe DNA Doe Project can take a look at that.

Regardless, I would guess some variance from the norm is causing the low number of close matches for the Sumter County Does, amidst cases with high number of total matches. Maybe Ozoner is correct in estimating non-American, or shallow roots. I was thinking it could be a family or two with massive number of entries within the system...relatives but not close relatives. But that makes more sense if it were isolated to one of the Sumter Does, and not both of them, since they are not related.

Maybe someone has an idea of greatest commonality for cases with high number of total matches but not many close matches.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

And again, 4 matches with greater than 40 centimorgans is a low number. Look to see how many you have. I'll bet you a nickel you have more than 4.

To demonstrate the uphill nature of this pursuit, the median number of >40 cM matches among active cases is 4. I took a look at that tonight after seeing your post. There are almost exactly as many cases above 4 as below 4, with a few pushes.

 

[CJH]

I noticed the same type of thing. There definitely is some difference from the norm. I don't know much about DNA research but I have 35+ years background with numerical databases. When the new update was posted on Thursday I immediately noted that Jock and Jane had a comparatively low number of new matches since the last update.

The most likely reason for this is that they are from a population not well represented in GEDmatch; my experience of genetic genealogy databases is that the vast majority of testers are in the USA, and the longer one's ancestors have been in North America, the more matches one has. If you're a descendant of relatively recent immigrants to the US ("relatively recent" being post-Civil War, generally) then you will have far fewer matches; also a factor is that only kits opted in for visibility to law enforcement will show up, I think (which limits the pool of available matches). GEDmatch cuts off at 7cM for displaying total matches; the default maximum you can see is 3000. I have 3000, but the lowest shared cM total I see is 12.6 so there are probably a large number of matches below that threshold I'm not seeing.

 

[Ozoner]

I'm confident they'll be able to find the common ancestors for this couple and trace their connections to identify them. Genealogists use more tools than DNA and other people's family trees to research their family history. Birth and death certificates, census records, military, school, probate and other records are also research tools.

I'm familiar with all of those tools, but many of them would have limited applicability in this case.
For instance, the most recent US census publicly available is the 1940 census, and Jane and Jock weren't born yet in 1940. The most recent Canadian census that's publicly available is from 1921. Most birth certificates don't become public records for about 100 years (give or take, depending on the state).

With most genealogical research, you have a name to start with, and you're trying to work backwards. This is a far more challenging situation. Take a look at the DNA Doe Project entry for Jonesport John Doe. He's been in their system for almost a year, and he has 318 matches with greater that 40 cM, with the strongest match having 84.9 cM in common. They still haven't solved his case. I do think that they'll be able to solve that one eventually, but I am certainly not optimistic that Jane and Jock's cases will be solved any time soon. We may get there eventually. I think the best hope would be that DNA Doe Project can track down Jane's closest match and try to get more of that person's family members to upload DNA (to figure out which parent is the link, etc.).

 

[leilarose68]

I'm familiar with all of those tools, but many of them would have limited applicability in this case.
For instance, the most recent US census publicly available is the 1940 census, and Jane and Jock weren't born yet in 1940. The most recent Canadian census that's publicly available is from 1921. Most birth certificates don't become public records for about 100 years (give or take, depending on the state).

With most genealogical research, you have a name to start with, and you're trying to work backwards. This is a far more challenging situation. Take a look at the DNA Doe Project entry for Jonesport John Doe. He's been in their system for almost a year, and he has 318 matches with greater that 40 cM, with the strongest match having 84.9 cM in common. They still haven't solved his case. I do think that they'll be able to solve that one eventually, but I am certainly not optimistic that Jane and Jock's cases will be solved any time soon. We may get there eventually. I think the best hope would be that DNA Doe Project can track down Jane's closest match and try to get more of that person's family members to upload DNA (to figure out which parent is the link, etc.).

DDP has said that they have solved 40 cases which means that 12 cases currently in the "Active" section are actually solved but have not been confirmed or announced yet for different reasons (including due to Covid because law enforcement can't travel as easily to visit the decedent's family). There is a good possibility IMO that Jonesport is among those identified (given his excellent matches) but not openly identified yet. So some cases might not have taken as long to be solved as we think which complicates speculation about cM and how long it takes to identify Does.

I really hope that Sumter Jane Doe's family knew about Jock; hopefully her family could give Jock's name so his genealogy wouldn't even have to be worked on too much.

 

[AliceInPain]

Doesn't matter how many matches, depends WHO are the matches.
Look at some of the solves. And look at one going from low matches one week to a close relative the next.

 

[ntt1]

DDP has said that they have solved 40 cases which means that 12 cases currently in the "Active" section are actually solved but have not been confirmed or announced yet for different reasons (including due to Covid because law enforcement can't travel as easily to visit the decedent's family). There is a good possibility IMO that Jonesport is among those identified (given his excellent matches) but not openly identified yet. So some cases might not have taken as long to be solved as we think which complicates speculation about cM and how long it takes to identify Does.

I really hope that Sumter Jane Doe's family knew about Jock; hopefully her family could give Jock's name so his genealogy wouldn't even have to be worked on too much.

For reference, according to the news articles on Butler John Doe 1997 (the latest announcement), his case appears to have been solved late last year, after being solved within hours after a close match on FTDNA. So I definitely think you are right.

I'm wondering if both Jock and Jane's matches are concentrated on a certain geographical area. That might make the searching easier (or more difficult, if there is endogamy). Hopefully time will tell and they will be solved within the next year. It's been far too long.

 

[AliceInPain]

I noticed the same type of thing. There definitely is some difference from the norm. I don't know much about DNA research but I have 35+ years background with numerical databases. When the new update was posted on Thursday I immediately noted that Jock and Jane had a comparatively low number of new matches since the last update.

I'll allow the numbers to speak for themselves. These are the number of new matches in the September 22 update, for any Doe with an entering number of at least 900 matches:

36
12
29
43
21
44
12
28
26
11
38
72
71
33

(sbm)
Keep in mind those are not actual matches, but matches who have "opted in" (deliberately clicked the button to let LE use their data.) And also, many people handle several DNA kits.
Their matches are not their actual # of matches but people who have opted in because 1. They follow true crime 2. They are personally affected by crime or a missing person 3. They are just good people who saw the news and thought hey why not.

With that in mind, how would you read the numbers?
My thought is they are from a low crime, non-urban area (with free access and use of the internet, but maybe not commonly used.)

Anywho, I think we shouldn't get too depressed or obsessed about the Gedmatch numbers, as DDP use FTdna as well. I have 7 matches on Gedmatch over 40cM and on MyHeritage 400+ matches over 40cM. FTdna has even more users.

 

[Laughing]

Yes, genealogists have many tools. Researchers are already tracking those matches and collecting bits & pieces of information.

The matches' names are included in obituaries -- lots of family relationships listed there, and towns & cities for further newspaper searches.

Yes indeed, the US Federal Census is a great tool, but not the only tool. To the extent that these researchers work with LE, there is records access that many genealogists lack.

No experience with Canadian research, but great confidence in this process!

Patience, though. The steps are sure but can be slow.

JMHO YMMV LRR

 

[kittenmoon]

The relatively lower number of total dna matches for these does leads me to believe they are less likely to be French-Canadian. My grandmother is 1/2 French-Canadian and has so many matches from that community (due to endogamy in part?). Hope that makes sense and total conjecture on my part.

 

[Ozoner]

The relatively lower number of total dna matches for these does leads me to believe they are less likely to be French-Canadian. My grandmother is 1/2 French-Canadian and has so many matches from that community (due to endogamy in part?). Hope that makes sense and total conjecture on my part.

There are different francophone communities in Canada. The Acadians who settled around Nova Scotia and New Brunswick may not be as well represented in the databases as the so-called French Canadians in Quebec and elsewhere, for instance. There are 7.2 million French speakers in Canada, but only 500,000 of them are Acadians (about 7%).

This is a list of Acadian surnames beginning with F:

Fabre
Fardel
Faucheux
Ferel
Fillaut
Fizel
Flan
Fleury
Foght
Follet
Fontaine
Forant
Forest
Foret
Foucault
Fouet
Fougère
Fournel
Fournier
Fourre
Franc
France
François
Franquet
Frecaut
Fretel
Fricourt
Froiquingont
Fromant
Fumoleau
Fuselier

(From Acadian Surnames )

There are 31 names on that list; I wonder whether one of them belongs to Jacques.

 

[ntt1]

There are also Francophone communities in Northern Ontario and along the Ottawa Valley, as well as other small towns in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba.

 

[DNA_Sleuth]

"
Only 3 single digit entries. They are Peter Kalama Lane Jane Doe with 9, Sumter County Jane Doe with 9, and Sumter County Jock Doe with 6.

However, Peter Kalama Lane Jane Doe's chart may have a glitch. The number of new cases goes up by exactly 9 each week. It has been a reported jump of exactly 9 all 5 weeks since the case was added. However, that 9 does not jive with the variance in total cases from week to week. It has gone up by as few as 5, and as many as 24, even though new cases reportedly is 9. For example, total number rose from 1052 to 1070 in the recent update, but the indication is difference of 9. Maybe DNA Doe Project can take a look at that.

