Nancy, the runner

[SleuthyGal]

I saw it. Believe it or not this type of thing is not uncommon in message forums. In fact, this is now the 3rd time I've seen this. And the forums involved have ranged in topics from dating, to candles and candle wax, to (now) true crime.

My comment to a friend who told me about the implosion on her candle wax board: "well if people can fight about and create a subversive secret board around CANDLE WAX, I suppose they can manage to fight about anything." :-O

 

[MoonFlwr]

I saw it. Believe it or not this type of thing is not uncommon in message forums. In fact, this is now the 3rd time I've seen this. And the forums involved have ranged in topics from dating, to candles and candle wax, to (now) true crime.

My comment to a friend who told me about the implosion on her candle wax board: "well if people can fight about and create a subversive secret board around CANDLE WAX, I suppose they can manage to fight about anything." :-O

rofl! :rotfl:

 

[carolinalady]

hey moon,
I have been a distance runner off and on for the last 13 years. I never take water, powerbars, goo, cellphone, wallet, or my big~scary~black~beauceron http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/beauceron.htm (but trust me...my doggie, mister b...is a sweet soul and a gem..lol)

I DO however, wear a watch and consult it as I run for time...not distance while preparing for the longer races (ten~milers and half~marathons) but I am not into beating others but rather just meeting my own personal goals of completing a course race. If Nancy were competitive in this she would have been very concerned on her splits and monitored them. IMHOO

If my husband is home with the kids, I usually don't carry anything with me. If a sitter is home with the kids, I carry my cell phone. I do wear a watch with a timer, as I also run for time, not distance.

 

[mahmoo]

It would be interesting to know if Nancy ALWAYS ran on the same route or if she had a variety of different routes she used and if that route(s) was in a populated, high traffic area……in other words not in remote areas. Perhaps any friends reading here could comment on that.

 

[robinparten]

Hi everyone, I have been running for over 20 years, and I often run without taking anything with me. It just depends on the purpose of the run. I know mileage markers all around where I run since I have been running in the area for so many years. Hope that helps!

 

[Just the Fax]

My wife's greatest fear is I will be hit by a car while running and they would have no idea who I was or how to contact her. In this weather, shoes, shorts and maybe an ipod is all you get.

 

[curiositycat]

My wife's greatest fear is I will be hit by a car while running and the would have no idea who I was or how to contact her. In this weather, shoes, shorts and maybe an ipod is all you get.

I agree with your wife. My daughter is a runner and I always tell her "Please put a piece of paper with my name and phone number on it in case something happens" I don't think she does that though, no one ever thinks it would happen to them.

 

[carolinalady]

I agree with your wife. My daughter is a runner and I always tell her "Please put a piece of paper with my name and phone number on it in case something happens" I don't think she does that though, no one ever thinks it would happen to them.

FYI...RoadID is a great product and serves this purpose!!!

 

[Magister]

It would be interesting to know if Nancy ALWAYS ran on the same route or if she had a variety of different routes she used and if that route(s) was in a populated, high traffic area……in other words not in remote areas. Perhaps any friends reading here could comment on that.

Besides the theory that I advanced in a previous post, the fact that they were publicly searching the areas around Lochmere, Regency Park, Lakes Wheeler and Johnson, all reffered to as places "she liked to run" in the media, probably says a lot about the fact that she didn't have any one definite, ordinary route.

BTW: As I posted earlier, the area between Regency and her friend's house is undeveloped and unpopulated; Lochmere is strictly residential, while Regency is mixed-use with most of the main part and the part which she would've used to access the power line is all office buildings. Lake Johnson and Lake Wheeler are both Raleigh city parks which are popular with runners and pretty well separated from anything developed. Also, though the theory may have been that "Carrie" could've drove, but if you were going for distance, you could run to either of the lakes along roads without sidewalks. Lake Johnson probably wouldn't be worth the payoff of running to it, but if she were to run to the much larger Lake Wheeler, she could've run down Holly Springs Rd, past the entrance to the subdivision, where the body was found. (Of course, she could've also run to Lake Wheeler via two other routes, both of which would've put her on Holly Springs Rd. in the vicinity of the cul-de-sac, but not directly past the subdivision entrance and in reality, someone who was going for great distance could've run to both Lake Wheeler and Lake Johnson, then maybe take the bus home)

Correction: I now see that the bus doesn't appear to serve Lochmere (Waverly Place) on Saturday, but I wasn't seriously suggesting that she would've taken public transit. Though my suggestion that she could have theoretically, occasionally run to Lake Wheeler does still hold and pretty much every logical route would've included Holly Springs Rd.

 

[runnermomof5]

Magister asked where to carry a cellphone in lycra shorts?

I have a " small personal item belt" that I wear which expands to hold my cell phone, etc. CHECK IT OUT: www.SPIbelt.com

With all of the training gear that BC owned, I am surprised that NC did not have her own running gear, at least a watch, since it appears that she ran on a regular basis for training purposes. IMO , she did not leave at 7 am to go running. I think that something happened to her before then.

 

[momto3kids]

I just do not believe NC ran along Holly Springs Rd in the South direction for any reason. This road is one that any jogger who does not want an ankle injury or to be hit would be on. From her home and go Holly Springs Rd north, maybe, since it will intersect almost immediately to a jogging lane or sidewalk near Colonial Baptist Church.
Holly Springs Rd. south is very dangerous with not enough footage to place 2 feet on solid flat surface without being in traffic. Our friends mailbox has had to be replaced a few times,(he lives along the stretch she would have had to jog.) The mail man literally has traffic stopped each time he stops at a mailbox.

To see what I am talking about do a GOOGLE MAP. Put in...Holly Springs Rd Cary NC. The shot will be at the intersection of Holly Springs & Tryon with a little yellow man. Have the yellow man walk along Holly Springs until you pass the intersection of Cary Pkwy. (This is the north section she could have headed.) Pass Cary Pkwy until you get to Fielding Dr, this is south.
It is vey unlikely NC jogged this, especially when Cary has 100? miles or more of jogging trails, sidewalks and bike paths to offer.

 

[NCBanker]

I just do not believe NC ran along Holly Springs Rd in the South direction for any reason. This road is one that any jogger who does not want an ankle injury or to be hit would be on. From her home and go Holly Springs Rd north, maybe, since it will intersect almost immediately to a jogging lane or sidewalk near Colonial Baptist Church.
Holly Springs Rd. south is very dangerous with not enough footage to place 2 feet on solid flat surface without being in traffic. Our friends mailbox has had to be replaced a few times,(he lives along the stretch she would have had to jog.) The mail man literally has traffic stopped each time he stops at a mailbox.

To see what I am talking about do a GOOGLE MAP. Put in...Holly Springs Rd Cary NC. The shot will be at the intersection of Holly Springs & Tryon with a little yellow man. Have the yellow man walk along Holly Springs until you pass the intersection of Cary Pkwy. (This is the north section she could have headed.) Pass Cary Pkwy until you get to Fielding Dr, this is south.
It is vey unlikely NC jogged this, especially when Cary has 100? miles or more of jogging trails, sidewalks and bike paths to offer.

You're absolutely right, Mom. There are way too many jogger friendly paths in that area for her to run down Holly Springs road and then way back into that subdivision. I drove down there the other day (since I live in the area) and that culdesac is way down that road, way in the back. There's absolutely no reason to go running back there.

 

[Magister]

I'll agree that it was unlikely that she had tried to jog past the subdivision where the body was found, unless (possibly) she was headed to Lake Wheeler in that direction or was going to loop back by Penny, or for reasons that I'll address later in this post.

As for whether or not she would've jogged down Fielding to Brittabbey Ct; I didn't know the woman or her usual routes. If she had measured a route to match the distance for her upcoming half-marathon, Brittabbey could've been one way to do it. Also, if you look at the overview via Google Maps, you can see that it's only about 500' from the cul-de-sac to Garden Oaks Ct, which would lead out to Yates Mill and could be a shortcut through a neighborhood toward Lake Wheeler.

(There's obviously some kind of cut visible using Google that would connect the two neighborhoods, but I doubt it's a developed path and it appears to come out in someone's back yard)

And, it really should go without saying that there's only about 500' between Lily Atkins and Fielding Dr.; If she was making a loop from Lily Atkins to the Parkway or vice-versa, a distance of about a mile, she would've jogged right past the mouth of Fielding. (An entire loop, down Lochmere to Lily Atkins, up Holly Springs to the Parkway and back home googles-out to being about 3.5 miles; A little light for an athlete, but definitely a joggable distance and if she included jogging around various cul-de-sacs, like Brittabbey, it could possibly be doubled or more with very little effort).

As I said, I didn't know the woman. Judging from the areas searched, I'd say that she probably varied her route somewhat and as I said in a previous post to this forum, she may not have opposed the idea of jogging off-path or through undeveloped areas.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Until we get some kind of information about exactly what, if anything, she was wearing when she was found, we don't know that she ever went jogging that morning. I suspect she never made it out of her house alive after that party, but I'll wait to hear what evidence suggests that.

 

[momto3kids]

magister....this could be a possibility that NC could have jogged this, but Lake Wheeler has no place to run except a parking lot.

I still find it hard to believe with all the available areas in Cary to jog she would chose what I consider rough terrain.
I guess the best way it was described to me....why would someone chose to test a new Lexus on a gravel back road with mud filled pot holes when can test the handling and speed on a reasonable paved road. Would she risk running along roads that had no shoulder? How can she get an accurate time test this if she was doing one?

magister...you could be exactly right as well. There are just too many variables with this crime.This hopefully will get answered soon.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

You raise some good points, Mom. Especially about the test times on rougher terrain and running in a place where she could risk injury to her ankles or self due to the traffic.

I don't think she ever left the house that morning either. In my heart, I believe she was already gone long before daylight came.

 

[fran]

magister....this could be a possibility that NC could have jogged this, but Lake Wheeler has no place to run except a parking lot.

I still find it hard to believe with all the available areas in Cary to jog she would chose what I consider rough terrain.
I guess the best way it was described to me....why would someone chose to test a new Lexus on a gravel back road with mud filled pot holes when can test the handling and speed on a reasonable paved road. Would she risk running along roads that had no shoulder? How can she get an accurate time test this if she was doing one?

magister...you could be exactly right as well. There are just too many variables with this crime.This hopefully will get answered soon.

According to Brad, her husband, at the very beginning of this case when she was still missing, Nancy took three routes. THIS was NOT one of them.

She was in training and I don't think she would have varied her routine. I also don't believe she was scheduled to run that day. IIRC, the person who ended up calling in the report of her missing, was her regular running partner. Like I said, I don't believe she would have changed her routine.

Jogging just fit into Brad's explanation, IMHO, of where she was.

I think we'll be surprised when we hear the REAL STORY.

JMHO
fran

 

[Magister]

Momto3kids - We really don't know where Nancy would've ran and if she's anything like my triathlete wife, a pleasure run with friends probably would've followed a different course than training session. (If anything good has come from this case for me, I asked my wife this evening, what route she runs because prior to today, I had no idea)

Streetview shows a wide shoulder most of the way along Holly Springs between Lily Atkins and the Parkway, a small part of it appears to have a paved shoulder and there's sidewalk, plus turn lanes in front of one street.

Once again, according to Google, if she were to do a straight loop out Wallsburg to the Parkway, over to Tryon, back around to the Lochmere entrance off of Kildare, out through Lily Atkins to Holly Springs, up to the Parkway and back home, she'd pass the cul-de-sac and she'd have run about six miles.

I agree that running Holly Springs toward Fairview probably isn't something someone would choose. They straightened-out those curves as you climb to Penny, what about fifteen years ago, but it's still a dangerous place. People just no longer call them "deadman's curves".

Anyway...

As you can see, if she had run the roads in a circle, she could easily keep adding distance. The smaller loop that I mentioned previously was 3.5 miles; The larger loop outlined above is 6 miles and if she added the Campbell loop, she'd only be on Holly Springs Rd for a little over a 1000' at the low end, she'd still pass Fielding and the whole run would become 7.9 miles.

We just don't know because we didn't run with her and based on my own life, I don't even know whether Brad knew which way she'd go.

Though, I will say that as you pointed-out, there's several greenways in the area, but if you run along them, you could have to stop to cross a street and if you ran around the main roads in the right direction, you might never have a delay.

 

[CyberPro]

Momto3kids - We really don't know where Nancy would've ran and if she's anything like my triathlete wife, a pleasure run with friends probably would've followed a different course than training session. (If anything good has come from this case for me, I asked my wife this evening, what route she runs because prior to today, I had no idea)

Streetview shows a wide shoulder most of the way along Holly Springs between Lily Atkins and the Parkway, a small part of it appears to have a paved shoulder and there's sidewalk, plus turn lanes in front of one street.

<Snipped for space >

Magister,

I do not run anymore, but when I was younger, I did.

I ran a measured 10K course, and I ran the same route each time. This was in the days before cell phones, and I ran with nothing, no ID, no water. I did have a watch, but that is because I always wear one, and I was not much interested in timing myself (Which might have been done using a calendar more effectively ).

At one point on my route, I ran along a fairly major highway. This was rather stupid on my part in retrospect, the cars were going about 55MPH and whizzing rather close to me. The shoulder was really wide, but I did not like running on it, because it was not level. This caused a lot of torque on my ankles, and you were not able to establish a smooth running pattern. This section of my route was about 4 miles into the run, and I found it very uncomfortable to run there. Unless this was the first time for NC to try this route, I would think that she would choose a smoother path, I generally preferred sidewalks, although I might have opted for a greenway like path, if it was not too much like running cross country.

CyberPro

 

[fran]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25723445/

Who killed Nancy Cooper?

Van Zandt: Murdered woman's husband definitely a suspect


....................snip..................

Mr. and Mrs. Cooper are both from Canada, moving to the U.S. because of Brad&#8217;s job. Nancy was a runner who once had hopes of participating in the Olympics. A bad knee quashed that dream, but she continued to run in marathons and other races. No one other than Brad Cooper is known to have come forward to say they saw Nancy after she left a Friday night neighborhood party that she attended alone, although a friend spoke to her on the phone at 10:30 p.m. that same evening.

Brad says she arose before 7 a.m. Saturday morning and left for a run with a friend. "No," says her husband, "she didn&#8217;t take a cell phone or any form of identity with her." She also appears to have broken her tradition of taking her car to a coffee house to meet her running partner. This experienced runner training for a half-marathon evidently broke her normal routing and appears not to have traveled along one of her normal running paths.
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