Nancy Grace Mysteries

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by eileenhawkeye, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. bettybaby00

    bettybaby00 Active Member

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    Hmmm, what are you implying????? :floorlaugh:



    Not sure what you mean by "commercial service?" I think I've found a good one, however. No logs kept, payment records separate from long in records etc.,etc.
     


  2. eileenhawkeye

    eileenhawkeye Well-Known Member

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  3. azwriter

    azwriter Sister Mary Wanna

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    Excuse me, can I just state: Nancy Grace is not a reporter, she is not a member of the established media. She is an attorney. Her's is a talk show where she gives her opinions and asks for other opinions. The Nancy Grace show is not a newscast.
    Just wanted to clear that up.
     
  4. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    azwriter,
    Thanks for that. I guess the distinction between Reporter, Journalist, Correspondent, Presenter, etc, is becoming blurred these days.

    Unless you are a Media Celebrity, most media employees are on short term contracts, and switch between the above roles.

    I tend to view anyone fronting a media program as synonymous with a reporter since they are offering either opinion as fact, opinion as news, or opinion as recieved.


    Nancy Grace sounds like the attorney's Oprah.


    .
     
  5. bettybaby00

    bettybaby00 Active Member

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    You're right, most shows do present their opinions as factual. The problem I have with Nancy's show on JRB is the format through which it was presented. nancy is a former prosecutor, so she does have the ability to impart solid analysis of the law, and the court system. This show was a disappoint b/c it operates under the premise of "Nancy Grace Mysteries," which implies there will be a level of investigation accomplished by its staff. Sadly in this case, this concept came up woefully short.
     
  6. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    bettybaby00,
    Thank you. All of which suggests that Nancy Grace thinks she is in the entertainment business and that they are broadcasting to the lowest common demoninator?

    .
     
  7. Chelly

    Chelly SW New Mexico

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    Sadly, the untruths she spews is taken as fact by the masses.
     
  8. otg

    otg Well-Known Member

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    I may be late in responding to this, but I’ve been busy with RL issues and still wanted to share it.

    I recorded this show so I could watch it later. After watching the entire thing, I was going to go back and type some of the things said and add my thoughts afterwards. But thank you, eileenhawkeye, for posting the link to the transcript so I didn’t have to type the whole thing. As cynic predicted, it wasn’t quite as bad as the Aphrodite Jones thing (which is unfortunately setting the bar pretty low), but the entire show is nothing more than Nancy’s five to ten minutes of rambling about her impressions and what she “feels” about it, and then what she thinks she knows, with cuts to other clips from past airings and interviews about the case -- most of which come from the period of time when Karr’s “confession” was in the news. (And thanks, cynic, for uploading it to Youtube for those who didn’t see it or record it.)


    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/26/ng.01.html

    NANCY GRACE, HOST: When I hear the name JonBenet Ramsey, what comes to mind immediately is injustice, injustice in that this little girl`s, a 6-year-old beauty queen from Colorado, murder has never been solved. Never.

    ********

    GRACE: What else comes to mind? A botched crime scene, a murder of a child inappropriately handled, bungled from the get-go, investigators and police being so solicitous of the family that statements were not appropriately taken immediately when police arrived at the scene.

    That`s a very fine line to walk for police, whether to treat parents as victims or as possible witnesses or as possible suspects or as possible persons of interest. It`s very, very difficult. But their main job is to solve the crime. That`s the main job for police, to save victims and to solve crimes.

    ********

    GRACE: I think of JonBenet, and unlike probably millions of people who immediately recall her dancing around in a little cowboy, cowgirl outfit -- you know, a pedophile`s dream video -- I think of injustice. I think of a little girl abused, beaten and strangled, who died alone in her parents` basement, alone in the sense that no one that truly loved her was with her.

    I think about evidence that was misinterpreted or overlooked, public pressure, politics, friends of friends of friends. And the case was never solved.

    ********

    GRACE: I think about a little girl that was objectified, who never really had a full childhood because she was in one beauty contest after the next until she met her death.

    ********

    GRACE: Then I think of freaks like John Mark Karr, who muddied the water years later, claiming he killed JonBenet.

    ********

    GRACE: Think of all the leaches that have grabbed onto this case and used it.

    Uhhh, yeah -- like Nancy Grace!

    There is nothing more leech-like than someone who would make an hour-long “event” out of an ill-informed, over-dramatized monologue filled in with video clips from the past 17 years. I mean, how little did they spend on making this? How much did it cost to have her sit there in a black leather blouse looking to the side of the camera, feigning outrage and talking like she’s familiar with the case? But then she spouts things that show just how little she does actually know.

    And BTW, what is that around her neck? Is that a handcuff necklace?

    I often think of Burke (ph) Ramsey, JonBenet's brother, who many people suspected of killing her, which is an outlandish theory. I mean, statistics alone show that it's extremely rare for a brother or sister -- it's called fratricide -- to occur. It's extremely rare. And if you look at Burke at the time, you know, he's so small and frail, there's no way he did this deed.

    Here we go again with the “small and frail” BS, like that alone (even if it were true) would exclude him from consideration. Anyone ever see how “small and frail” any of the following kids were when they committed their murders: Eric Smith, Jon Venables and Robert Thompson, Mary Bell, Cristian Fernandez, Cindy Collier and Shirley Wolf?


    But I think of him often to this very day and how the murder of his sister must have affected his life. That`s what I think of when I think of JonBenet Ramsey.

    (This is the end of Nancy’s list of things she thinks of when she thinks about JonBenet. The rest of her monologue is her talking about the “facts” of the case.)

    ********

    GRACE: The irony of JonBenet's murder is that this all occurred on Christmas, around Christmas day. She got up on what many children consider to be the greatest day of the year, saw her presents, had a wonderful day at home with her family. The family went to a Christmas party at a friend's home. They arrived back home around 9:30 in the evening. JonBenet was said to have been so tired, she actually fell asleep and had to be carried to bed, went straight to bed.

    Suddenly, the next morning, frantic phone calls that JonBenet was missing. When Patsy Ramsey came to the front door, she had on complete hair and makeup -- eyeliner, mascara, the works. This is at about 5:00 o'clock in the morning.

    The home was completely searched. Only hours and hours later did the Ramseys alert the police, Oh, yes, we have this additional area downstairs in the wine cellar, let's go look. John Ramsey and a friend of his went down to that area, and John Ramsey is the one that discovered the body. So Ramsey himself volunteered to go down into that area of the home. He and his friend Fleet (ph) were there when the door was opened and the body of JonBenet Ramsey was found.

    Is that how it happened? Officer French didn’t really even go down to the basement when he did the initial search? It wasn’t until “hours and hours later” that “the Ramseys alerted the police” to the “additional area downstairs in the wine cellar,” and then JR said, “Let’s go look”?

    Really?


    ********

    GRACE: The body was covered in a blanket, which is very unusual. Random murder very rarely involves covering up the body. And that is almost an instinctual act. If you’ve ever seen a dog walk around in a circle before it sits down, that’s instinct bred from millions of years. Humans, when they kill a loved one or an acquaintance, very often will cover up the body with a blanket, with leaves, with trash, with paper, with boxes, with something. You very rarely see the shrouding of a body that is stranger on stranger.

    ********

    GRACE: JonBenet’s body was covered in a blanket. She died of asphyxiation by ligature with a rope that was attached to a broken handle from one of Patsy Ramsey’s paintbrushes. The rope was turned into a garrote, a ligature -- it was a rope strangling -- and attached to the paintbrush.

    You’ve gotta hear her say the word “garrote” to appreciate it. She couldn’t be satisfied with one of the four pronunciations already accepted in the English language (\gə-‘rät, gə -‘rōt; ‘ger-ət, ‘ga-rət\). No, she has to say it like she’s speaking French or Spanish or something (gə-‘rä-tā) to make it sound even more exotic and sinister.

    And it was also loosely attached to her hands.

    The same “rope”, Nancy?

    She was wearing a shirt with a heart on the front that she had worn the night before, white PJs and white underwear, PJ bottoms and underwear. In the underwear was urine and what appeared to be drops of blood. She had pigtails in her hair. She was still wearing a single cross necklace around her neck. On her heart was drawn -- on her hand, the palm of her hand, was drawn a heart. Her hair was caught in the ligature.

    A “heart” on the front of her shirt? Is she misinformed, or did she just get confused with the drawing in the palm of JonBenet’s hand? Newspapers and magazines have proofreaders. Doesn’t anyone at HLN check these things for accuracy? Judging from her confusion over the heart and the hand, where it was drawn, and her midsentence correction, they could have easily done a retake, but I guess that would have wasted too much of Nancy’s valuable time and too much of the limited budget they had for producing this garbage.

    She died of asphyxiation from the ligature and cranial injuries from an apparent blow to the head. There were lacerations and bruising, hematoma in her vagina consistent with digital penetration, suggesting that a man did not abuse her, although he could have. Digital means fingers. But typically, you`ll see a man sexually assault a child with full-blown sex.

    Why do I say that? Because her hymen was intact. And if JonBenet Ramsey had been molested by a man in full-blown sex, she would have no longer had a hymen intact.

    “Her hymen was intact”? Apparently, Nancy didn’t even bother to read the autopsy report where it says, “The hymen itself is represented by a rim of mucosal tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions.” That means that the rest of the hymen (clockwise between 10 and 2:00) is completely missing! “Intact”? (And this doesn’t even address the rest of the injuries to the hymen itself.)

    ********

    GRACE: Now, interesting, there was an open window in the basement. Below the window was a suitcase. That is not where the suitcases were commonly stored. There was also a scuff mark on the wall. Also was found a footprint to a high-tech type hiking boot which cannot be linked back to any known shoes in the home.

    Apparently, Nancy isn’t aware that Hi-Tec is a brand of hiking boot -- not a reference to upper-end, technologically advanced boots (if there is such a thing). I noticed the way she said this, and sure enough, even the transcript has it written that way. Does she think the boots were equipped with some kind of built-in computer, or does the fact that they had a compass on the laces make them “high-tech”?

    Also, while they weren’t “linked back to any known shoes in the home,” we do know it was discovered that Burke did own a pair of Hi-Tec hiking boots that were mysteriously never found.

    Just right off the top, there are glaring problems with the police investigation. And I don’t like coming down on the police. They’re here to help us, not hurt us. But keep in mind this was the only homicide in Boulder that year.

    First of all, police told John Ramsey to search his own home. Problem! They did not immediately separate John and Patsy Ramsey and question them. And then there became a big tug-of-war about whether they would cooperate with police and be questioned.

    There’s just so much drama surrounding them coming in for questioning. You know, maybe they felt that they had already been targeted, and so they -- they didn’t want to go down that road. Maybe that’s why they didn’t do it.

    But instead of immediately separating them and questioning them, it became a high drama to, you know, question them, interrogate them and get a statement from them later on.

    Not only that, as I recall, police let family, friends, you know, everybody was pouring in and out of the home the whole morning for hours -- hours -- a contaminated crime scene. Even if evidence had been found, the contamination argument would surface at trial.

    True.

    ********

    GRACE: The case was so bungled from the get-go. I mean, even if they ever did charge someone, it -- it’s so highly contaminated and compromised, I don’t think it could ever be proven.

    Now, here’s an interesting note. Over 300 media were in town covering the story in Boulder. Why did America latch onto JonBenet’s life and death? I think possibly because there were so many reams and reams of video of her that you felt like you got to know her. You saw so much video, so many pictures, you heard so much about it. And who couldn’t, who wouldn’t love JonBenet Ramsey?

    Also, their family seemed so picture perfect. You know, John Ramsey, many people believe, is handsome. He’s successful. He’s got a lovely wife. She’s beautiful. The daughter’s beautiful. The son is smart. You know, everything -- beautiful home, the American dream, you know, went straight to crap.

    Poor Burke. Nancy says John is handsome, Patsy is beautiful, JonBenet is beautiful, even their home was beautiful... But Burke? “The son is smart

    ********

    GRACE: We then learned about a secret grand jury that had been apparently investigating the case for over a year.

    What? A “secret grand jury” that was “apparently investigating the case for over a year”? Does she think this went on for over a year without the media spectacle that surrounded it?

    At the end of that grand jury investigation, it was deemed there was insufficient evidence to go forward with charging anyone.

    Deemed by whom though? Not the GJ. It was “deemed” by the gutless wonder, Alex Hunter, over the findings of the twelve members of the GJ.

    The case was ultimately closed.

    No, it wasn’t simply “closed” at the end of the GJ investigation.

    There have been reports that touch DNA has cleared all members of the Ramsey family. And the district attorney offered an apology to John Ramsey.

    Yeah, that happened. But how about bringing the story up to date a little and mention what everyone else knows: That the GJ returned a true bill for charges against the parents, but the DA at the time refused to sign it as required by Colorado laws according to University of Colorado Law School professor Mimi Wesson, and the “apology” from the next DA (Lacy) was nothing more than a farce.

    END

    I don't usually expect much from these things that are aired on TV, but I can't help but get just a little PO'ed when they are as blatantly misinformed as this one was. They do nothing but add to the false impressions the public has about what actually happened.

     
  9. bettybaby00

    bettybaby00 Active Member

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    Otg: most of your analysis had me :lol: yet it's really not funny. The amount of misinformation was unconscionable, and my first thought after about 10 minutes was, how old is this program?

    2 of her most offensive comments centered on the BR is frail bullchit. Thin and lanky dose not equate to frail. I wonder if that term, which has been so frequently ascribed to him, was initially conjured up by the Rs spin defense team? And the glossing over and misrepresentation of her vaginal injuries is criminal. It's one thing to opine about aspects of the case that can be viewed several ways, but to purposely misinform the public about FACTS with regard to her autopsy results shows her ill informed bias. those findings weren't simply concluded by one person. A large number of leading experts drew the same conclusions, and can't be discounted in such a way, especially by someone who has zero medical expertise!:banghead:

    I'm with you...the more I thought about the show, the more PO'd I became! :banghead:
     
  10. BOESP

    BOESP Well-Known Member

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    Quote from otg's above post: Poor Burke. Nancy says John is handsome, Patsy is beautiful, JonBenet is beautiful, even their home was beautiful... But Burke? “The son is smart.”

    All I can say is Nancy Grace needs glasses if she thinks John Ramsey was handsome back then much less now!

    On the other hand, I'd say Burke Ramsey is an extremely good-looking young man now. Frail then? He played baseball and basketball. Apparently, Ms. Grace doesn't know much about boys. Where I live they were almost all skinny and wiry at that age and well into their teens and twenties. They also, while frail and skinny, tossed 100-pound bales of hay onto a wagon all day long with the ease of tossing daisy petals into the air.

    Now if Ms. Grace would only tell us why someone's looks have anything to do with anything. She gets on my last nerve and reminds me of a Screaming Mimi.

    Rant over.

    Otg, cynic, and bettybaby00, a big round of applause from me to you all for the above posts. :applause:
     
  11. madeleine

    madeleine Well-Known Member

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    this "the poor boy was to young/small,etc to could have done this" is always driving me nuts :banghead:
    I've posted links to so many cases in which such young,small,frail,innocent looking kids did such horrible crimes...but there are still some who just don't wanna open their eyes,sigh....
     
  12. madeleine

    madeleine Well-Known Member

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    there ya go Nancy,and this is one only example :banghead:


    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/10/48hours/main660314.shtml

    [​IMG]

    At 13, Smith was at the center of a media storm. His redheaded looks, and his age, were so completely at odds with his horrific crime that he almost got away with murder.

    -------------

    Smith attracted Robie to a remote location in a park. There Smith strangled Robie, dropped a pair of large rocks on the boy’s head, undressed his body, and sodomized him with a tree limb. The cause of death was determined to be blunt trauma to the head with contributing asphyxia. Two days after Robie's funeral, Smith admitted to Robie's killing. In 1994 Smith was convicted of second-degree murder and sentenced to the maximum term then available for juvenile murderers — a minimum of nine years to life in prison.

     
  13. bettybaby00

    bettybaby00 Active Member

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    Dear God Madeleine!!!!!

    Horrid, horrid tragedy!!!!
     
  14. tweezybird

    tweezybird Member

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    I remember watching NG this summer and could not believe how much she got wrong. Anyway on HLN today Jane Velez Mitchell is doing the same thing. Do they do any research at all?
     

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