Peter's sheet was missing a calculation! Thanks for catching that!

 

[Chantal]

There are different francophone communities in Canada. The Acadians who settled around Nova Scotia and New Brunswick may not be as well represented in the databases as the so-called French Canadians in Quebec and elsewhere, for instance. There are 7.2 million French speakers in Canada, but only 500,000 of them are Acadians (about 7%).

This is a list of Acadian surnames beginning with F:

Fabre
Fardel
Faucheux
Ferel
Fillaut
Fizel
Flan
Fleury
Foght
Follet
Fontaine
Forant
Forest
Foret
Foucault
Fouet
Fougère
Fournel
Fournier
Fourre
Franc
France
François
Franquet
Frecaut
Fretel
Fricourt
Froiquingont
Fromant
Fumoleau
Fuselier

(From Acadian Surnames )

There are 31 names on that list; I wonder whether one of them belongs to Jacques.

and first name corresponding to JP with Jacques are fewer:

1. Jacques-Alexandre
2. Jacques-Antoine
3. Jacques-Édouard
4. Jacques-Étienne
5. Jacques-Henri
6. Jacques-Olivier
7. Jacques-Pierre ****
8. Jacques-Yves

I am still browing old newspapers, looking for birth of sons from proeminent doctors, nothing so far...

 

[Ozoner]

and first name corresponding to JP with Jacques are fewer:

1. Jacques-Alexandre
2. Jacques-Antoine
3. Jacques-Édouard
4. Jacques-Étienne
5. Jacques-Henri
6. Jacques-Olivier
7. Jacques-Pierre ****
8. Jacques-Yves

I am still browing old newspapers, looking for birth of sons from proeminent doctors, nothing so far...

You also have to decide what "prominent" means. A doctor could be prominent in a small town provincial area and be completely unknown outside of the vicinity—a big fish in a small pond.

 

[Chantal]

You also have to decide what "prominent" means. A doctor could be prominent in a small town provincial area and be completely unknown outside of the vicinity—a big fish in a small pond.

I am consulting old newspapers from different regions of the province of Quebec, in those days they reported a lot about doctors (wedding, birth of their children, and necrology) and catholic priests.
I figured if the doctor is proeminent, he will be in the society sections of those newspapers. Who knows...

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Peter's sheet was missing a calculation! Thanks for catching that!

You are welcome. I've looked at so many data sheets over the decades it's fairly easy to spot something out of whack.

Of course, most of the time I'm discovering my own flub.

 

[kittenmoon]

Yes that makes sense re: various communities.

Canada origins do seem likely, especially from what Jock reportedly said.

The French-Canadian ancestors of grandmother, whom I mentioned earlier, were Acadians for what it is worth. Her E-K13 looks like Jane’s E-K13, except my grandma’s has slightly more East Med and Baltic with less North Atlantic.

 

[canteloupe]

I am consulting old newspapers from different regions of the province of Quebec, in those days they reported a lot about doctors (wedding, birth of their children, and necrology) and catholic priests.
I figured if the doctor is proeminent, he will be in the society sections of those newspapers. Who knows...

I had done some digging a while back and, if I recall correctly, I’d seen some promise in a dentist in the T-R area. I was limited by my archival resources, but believe I could not account for the whereabouts of one said dentist’s sons. A compounding problem was that the son shared a name with a politician, which muddied the search waters. The furthest I got with my search was tracing this guy to the Poli student newspaper, but lost him after that. I am so excited that you have access to a greater diversity than I did and eager to hear about your hunt.

In recent months, I’ve looked at the Dirty War angle, as that has been one of my professional fields of study. I think you’d find a rather similar admixture for Argentines, as migration from E. Europe and non-Med. countries exploded from 1880-1920. Chile, as well, but to a lesser extent. Based on population size alone, it would be more statistically likely for him to be Argentine.

In terms of exile paths, any metropolitan area or city with a university were popular destinations. Several Canadian universities took advantage of scholars-in-residence programs to justify the arrival and extended stay of people fleeing the Southern Cone dictatorships. This is most certainly true for McGill and UMontreal.

This said, I think this explanation is plausible but less probable than that of a couple young people who were never reported missing or have been presumed long dead by family and previous friends.

Nevertheless, I’m still digging and attempting to better understand the way organized crime, decolonizing movements, and ethnic conflicts shaped Quebec during the 1970s and 1980s. I think the similarity in manner of death for many does with presumed Canadian connections is more than sheer coincidence.