NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #2

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I think in a lot of these cases it what we don't know that could lead us in the right direction. What was accessed on FH Facebook? What was accessed on KR Facebook? What , if anything was found forensic wise in FH car? What other texts don't we know . Why on earth leave a note ? What did the note do that Faith's brutal murder wouldn't have already accomplished ?

You make some very good observations. At this point I don't think we can even be sure of any time lines. It seems like it's only after an arrest is made in cases like this that we learn that only 50% of what we read was true.
 
I am halfway through watching this on Breaking Homicide and have to comment my thoughts, sorry if i get some details wrong. I believe her boyfriend Ty did it. He sends her a text asking if she wants to hang out, she doesnt reply because shes fed up of him, he gets enraged about her not replying and decides to go confront her. He finds her apartment door unlocked and her in bed either awake or asleep, he hits her with the rum bottle, or either with his fists and the blood splatters onto the bottle . Then he sends that text from her phone in the hope that it will keep police from suspecting him. If he was an abusive boyfriend then he probably knew her phone pin because he would have wanted to see who she was texting etc.


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I am halfway through watching this on Breaking Homicide and have to comment my thoughts, sorry if i get some details wrong. I believe her boyfriend Ty did it. He sends her a text asking if she wants to hang out, she doesnt reply because shes fed up of him, he gets enraged about her not replying and decides to go confront her. He finds her apartment door unlocked and her in bed either awake or asleep, he hits her with the rum bottle, or either with his fists and the blood splatters onto the bottle . Then he sends that text from her phone in the hope that it will keep police from suspecting him. If he was an abusive boyfriend then he probably knew her phone pin because he would have wanted to see who she was texting etc.


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That theory would work but he has an alibi.
 
I must have missed the part where he had an alibi, where was he?

With another girl, according to him.

Also, though, Faith's roommate was still at the apartment at the time the text was sent to him.
 
I just had a thought I want to run by everyone:

One thing that is almost universally agreed upon is that the Time Out note is meant to misdirect in some way. It’s been suggested before that it was either meant to suggest a motive for the murder that wasn’t true or direct suspicion at a particular suspect. I had a different idea: What if the note was meant to disguise the fact that the writer did not speak English very well?

The DNA suggests the killer was an Hispanic male. The Hispanic population of North Carolina isn’t tiny, but at 9% (http://www.pewhispanic.org/states/state/nc/), it’s not overwhelmingly large, either. And while many of them speak English just fine, there is a subset that don’t speak it well, or at all.

Let’s say for the sake of argument that the killer was one of the latter. He may have been able to kill Faith without being seen or heard, but was worried someone would see him, or worse, speak to him in the complex after he had left her apartment. So he may have been trying to think of a way to misdirect police away from him should someone bring him to their attention.

He came up with writing a note in English, which is kind of a clumsy solution, but probably all he could think of on short notice. Since he didn’t speak English well, it would have to be very short; otherwise, he would make a bunch of grammatical errors that would tip investigators off that he’s not a native English speaker, which is the opposite of what he wants to accomplish.

He would know at least some English, so he probably just threw a few “bad words” into the note, since it didn’t matter so much what it actually said (interestingly, in some parts of the Spanish-speaking world, the word “stupid” is not to be used in polite conversation, either). But even in just the five words he wrote, he managed to make a mistake, and switched the noun/adjective order to what is common in Spanish (noun first, adjective second). However, since the note was so short and obviously hastily written, that mistake isn’t as noticeable.

I actually like this solution to the note problem- I’ve never been able to figure out what the note accomplished for the killer when the cost was leaving his DNA all over it and the pen. As it turned out, no one saw him, but if LE had directed a lot of attention on the local Hispanic community in the first few days after the murder, the case may have turned out very different. Investigators had a lot of reasons to look elsewhere anyway, but maybe the killer didn’t know that, and was just trying to help them along in any way he could.
 
I just had a thought I want to run by everyone:

One thing that is almost universally agreed upon is that the Time Out note is meant to misdirect in some way. It’s been suggested before that it was either meant to suggest a motive for the murder that wasn’t true or direct suspicion at a particular suspect. I had a different idea: What if the note was meant to disguise the fact that the writer did not speak English very well?

The DNA suggests the killer was an Hispanic male. The Hispanic population of North Carolina isn’t tiny, but at 9% (http://www.pewhispanic.org/states/state/nc/), it’s not overwhelmingly large, either. And while many of them speak English just fine, there is a subset that don’t speak it well, or at all.

Let’s say for the sake of argument that the killer was one of the latter. He may have been able to kill Faith without being seen or heard, but was worried someone would see him, or worse, speak to him in the complex after he had left her apartment. So he may have been trying to think of a way to misdirect police away from him should someone bring him to their attention.

He came up with writing a note in English, which is kind of a clumsy solution, but probably all he could think of on short notice. Since he didn’t speak English well, it would have to be very short; otherwise, he would make a bunch of grammatical errors that would tip investigators off that he’s not a native English speaker, which is the opposite of what he wants to accomplish.

He would know at least some English, so he probably just threw a few “bad words” into the note, since it didn’t matter so much what it actually said (interestingly, in some parts of the Spanish-speaking world, the word “stupid” is not to be used in polite conversation, either). But even in just the five words he wrote, he managed to make a mistake, and switched the noun/adjective order to what is common in Spanish (noun first, adjective second). However, since the note was so short and obviously hastily written, that mistake isn’t as noticeable.

I actually like this solution to the note problem- I’ve never been able to figure out what the note accomplished for the killer when the cost was leaving his DNA all over it and the pen. As it turned out, no one saw him, but if LE had directed a lot of attention on the local Hispanic community in the first few days after the murder, the case may have turned out very different. Investigators had a lot of reasons to look elsewhere anyway, but maybe the killer didn’t know that, and was just trying to help them along in any way he could.


1) First I believe the Hispanic population of Orange County (where Chapel Hill is) is well above 9%; in fact I think it’s one of the highest percentages in the entire state — but someone can probably check that and let us know. (Though we’re just looking for 1 or 2 individuals, so percentage may not even be important).

2) more importantly, I definitely disagree that it’s “universally agreed” that the note is misdirection; I’ve never bought into the misdirection notion (though acknowledge it’s possible)… I believe whoever did this was in such a spontaneous state of rage, and perhaps drunk or on drugs, that they simply couldn’t think rationally enough or with forethought to misdirect or ‘stage’ (just my opinion).

I have great difficulty explaining the note as well, but will offer one simple scenario, as an example of how one can concoct a storyline: someone at the Thrill puts a move on one or both girls; they reject him; he gets their address from someone else at the Club (or off Google); shows up later half-stoned at their door saying, “hey, how’s about we hook up now,” Faith says something like, “I told you NO at the Club; you’re STUPID for even showing up here!” and then the rest ensues…
…not claiming it’s a great explanation, but just another way approaching it.

 


1) First I believe the Hispanic population of Orange County (where Chapel Hill is) is well above 9%; in fact I think it’s one of the highest percentages in the entire state — but someone can probably check that and let us know. (Though we’re just looking for 1 or 2 individuals, so percentage may not even be important)......

Correction: I just checked and Orange County Hispanic population is only about 8.4%; but the two neighboring counties are:
Alamance: ~12.6%
Chatham: ~11.9
 
Yeah, I don't think the note is misdirection either. I think it is a sincere expression of anger and rage.

I'm more interested in RubyLu's theory, as the narrative re how and why Ty might have done it fits fairly well. Yes, he has an alibi, but sometimes alibis turn out to be bogus. Could there be a chance that his lady-friend is lying? Or could she be mistaken in some way?

He told the ID guys he didn't think he was ever swabbed. Well, if that's true, that was a huge oversight on LE's part. It might also help to explain why elements of the crime suggest the killer and Faith were intimates and yet no one in her social circle is a match. Maybe no one is a match because they haven't swabbed him.

I have to believe they would have swabbed him, right? Even if he had an alibi?

One last thing; I don't think people should put that much credence into the parabon profile. I don't think LE think those things are all that reliable or accurate and I'm pretty sure John Taylor said this in his podcast episode with Gasparoli.
 
Yeah, I don't think the note is misdirection either. I think it is a sincere expression of anger and rage.

I'm more interested in RubyLu's theory, as the narrative re how and why Ty might have done it fits fairly well. Yes, he has an alibi, but sometimes alibis turn out to be bogus. Could there be a chance that his lady-friend is lying? Or could she be mistaken? He told the ID guys he didn't think he was ever swabbed. Well, if that's true, that was a huge oversight on LE's part. It might also help to explain why elements of the crime suggest the killer and Faith were intimates and yet no one in her social circle is a match. I have to believe they would have swabbed him, right? Even if he had an alibi?
My recollection is he was definitely swabbed and police never told him any results, which he assumed meant he was cleared -- if he's not a DNA match, nor matches the Latino DNA phenotype, and has an alibi, and the police have known about him this long without pinning anything to him, in my view he's cleared! I think we're just trying to make too much out of each recent thing that comes along. I still think the perp is more likely a stranger, or someone only tangential to Faith's circles, or an acquaintance of Takoy who hasn't yet been pinpointed in press.
 
Since we're talking about TM, I wanted to link to a Gaspo writes entry from January 1, 2014: http://www.gaspowrites.com/2014/01/time-to-say-more-about-hedgepeth-case.html

In retrospect, it's pretty clear that it's TM being referred to in the third section.

It’s interesting considering we don’t know an actual time of death and he says Faith texted him before she was murdered. I guess it’s TM speculation. Still interesting to me. Did no one else find it a little concerning that in the past TM had gone looking for Faith and instead found her friend KD in the bed after he turned the light on and picked the covers up? Just interesting...IMO


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It’s interesting considering we don’t know an actual time of death and he says Faith texted him before she was murdered. I guess it’s TM speculation. Still interesting to me. Did no one else find it a little concerning that in the past TM had gone looking for Faith and instead found her friend KD in the bed after he turned the light on and picked the covers up? Just interesting...IMO

BBM

Yes, that was my immediate thought, too. She blew him off that night, he got mad about it, and tracked her down later. He'd done it before.

In regards to the unknown DNA, I was brainstorming with someone the other day: TM shows up and barges in right as Faith and this guy are finishing up (and they're also drinking rum and eating the Time Out left overs, I guess, so his DNA is on them too), and TM explodes and kills her. The mystery guy doesn't need this trouble and just splits.

Sounds great until you remember that KR had no idea who this guy is (there's no reason she wouldn't have told police if she knew he was there, or going to be there) and I can't think of a good reason he wouldn't be in Faith's recent text/call history.
 
Will just reiterate something I’ve mentioned before:
For a few years now police have repeatedly said that this is NOT a cold case, and that they have LOTS of significant evidence, just needing a little more help from the public to tie it all down. I only see 2 interpretations for that:

a) they have gathered plenty of evidence but have no suspect to tie it to (many, many suspects cleared), and are hoping for one more lead or name or final piece of evidence from the public to wrap it up, OR

b) they have it down to 1 or 2 suspects, but most all the evidence is circumstantial and prosecutors are telling them they need better, further evidence to successfully bring a charge.

I think most people here lean toward the second interpretation (and think we know the name of the perp), just lacking a bit more evidence.
But I still lean toward the first, and think the perp has barely if ever been mentioned in documents, and may well still be completely unknown to law enforcement.
 
Will just reiterate something I’ve mentioned before:
For a few years now police have repeatedly said that this is NOT a cold case, and that they have LOTS of significant evidence, just needing a little more help from the public to tie it all down. I only see 2 interpretations for that:

a) they have gathered plenty of evidence but have no suspect to tie it to (many, many suspects cleared), and are hoping for one more lead or name or final piece of evidence from the public to wrap it up, OR

b) they have it down to 1 or 2 suspects, but most all the evidence is circumstantial and prosecutors are telling them they need better, further evidence to successfully bring a charge.

I think most people here lean toward the second interpretation (and think we know the name of the perp), just lacking a bit more evidence.
But I still lean toward the first, and think the perp has barely if ever been mentioned in documents, and may well still be completely unknown to law enforcement.

I agree.. If they thought they knew who it was and just needed a little more evidence, they wouldn’t be swabbing hundreds of random men just looking for a match.
 
Correction: I just checked and Orange County Hispanic population is only about 8.4%; but the two neighboring counties are:
Alamance: ~12.6%
Chatham: ~11.9

Durham probably has the highest population if I had to guess
 
Will just reiterate something I’ve mentioned before:
For a few years now police have repeatedly said that this is NOT a cold case, and that they have LOTS of significant evidence, just needing a little more help from the public to tie it all down. I only see 2 interpretations for that:

a) they have gathered plenty of evidence but have no suspect to tie it to (many, many suspects cleared), and are hoping for one more lead or name or final piece of evidence from the public to wrap it up, OR

b) they have it down to 1 or 2 suspects, but most all the evidence is circumstantial and prosecutors are telling them they need better, further evidence to successfully bring a charge.

I think most people here lean toward the second interpretation (and think we know the name of the perp), just lacking a bit more evidence.
But I still lean toward the first, and think the perp has barely if ever been mentioned in documents, and may well still be completely unknown to law enforcement.

I've always believed it's #1. Lots of evidence and don't know who.

The scary thing about this case is just how much circumstantial evidence there is to implicate so many other people that don't match the DNA.
 
Now that they've IDed the serial rapist/murderer in CA using familial DNA, I am feeling cautiously optimistic that this perp will be identified the same way. Genealogy is one of the most popular pastimes in the US and DNA testing to determine ancestry and find distant relatives has become increasingly more popular. Since each great-great-great grandparent can have hundreds of descendants, I think it is only a matter of time until a couple of the perp's upload their DNA to a publicly available website.
 
Now that they've IDed the serial rapist/murderer in CA using familial DNA, I am feeling cautiously optimistic that this perp will be identified the same way. Genealogy is one of the most popular pastimes in the US and DNA testing to determine ancestry and find distant relatives has become increasingly more popular. Since each great-great-great grandparent can have hundreds of descendants, I think it is only a matter of time until a couple of the perp's upload their DNA to a publicly available website.

The East Area Rapist raped over 45 women, and murdered as many as 12 people that we know of. I believe investigators were working with a particular genealogy website. I forgot the name of it, but I guess the question is: can they get more of these websites to help with these investigations? It might be easier said than done.
 
The East Area Rapist raped over 45 women, and murdered as many as 12 people that we know of. I believe investigators were working with a particular genealogy website. I forgot the name of it, but I guess the question is: can they get more of these websites to help with these investigations? It might be easier said than done.

They don't really have to get the sites to work with them. On many sites, people upload their DNA and that DNA is available to be mined by any member. So, law enforcement just has to create an account to access DNA that has been uploaded and set to "public" which many people do.

My previous post should have said that I think it's just a matter of time until the perp's *relatives* upload their DNA. I don't think the perp himself will be doing it anytime soon!
 
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