Nancy Grace - 9 Feb 2010

[NewMommy09]

True, but they are biting the hand that fed them --- so EJ should reveal what she knows on them.

A catch-22 if the kidnappers don't care about EJ's fate now and EJ hates Logan so much she wants to still protect them.....

Oh I definitely see your point. But maybe they don't see it that way. If they paid for Gabriel, they probably don't feel that they owe EJ anything. Realistically, I don't feel I can assume for this couple to have good moral or value on life. I can understand someone wanting a baby so badly that they will take one any way they can find one (not that I agree). Especially if they aren't able to do it legally for some reason or other. But on the other hand, anyone that can keep Gabriel from his daddy who obviously loves him and wants him back, is NOT looking out for Gabriel's best interests. They might be telling themselves different. But if they ARE moral and decent people, they know it's not right and that it's hurting Gabriel and all the people he loves and who love him. JMO

I'm just having a hard time theorizing on a level that these people care about ANYONE besides themselves.

eta: aside from wanting to hurt Logan, Elizabeth may truly not know very much about this couple or where Gabriel is now. JMO

 

[stormmolly]

That and the words "Bio Dad"

Hate the wording Bio Dad too, Ugh, he is the Father of Gabriel has Custody of Gabriel, and In my heart I believe they will not find anything in the landfill, I pray for Gabriel raying:

 

[debloree]

I would agree with you if she didn't continue to play Tammi's soundbite as if she is an innocent and credible witness. It looks like that is Tammi's mug shot though, that may be as close as Nancy will get to alluding to her arrest. I am very disappointed in Nancy Grace because of her comarderie with the Smiths.

Exactly! That's how I feel and for weeks she referred to them as her "very special guests, would-be adoptive parents".

 

[impatientredhead]

I thought the same thing. To me, it's not only logical but I would think it would be easier for the dogs.

The landfill is a very dangerous and unhealthy place for the dogs to work. If they are moving that layer to a warehouse for inspection it will be safer and better ventilated for the dogs to come in there. Some handlers won't take their dogs on landfill searches.

 

[BeanE]

The landfill is a very dangerous and unhealthy place for the dogs to work. If they are moving that layer to a warehouse for inspection it will be safer and better ventilated for the dogs to come in there. Some handlers won't take their dogs on landfill searches.

I've read how it's extremely dangerous for the dogs. Many hazards for them. The dogs have to have special boots and protective gear to wear.

 

[NewMommy09]

The landfill is a very dangerous and unhealthy place for the dogs to work. If they are moving that layer to a warehouse for inspection it will be safer and better ventilated for the dogs to come in there. Some handlers won't take their dogs on landfill searches.

Thank you for that insight.
I'm glad to know this will be safer for the dogs.

 

[cyberborg]

Oh I definitely see your point. But maybe they don't see it that way. If they paid for Gabriel, they probably don't feel that they owe EJ anything. Realistically, I don't feel I can assume for this couple to have good moral or value on life. I can understand someone wanting a baby so badly that they will take one any way they can find one (not that I agree). Especially if they aren't able to do it legally for some reason or other. But on the other hand, anyone that can keep Gabriel from his daddy who obviously loves him and wants him back, is NOT looking out for Gabriel's best interests. They might be telling themselves different. But if they ARE moral and decent people, they know it's not right and that it's hurting Gabriel and all the people he loves and who love him. JMO

I'm just having a hard time theorizing on a level that these people care about ANYONE besides themselves.

eta: aside from wanting to hurt Logan, Elizabeth may truly not know very much about this couple or where Gabriel is now. JMO

BBM. True, but if EJ shared anything about an adoption it'd be a LOT more than she is sharing currently .... which is nothing and next to nothing!!!

 

[NewMommy09]

BBM. True, but if EJ shared anything about an adoption it'd be a LOT more than she is sharing currently .... which is nothing and next to nothing!!!

I can't differ in opinion on that.

 

[impatientredhead]

My thing with an underground or illegal adoption is why can't they simply provide a 'proof of life' such as current photo with newspaper?

It can be done anonymously or posted to the Internet but it'd save a lot and take the heat off EJ, that the only thing she did was illegally adopt -- nothing worse.

It bothers me if someone has him how they are leaving everyone out to dry including EJ and she could face homicide charges because they will not offer up some tip.

If these people even exist they may not be aware that they have a missing child. If they were truly duped by an sketchy agency and they paid the agency/broker and left with what they think is a child no one wanted and legal enough looking paperwork they may be in another state or country blissfully unaware.

If they do know they may think they are protecting the child. Who knows what lies they were told, or they may look at this situation and think he is better off (I don't personally believe this).

Or if I was going to broker babies I would have a couple I worked with that would put moms at ease so they would sign the paperwork and hand over the kid. If I was doing something that was either right on the edge of illegal or blatantly the trafficking of children I would not want party A to be in contact with party B. If the deal goes bad I don't want A and B in contact to throw me under the bus as the broker.

I would want buyers that never laid eyes on the mother and I would want mothers that could not track down and try to reclaim their parental rights. That is all bad for me as a broker right? Especially if the buyers think they are just paying absorbant fees and don't realize the real game being played.

I would send the moms cash for travel expenses as well. I would not want my name or credit card tied to the travel of several young women. That is an evidence trail that will bury you in court!

I hate to say it but I think TS thought she could bully her way through this situation and get an adoption, but then Logan wouldn't sign the papers. EJ is prone to fits of rage, I think the text message was true, and that she did it after he wouldn't sign and the adoption fell through her fingertips she then sent him the ultimate F-You text that what he battled her so hard for she had taken from him anyway.

The baby items left behind in the room seem very ominous to me.

 

[panthera]

I've read how it's extremely dangerous for the dogs. Many hazards for them. The dogs have to have special boots and protective gear to wear.

You're so right, it is too dangerous for the dogs to be out there. That's what the earth-movers are for. The dogs could go to the warehouse though while LE is sifting through the evidence, imo.

 

[captdj]

Posting from my bb, so sorry for any errors. I have to be honest. IF EJ killed him, I have major doubts that she put him in the hotel dumpster, it seems risky and too easy for someone to find him there. Do we have any idea if she would have had access to that dumpster?

Looking at the trucks at the landfill ... Its such a large place and do we know what area or how large an area of San Antonio's trash is going to be checked.... or is it just the hotel dumpster they are looking for....

 

[not_my_kids]

I read the part that the police made contact with her on the 27th, which somehow I had missed previously and my stomach went to my toes. Since I didn't see the show, I don't know how long before she got on the bus, but I think if she killed him, she actually killed him after that contact, not before the text. That would have spooked her, let her know how much trouble she was in...
That is frightening to me, and took a lot of my hope. I'm going to have to catch it on Youtube, unless someone else recalls if and what more was said about that.

 

[impatientredhead]

You're so right, it is too dangerous for the dogs to be out there. That's what the earth-movers are for. The dogs could go to the warehouse though while LE is sifting through the evidence, imo.

They said they were bringing them in later. It sounds like that is exactly what they plan to do after they have the debris gridded and the environment safe to work in.

 

[cyberborg]

If these people even exist they may not be aware that they have a missing child. If they were truly duped by an sketchy agency and they paid the agency/broker and left with what they think is a child no one wanted and legal enough looking paperwork they may be in another state or country blissfully unaware.

If they do know they may think they are protecting the child. Who knows what lies they were told, or they may look at this situation and think he is better off (I don't personally believe this).

Or if I was going to broker babies I would have a couple I worked with that would put moms at ease so they would sign the paperwork and hand over the kid. If I was doing something that was either right on the edge of illegal or blatantly the trafficking of children I would not want party A to be in contact with party B. If the deal goes bad I don't want A and B in contact to throw me under the bus as the broker.

I would want buyers that never laid eyes on the mother and I would want mothers that could not track down and try to reclaim their parental rights. That is all bad for me as a broker right? Especially if the buyers think they are just paying absorbant fees and don't realize the real game being played.

I would send the moms cash for travel expenses as well. I would not want my name or credit card tied to the travel of several young women. That is an evidence trail that will bury you in court!

I hate to say it but I think TS thought she could bully her way through this situation and get an adoption, but then Logan wouldn't sign the papers. EJ is prone to fits of rage, I think the text message was true, and that she did it after he wouldn't sign and the adoption fell through her fingertips she then sent him the ultimate F-You text that what he battled her so hard for she had taken from him anyway.

The baby items left behind in the room seem very ominous to me.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

BBM. I sadly agree.

This all simmered and TPS single-handedly brought the pot to a boil. It all boiled over when the original adoption attempt fell through and there was too little time given pressure from Logan and LE. No time for any plan B.

LE called EJ on Dec 27 and she refused to return Gabriel, she did not mention any adoption. That was it.

 

[BeanE]

I read the part that the police made contact with her on the 27th, which somehow I had missed previously and my stomach went to my toes. Since I didn't see the show, I don't know how long before she got on the bus, but I think if she killed him, she actually killed him after that contact, not before the test. That would have sppoked her, let her know how much trouble she was in...
That is frightening to me, and took a lot of my hope. I'm going to have to catch it on Youtube, unless someone else recalls if and what more was said about that.

That was in Tammi's charging document:

On 12/27/09, T.P.D. Sergeant L. Lenzen contacted Elizabeth via telephone. Elizabeth was instructed to make contact with Texas Law Enforcement in order to confirm that Gabriel was alive and safe. Elizabeth refused.

 

[mommavi1181]

Thanks all for the play by play on NG, I haven't had a chance to watch. I think things still sound promising that Gabriel is alive (with the pizza orders and hispanic male she was seen with).

Praying for Gabriel, Logan, and Family.

 

[panthera]

That was in Tammi's charging document:

On 12/27/09, T.P.D. Sergeant L. Lenzen contacted Elizabeth via telephone. Elizabeth was instructed to make contact with Texas Law Enforcement in order to confirm that Gabriel was alive and safe. Elizabeth refused.

I'm not really sure how to take this. Does she just think she's above the law and can ignore their instructions or did she refuse because he isn't alive & safe? :waitasec:

 

[not_my_kids]

That was in Tammi's charging document:

On 12/27/09, T.P.D. Sergeant L. Lenzen contacted Elizabeth via telephone. Elizabeth was instructed to make contact with Texas Law Enforcement in order to confirm that Gabriel was alive and safe. Elizabeth refused.

Thanks, I didn't think it was new, I just said I missed it the first time. It still does bad things to my hopes for Gabriel.

 

[impatientredhead]

Young pretty girl
With options
Spoiled and prone to rage
Handed child off to person that has not been seen or identified
Went out and got prettied up after the last time child was seen
Inappropriate emotional responses
Defiant with LE
Evidence hinges around pizza, pizza boxes, and pizza receipts

That doesn't sound like anyone we have seen before.
Where is the bounty hunter that is going to solve the case?

 

[artsy1]

Caller asking about the backpack EJ was seen boarding the bus with. It was not listed on the property receipt when EJ was booked into the jail in Miami according to NG producer.

Maybe I've missed something in trying to read everything related to this case, but has anyone been able to question any of the people who rode on the bus to FL with EJ to know if she even got off the bus in FL with the backpack? I would imagine that a white girl who would stand out would have attracted some sort of attention if anyone saw her get on the bus with the backpack/duffel bag, but didn't have it at her final destination.

Has anyone checked to see what stops that bus might have made during that trip, and if anyone noticed what EJ did during the stops (left the bus with the bag without returning with it, made phone calls, etc)?

IMHO, it just seems like there is a missing piece of the puzzle as to where GJ is to be found based on EJ's behavior on that trip from SA to FL.:waitasec: