Discussion in 'Mystery couple murdered South Carolina 1976' started by Richard, Oct 4, 2004.
I am honestly confused how the food in James and Pam's stomachs can't be conclusively confirmed. I'm no expert, but wouldn't ice cream have a different consistency than fruit when digested?
Sadly, we're once again back at square one. We've figured out everything about James and Pam, we've got the photos, we've got a probable sequence of death, but we have no idea where they went, and LE doesn't wish to release that info (which is understood)
Circa 1976 my Mom smoked Kents:
image from vintagepaperads.com
Google is your friend. Cigarette ads were everywhere. TV characters smoked, movie characters smoked.
Cars has ashtrays.
That thing you used for your phone charger was a cigarette lighter:
image from ebay.com
Cigarette commercials were outlawed in 1971, but print media -- magazines & newspapers -- continued.
You youngsters just missed this part of Popular Culture.
Matches meant cigarettes in my part of the universe. IMHO, more likely Army Vet JPF, not professional singer PMB.
jmho ymmv lrr
Can we take a moment to appreciate people from Sumter County who made sure that Pam and James' graves are clean and taken care of all these years? And they did it for complete strangers! I think it's a beautiful lesson of humanity.
Indeed. Whenever I go to cemeteries and visit family members (e.g. my mother, grandparents, etc.) I always place flowers. I even placed flowers for one of Mormon ancestor’s many wives LOL.
Nice post. Very nice. I like it. I used to have to hold the lighter in all the time for my dad while he was driving. Lighters weren’t around like now. There were no Bics. All we had were the old metal butane Zippos or Ronson. The flame was blue. I used to practice flipping my Zippo open with one hand holding a ciggy in my mouth trying to look cool. Matches are what we had. All the gas stations would give them to us free when they came out to wash our windows and fill up our car with gas. That’s way before self service. I have a huge collection of old matchbooks. Well, actually they are my sons now. I got up in the attic and found a couple of old cigar boxes full of them. I started collecting them in high school. Back then if you were a girl, you could go to the bars and drink at age 18. Boys couldn’t go. They had to wait until they were 21. That’s why so many of my generation married older people. All the bars had an endless supply. I still have several from the old Red Dog Saloon, an infamous bar. I saw my first and only beat down. Scared the **** out of me! I digress...sry. Now what were we talking about?
Yes, smoking was very common back then, even among young adults. We smoked like chimneys in college. The disposable lighters weren't around then, so most people carried matches. You might have several books, some you leave in the car for months at a time, maybe another book in your purse, etc. I kept a little basket on my desk where I kept matches, keys, etc. where they might sit for a year before being used. You got them from restaurants, drugstores, gas stations, any number of places. Businesses used them for advertising.
ETA: To add on to the ongoing discussion of whether the couple was involved in drug trafficking, I think its highly unlikely.
Having read a few DEA reports on the subject while following murder cases here, this couple and the area they likely came from (CO), they weren't traveling a drug trafficking route. In the mid to late '70s, most MJ was sourced in Mexico or Columbia/SA. MJ being sold in the southeast US, where they were killed, usually moved from border crossings in TX to I-10 and into southeastern states and beyond to the east coast. If it was coming from SA, it probably came through FL. It wouldn't have moved from CO.
The gun used in the murders was found a month later, right in the Sumter, SC area. Occam's Razor says the killer(s) were local and if they were buying MJ, it was coming from either Florida or TX. Not from a lovely young folk singer living in Colorado and her new boyfriend.
IIRC, cocaine was moving from Columbia back then and was moving into the US via plane and boat. It doesn't make sense for Colorado to be a drug hub for the southeast US. JMO
Also, the convicted killer of ringleader of the Columbia murders was a military policeman so he would know how to properly dispose of bodies and know how investigators could identify the body- this is why clothes are missing. Hope this makes sense.
Also, the convicted killer or ringleader of the Columbia murders was a military policeman so he would know how to properly dispose of bodies and know how investigators could identify the body- this is why clothes are missing. Hope this makes sense.
IIRC conversion vans were a big thing then also. Just thinking about the information of tire castings taken long ago at the site of the murders.
Bic disposable lighters came out in 1973.
When Were Bic Lighters Invented - Vision Launch Media
Who Invented the Lighter? A History of Handheld Flame
Some news articles from the last couple of days. This one states James friends called him "J.P."
Lancaster man identified as deceased in 44-year-old South Carolina cold case | fox43.com
The lives of Pamela Buckley and James Freund, Sumter County's 1976 Jane and John Doe
This article confirmed the DNA Doe Project identified them 5 months ago
Victim identified in nearly 45-year-old cold case is from Lancaster
The lives of Pamela Buckley and James Freund, Sumter County's 1976 Jane and John Doe
If these people were traveling and camping, I’d be surprised if the didn’t have matches, or the preferred Zippo lighter. I’m also lost on how IF they smoked pot, why this would be a surprise or issue with 2 young people in the mid 70s. I’d be surprised if they didn’t actually.
I am a newcomer and I am going out on a limb here. Wonder if this is connected to the Woodlawn Jane Doe Case. The keys found on the deceased were made in Fitchburg. The tattoo on the deceased is “ J.P.”. A white van was seen near where the deceased was found. It is probably just a coincidence.
This is hopefully a better post. Sunlending opened up for We Five who were a successful folk/ pop group in 1965. By the time, Sunlending opened up for them in the early seventies, they were playing the nostalgia circuit and were past their prime. With the death of the founding member, it might have affected PB and with her personal situation might have given her reasons to escape or go somewhere. Her and the other person resemble characters from a Bruce Springsteen song - specifically “ Born To Run “ or a song by Bob Seger “ Beautiful Loser”.
Thanks for the correction. Let's just say they weren't in popular use yet. I think the early ones ran out of fluid quickly and broke easily.
I agree, as a smoker back then, that they did seem to run out of fluid quickly.
however, I think we might be just chasing rabbits over the reason they had a book of matches. As with many cases, i think the best theory will be Occam’s Razor.
Good investigators would have driven a few hours in each direction on I 95 to see if any exits had an advertised ice cream shop on a sign. Wonder if that happened. Also lots of ice cream is fruit ice cream.
Totally agree, that's why I did mention it, I do think they were camping and James did have the matches in his jeans to use it.
It was stated that they were very clean, took probably a shower, (+clean washed, clothes) a few hours before, so imo, he had the matches in his pants to use.
However, I do think, one of them.. think.. it must have been James, picked the matches up at a truck stop, where/ maybe he started to hitchhike and along the road got possession of a car.
Also,I do think that the witness, who played pool, at the campground, really met JPF and James came up with a story, that sounded more interesting and wasn't easy to verify, (for what for reason, whatever..)
I do not think, they had anything to do with drugs or drug related crimes. Now that we know, when they were reported missing, it must have take them a year to meet each other and being /setting up drugs deals or running drugs, together, seems very off to me.
More like, meeting the wrong person(s), at the wrong time and place.
This is all my opinion, of course and tbh, I don't like to digg much into their personal lives.. I do hope the murderer will be accountable for what he did. That is what matters.
To refresh, some info:
I did read that Lonnie had taken a polygraph test and you can find it on thread #4 page 1,post by @Mysterylover. (sorry, don't know, how to link it directly)
Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #4