Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - Pamela Buckley & James Freund #9

Discussion in 'Mystery couple murdered South Carolina 1976' started by Richard, Oct 4, 2004.

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  1. wary

    wary Well-Known Member

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    Well, the location of the bullet wounds might help someone visualize what happened, which in turn might help to clarify the motivation of the crime, how many people were involved, etc.

    Stretch of road? Only thing I can think of is—visualizing how far from houses they actually were, which might help us understand how much an ‘ear witness’ actually could have heard.

    The general layout of the roads compared to the highway might be important—
     


  2. wary

    wary Well-Known Member

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    I’m confused by this reply. All the talk of tire tracks—from the very start of the reporting—was all false? He’s saying that the victims walked to the location, and then the murderer/s walked away?
     
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  3. Ajaygee11

    Ajaygee11 Semi Retired / Rally Driver / Very Amateur Slueth

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    In my personal opinion, it would be a rather large coincidence that James was found wearing a Camel GT IMSA Series T-Shirt and had not attended the Camel GT IMSA Race that was held that weekend at Talladega. They were found over 1600 Miles away from Colorado Springs, Colorado & over 500 Miles from Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
     
  4. Ajaygee11

    Ajaygee11 Semi Retired / Rally Driver / Very Amateur Slueth

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    So speaking of Rabbit Holes I went down my first Websleuths related one for this case. Because of the alleged “Snoopy Racing Logo” I went looking for a IMSA Series Driver whose nickname might have been Snoopy. I thought it may have been a Team T-Shirt that may link to a race team. I found a driver whose nick name was Snoopy, but he did not race at the Bama 200 IMSA Race on August 7th, 1976, but he was of that era. Then I found an IMSA Corvette sponsored by “Snoopy’s Body Shop”, but it did not have that sponsorship at that race meeting. So it finally dawned on me after looking at all these IMSA Camel GT Cars with the Joe Camel Racing Logo was most likely mistaken for a “Snoopy Racing Logo”. Then I found all of your posts where you guys had already discussed that. Would of been good if I found the posts first .....
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
  5. Vern

    Vern Well-Known Member

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    RSBM,

    The bolded would be a true statement. There was no vehicle, (van or otherwise) in the area. Not when they were found.

    But, there indeed was a vehicle in the area as we have the initial crime scene photos clearly depicting, and stating, that officers were making plaster casts of tire tracks found at the scene of their murder.

    We have the Assistant Coroner in an interview stating they had stepped from the back of a van. When I first posted that interview and statement (from para 1 of the interview) I mused whether or not she had just mistakenly leaked a piece of info that the law had been holding back on (in case of false confessions etc) that only the killer(s)would know. We then speculated that there was probably footprints there too and based on there placement in the dirt the possibilty that investigators knew they stepped out of the back of a "van" (determined to be the vehicle by it's wheel-base perhaps).

    As for her statements on the gunshots, that wound in Pamela's neck doesn't look like an exit wound, it more resembles an entrance wound. Either way, the conference stated they both had exit and entrance wounds. It could have been mistaken back then for the entrance wound or she may have misremembered, but in both cases they have wounds in their necks as well - as seen in the photos.

    (Wow: love her "were they forced into making porn movies" theory -- that's a new one for me.) IMO, nope, they weren't.
     
  6. worm

    worm Well-Known Member

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    @Vern , I was thinking that the wound on her neck was entrance too. I wonder if each victim had similar gun wounds? As if they were shot in the same way.
     
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  7. Valiant

    Valiant Well-Known Member

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    It would be hard to tell just from tire tread castings if there was a van there because vans and light pickup trucks used the same tires as passenger cars. Now things like track width and wheelbase could help determine the type of vehicle.

    But the thing that would make a van (and the statement above more likely) is if the victims' footprints initially were between the tire tracks (exiting from the rear of a van) as opposed to outside the tire tracks (exiting from a car or truck).
     
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  8. branmuffin

    branmuffin Well-Known Member

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    They don't particularly lead to the identity of the murderer but nailing down the specifics of a case rather than setting it up on quicksand can tighten focus on the real issues.
     
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  9. branmuffin

    branmuffin Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he's saying the victims walked to the murder site but that the birth of the idea that the vehicle was a van is not accurate. At least that's how I interpret what he is saying.
     
  10. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    LOL :D I’ve found myself in your shoes many times! But at least we can say we learned something new. There can never be too many eyes on a case. One of us could have easily missed something down that hole that you might have found. I’ve seen that happen too! ;)
     
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  11. worldwatcher

    worldwatcher Well-Known Member

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    I was just checking some labeled threads, about the Sumter couple, and came across the murders of another couple, wich was known (before they were ID - ed, in 2018) as the Michigan Couple.
    "James Hendricks and Kimberlin Mills (known as Jimmy and Kim respectively) are American murder victims who were discovered on June 17, 1978. The pair were believed to have been seen together at a truck stop in Missouri, which is where the murders are presumed to have taken place. Hendricks was left at the crime scene while Mills was found in Mississippi County, Arkansas.[1][2]"
    Murder of Jimmy Hendricks and Kim Mills - Wikipedia

    I only see a thread for Kim Mills here, on WS:
    Identified! - AR - Blytheville, WhtFem 449UFAR, 18-36, 'Kim' tattoo, Jun'78 - Kimberlin Mills
    Does any one know, if there are other threads?
    TIA
     
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  12. wary

    wary Well-Known Member

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    But that’s not at all what he says: “There was no vehicle, van or otherwise” in the area. Since no one has ever, as far as I know, suggested that the vehicle that brought them was left near the scene, what on earth is he saying?
     
  13. worm

    worm Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice if current LE would clear these matters up.
     
  14. branmuffin

    branmuffin Well-Known Member

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    Well, considering there's a photograph of LE taking tire casts on Locklair Rd, right beside where the couple lay dead, I was thinking he meant there was no vehicle, van or otherwise, at the scene of the crime.

    The only other thing I can think of is that, after LE had been advised of the crime scene, word got out and other local curiosity seekers came to the scene before the cops did to check it out. It wouldn't be the first time that happened. If it did, then the scene was compromised and they probably had to exclude different vehicles, leaving them with no viable impressions to use.
     
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  15. MyJoey

    MyJoey Verified Family ~ Joseph “Joey” Ressler III

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    Been following this case for years. I’ve been puzzled by how close together the bodies were. I have always thought this was a drug run, gone bad. I think there was one or two other people involved and they decided to take James and Pamela out, and keep the profits. It’s the only motive that keeps coming to my mind. The car/van most likely belonged to James. Who knows maybe some day we will hear it was found in another state and returned to the family years ago. It would be so interesting to know if either James or Pamela made calls home during the months before their deaths. If they told family where they were and what they were doing. So many unanswered questions......drives me nuts lol.
     
  16. MyJoey

    MyJoey Verified Family ~ Joseph “Joey” Ressler III

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    Absolutely agree. Less then 6 hours from where they were found.
     
  17. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    I was in my greenhouse listening to some 70’s tunes today and I got to thinking.......what if these two knew they were about to be killed? Not like an “assisted suicide” type thing, but they were well aware of their fate.

    No defensive wounds, no signs of a struggle, they were clean, void of most all identifiable possessions, had (by reliable accounts) eaten an enjoyable last meal, all expected possessions unaccounted for...

    Neither left their family any indication of where they were going or what they’d be doing, that we know of. No paper trail...granted this was a time when one would have been harder to create than not.

    I just wonder. I know lots of theories are being thrown around and old “evidence” revisited. But something tells me it’s (the answer) much simpler than we are making it out to be.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
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  18. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger Well-Known Member

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    I hope you aren't taking Even money on that. As a lifelong gambler I'd need at least 10/1 and even then I wouldn't feel comfortable.

    He's more than 300 miles away from Talladega and not even on a logical direct route. If they were coming from Talladega it's much more logical for them to be on I-85 than I-95.

    The shirt reveals specialized interest far beyond likelihood of attending a specific race. It would be one thing if the shirt linked to that weekend and race. Grateful Doe had tickets to a specific Grateful Dead concert at RFK Stadium the weekend before the fatal accident. Sumter John Doe had a shirt not even from the same year let alone the same state or race.

    I couldn't make a leap like that. Always inject normalcy toward clarity. Let's say Pamela and James had lived and we ran into them at that Sumter fruit stand the following day. Would you look at James' shirt and think it was likely he had been at Talladega that weekend?
     
  19. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    I can’t make this up, especially after all my research... he literally could have gotten that shirt months before or after that race...and from more then one location. The odds are against anyone who bets otherwise.
     
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  20. worm

    worm Well-Known Member

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    I think he could have gotten the shirt anywhere too. At any rate, that kind of goes to trying to figure out who he was.
    I was thinking earlier that if this was a lone killer, we would expect a male, probably older than the victims were. He would be at an advanced age, or worse, by now. Unfortunately, this may be someone who isn’t around anymore so a lot of physical evidence will be needed for a chance to prove who killed this couple.
     
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