NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #2

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Just to avoid retreading endlessly over things that have already been covered, and to spark some discussion, I’ll just share where I am in my thinking of the case.

In the time since I’ve really been looking at it, I’ve lurched between several different scenarios, from ETJ doing it through an intermediary, to a kind of beta male from the club or school getting obsessed with her and deciding to surprise her at home, to where I am now, which is thinking it was a random male who lived close to her at the apartment complex.

Acknowledging that police have repeatedly say they don’t think that’s the case, I think that makes the most sense for two reasons.

The first is that, as wide as the investigation spread, they never were able to connect the DNA evidence with anyone in her social circle or several levels beyond it. Even if this person wasn’t someone with an immediately obvious connection to her, at some point, in some interview, someone who knew her would have looked at the DNA phenotype picture and said “Oh, I know him, he was the guy Faith knew through (whatever).” That’s apparently never happened, or if it did, the lead turned out to be false.

The second reason is because, of all the trails the investigation followed, it seems the one LE put the least stock in was “random killer who did not know the victim.” And honestly, that made sense at the time. One suspect had directly threatened to kill her; another had a disturbing history of stalking her; another was an on and off again hometown boyfriend who had reason to be jealous; one was her roommate who had engaged in suspicious behavior the night she died; and beyond all of those, there was the fact that she’d visited a rowdy club hours before she died, so who knows what attention she may have attracted there?

If you look at the history of the investigation, you see a lot of attention on the obvious suspects at first (ETJ, TM, Alex), then a shift to the less obvious ones (JB, several of the club guys) about six months later. But one of the Gaspo blog posts mentions that they didn’t seriously interview the people in the complex until a full year later. That was a lot of time for the trail to go cold.

At this point, I really think there’s a simple answer here. That night, some sketchy guy was awake and out and about in the complex. He was probably just staying with someone there short term. He might not have even been thinking about committing a crime, or if he was, I seriously doubt he had murder on his mind. I think maybe he was nearby and noticed when KR and JM left, so he decided to go try the door; finding it unlocked, went in to see what he could steal. He grabbed a couple of bottles of alcohol from the kitchen, maybe a few other things, then went into the bedroom to see what he could steal there. I think he was shocked to see Faith there, and she either woke up or started to, and he panicked and attacked her with what was in his hand, the Bacardi bottle.

I don’t think the assault lasted long or made much noise, and I don’t think she fought him beyond instinctively trying to fend off the bottle with her hands, which is where the injuries to her fingers and hands come from. Once she was dead, he ejaculated on her either as a sign of disrespect or even to suggest a motive that wasn’t there. He wrote the note on the first thing he saw (the Time Out bag) for the same two reasons. Not wanting his true motive (burglary) to be obvious, he didn’t take anything with him. He was probably out of the apartment less than ten minutes after Faith was dead.

I think he was probably gone the next day, and whoever he was staying with probably didn’t think anything of it, both because he was never supposed to be there permanently, and because it was widely assumed early on, by both the immediate neighbors and police, that ETJ had committed the murder.

So… go ahead, tear my theory to shreds. If there’s something inconsistent with the facts as we know them, or you find some aspect of it totally implausible, point it out. Convince me I’m wrong!

I’ve long thought the “random stranger” scenario more plausible than it gets credit for, but still doubt it is the case. Instead, and though it certainly could just be coincidence, I’m most struck by the timing of the murder coming just hours after the women visited a late-night bar where they would’ve been exposed to possibly 100+ guys. The possibility of someone (or two) quickly being obsessed with one or both women, or rejected by one or both, seems highly plausible in such a setting, and then Karena needing to feign illness to leave for home to get away from them.
So I’ve always leaned toward the perp coming from that night’s Thrill population, a large percentage of whom I don’t believe the police ever discovered. I think what followed that night was a drunken or drug-induced rape attempt that quickly went worse.
In terms of your own specific scenario I don’t think whoever did this had the wherewithal to do any “staging” (though lots of folks DO think different elements were staged), and if he was staying at the complex, even briefly, I believe police would’ve caught wind of it and tracked him down at some point (not to mention that he would likely return to his domicile disheveled & bloody).
 
I’ve long thought the “random stranger” scenario more plausible than it gets credit for, but still doubt it is the case. Instead, and though it certainly could just be coincidence, I’m most struck by the timing of the murder coming just hours after the women visited a late-night bar where they would’ve been exposed to possibly 100+ guys. The possibility of someone (or two) quickly being obsessed with one or both women, or rejected by one or both, seems highly plausible in such a setting, and then Karena needing to feign illness to leave for home to get away from them.
So I’ve always leaned toward the perp coming from that night’s Thrill population, a large percentage of whom I don’t believe the police ever discovered. I think what followed that night was a drunken or drug-induced rape attempt that quickly went worse.
In terms of your own specific scenario I don’t think whoever did this had the wherewithal to do any “staging” (though lots of folks DO think different elements were staged), and if he was staying at the complex, even briefly, I believe police would’ve caught wind of it and tracked him down at some point (not to mention that he would likely return to his domicile disheveled & bloody).

I would think the roommate would have revealed this information to the investigators: thus cracking the case wide open.
 
I would think the roommate would have revealed this information to the investigators: thus cracking the case wide open.
The women may have been (unwantingly) approached by dozens of men that night (at the Thrill) and no one stuck out more to KR than another (though the whole scene made her uncomfortable), or perhaps she was threatened if she said anything, or perhaps for some reason she didn't want to get someone in trouble, or perhaps the women were "stalked" at a distance at the Thrill and were unaware of it (and my notion of KR feigning illness is simply wrong), or, or, or... the problem is we are all left to concoct details to fit whatever scenario we favor, yet no scenario seems to fit very tightly all that is known. :(
 
I’ve long thought the “random stranger” scenario more plausible than it gets credit for, but still doubt it is the case. Instead, and though it certainly could just be coincidence, I’m most struck by the timing of the murder coming just hours after the women visited a late-night bar where they would’ve been exposed to possibly 100+ guys. The possibility of someone (or two) quickly being obsessed with one or both women, or rejected by one or both, seems highly plausible in such a setting, and then Karena needing to feign illness to leave for home to get away from them.
So I’ve always leaned toward the perp coming from that night’s Thrill population, a large percentage of whom I don’t believe the police ever discovered. I think what followed that night was a drunken or drug-induced rape attempt that quickly went worse.
In terms of your own specific scenario I don’t think whoever did this had the wherewithal to do any “staging” (though lots of folks DO think different elements were staged), and if he was staying at the complex, even briefly, I believe police would’ve caught wind of it and tracked him down at some point (not to mention that he would likely return to his domicile disheveled & bloody).

My problem with the "stalker from Thrill" scenario is the time lag involved. Faith and KR left Thrill after 2:30 AM, and KR didn't leave the apartment again until almost 4:30 AM. What is this guy (or guys) doing in the meantime? If he (they) follows them back to the apartment, why does he (they) just hang out in the parking lot for 2 hours on the off chance one of them will leave again? If he (they) doesn't follow them from the club right away, how does he (they) know where the girls live? You can come up with a scenario where the person involved somehow knew where they lived already, and then just by chance (after taking an additional two hours to down some liquid courage, for instance) caught Faith by herself, but there's too much coincidence and chance in that scenario for me.

Also, not to be contrary about it, but do we actually know if Thrill was packed to the gills that night? Watching the video of the girls leaving, there doesn't seem to really be that many people there.

I think you're kind of proving one of my points, though: Even leaving aside all those obvious suspects, there's the Thrill trip, and it's easy to think that had something to do with her death. But what if it didn't, and just ended up being one more thing that distracted police from pursuing leads related to a random killer? I don't necessarily know that they would have "caught wind" of him, especially if the person he was staying with moved, and no one even started asking questions like that until at least a year later.

I agree that a random killer has less reason to stage; that's definitely a weak part of the theory.
 
I dont know CADwrest. The scenario you are describing would have made a great deal of noise, and probably would have awakened the very observant neighbor that lived in the appartment below.

It really seems like the murderer was filled with rage of somesort. Usually burglars are calculated and quiet.

Not necessarily. Assaults, especially surprise ones, can be eerily quiet. If she was attacked on the bed (we know from the 9-11 call that she was still partially on it), then it probably didn't make that much noise. Apparently, she never screamed, which the downstairs neighbor probably would have heard, but that's not really all that unusual, and actually to be expected if she were attacked while asleep or immediately upon awakening.

As far as rage, I think panic can be a replacement for that. He went into her room, she startled, he instinctively lashed out at her, and was so freaked out by what happened that he just continued to hit her.
 
I would think the roommate would have revealed this information to the investigators: thus cracking the case wide open.

I agree with that. I don't think the killer was someone from the Thrill that they'd had some sort of altercation with, because that would have probably come out the next day when they questioned KR.
 
The women may have been (unwantingly) approached by dozens of men that night (at the Thrill):(

I find that a bit hard to swallow considering the roommate worked so hard into the wee hours of the morning to find some random guy to come and pick her up.
 
Not necessarily. Assaults, especially surprise ones, can be eerily quiet. If she was attacked on the bed (we know from the 9-11 call that she was still partially on it), then it probably didn't make that much noise. Apparently, she never screamed, which the downstairs neighbor probably would have heard, but that's not really all that unusual, and actually to be expected if she were attacked while asleep or immediately upon awakening.

As far as rage, I think panic can be a replacement for that. He went into her room, she startled, he instinctively lashed out at her, and was so freaked out by what happened that he just continued to hit her.

I would certainly say that's a scenario to look into, but do to the suspicious behavior of the roommate, it kinda shadows it off to a back burner.

Definitely possible though.
 
Just to avoid retreading endlessly over things that have already been covered, and to spark some discussion, I’ll just share where I am in my thinking of the case.

In the time since I’ve really been looking at it, I’ve lurched between several different scenarios, from ETJ doing it through an intermediary, to a kind of beta male from the club or school getting obsessed with her and deciding to surprise her at home, to where I am now, which is thinking it was a random male who lived close to her at the apartment complex.

Acknowledging that police have repeatedly say they don’t think that’s the case, I think that makes the most sense for two reasons.

The first is that, as wide as the investigation spread, they never were able to connect the DNA evidence with anyone in her social circle or several levels beyond it. Even if this person wasn’t someone with an immediately obvious connection to her, at some point, in some interview, someone who knew her would have looked at the DNA phenotype picture and said “Oh, I know him, he was the guy Faith knew through (whatever).” That’s apparently never happened, or if it did, the lead turned out to be false.

The second reason is because, of all the trails the investigation followed, it seems the one LE put the least stock in was “random killer who did not know the victim.” And honestly, that made sense at the time. One suspect had directly threatened to kill her; another had a disturbing history of stalking her; another was an on and off again hometown boyfriend who had reason to be jealous; one was her roommate who had engaged in suspicious behavior the night she died; and beyond all of those, there was the fact that she’d visited a rowdy club hours before she died, so who knows what attention she may have attracted there?

If you look at the history of the investigation, you see a lot of attention on the obvious suspects at first (ETJ, TM, Alex), then a shift to the less obvious ones (JB, several of the club guys) about six months later. But one of the Gaspo blog posts mentions that they didn’t seriously interview the people in the complex until a full year later. That was a lot of time for the trail to go cold.

At this point, I really think there’s a simple answer here. That night, some sketchy guy was awake and out and about in the complex. He was probably just staying with someone there short term. He might not have even been thinking about committing a crime, or if he was, I seriously doubt he had murder on his mind. I think maybe he was nearby and noticed when KR and JM left, so he decided to go try the door; finding it unlocked, went in to see what he could steal. He grabbed a couple of bottles of alcohol from the kitchen, maybe a few other things, then went into the bedroom to see what he could steal there. I think he was shocked to see Faith there, and she either woke up or started to, and he panicked and attacked her with what was in his hand, the Bacardi bottle.

I don’t think the assault lasted long or made much noise, and I don’t think she fought him beyond instinctively trying to fend off the bottle with her hands, which is where the injuries to her fingers and hands come from. Once she was dead, he ejaculated on her either as a sign of disrespect or even to suggest a motive that wasn’t there. He wrote the note on the first thing he saw (the Time Out bag) for the same two reasons. Not wanting his true motive (burglary) to be obvious, he didn’t take anything with him. He was probably out of the apartment less than ten minutes after Faith was dead.

I think he was probably gone the next day, and whoever he was staying with probably didn’t think anything of it, both because he was never supposed to be there permanently, and because it was widely assumed early on, by both the immediate neighbors and police, that ETJ had committed the murder.

So… go ahead, tear my theory to shreds. If there’s something inconsistent with the facts as we know them, or you find some aspect of it totally implausible, point it out. Convince me I’m wrong!

ETA: BBM

IIRC, I think the liquor bottles were empty. IMO, underage college kids don't keep large amounts of liquor, wine, or whatever, on hand. I also believe if this person was just looking to steal and ended up murdering/ possibly sexually assaulting someone, "he" would be getting the hell outta dodge. Not stay and concoct a note and clean "himself" up (no blood on the note)...how did "he" know no one would be returning soon? This is what leads me to believe the CHPD when they say it was not random.

I have long believed she was attacked in her sleep. My fiance and I reenacted if this were the case by covering me in marker in all the injuries she had via the autopsy. IMO-It fits.
 
ETA: BBM

IIRC, I think the liquor bottles were empty. IMO, underage college kids don't keep large amounts of liquor, wine, or whatever, on hand. I also believe if this person was just looking to steal and ended up murdering/ possibly sexually assaulting someone, "he" would be getting the hell outta dodge. Not stay and concoct a note and clean "himself" up (no blood on the note)...how did "he" know no one would be returning soon? This is what leads me to believe the CHPD when they say it was not random.

I have long believed she was attacked in her sleep. My fiance and I reenacted if this were the case by covering me in marker in all the injuries she had via the autopsy. IMO-It fits.
I hope you didn't mind me quoting you . Your are far more persuasive in your posts.
 
ETA: BBM

IIRC, I think the liquor bottles were empty. IMO, underage college kids don't keep large amounts of liquor, wine, or whatever, on hand. I also believe if this person was just looking to steal and ended up murdering/ possibly sexually assaulting someone, "he" would be getting the hell outta dodge. Not stay and concoct a note and clean "himself" up (no blood on the note)...how did "he" know no one would be returning soon? This is what leads me to believe the CHPD when they say it was not random.

I have long believed she was attacked in her sleep. My fiance and I reenacted if this were the case by covering me in marker in all the injuries she had via the autopsy. IMO-It fits.

Fair point about the bottles. If they were empty, there's no incentive to steal them. Do we know if they were empty at the time of the murder, though? I know they are empty in the LE photos, but they may have been emptied for storage purposes or something.

I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that the perp may have taken a minute or two to clean up. It's the work of a few seconds to wash blood off your hands. Like I said, if he'd seen KR and JM leave, he could have assumed they weren't immediately going to come back; if the actual murder didn't make much noise, he might have thought "OK, I probably have a little time, but I shouldn't dawdle."

Anyway, I'll admit that the theory has problems, I just don't think they're totally unworkable.
 
I know KR has her defenders on this thread, but things don't add up for me regarding her and her alibi and the 911 call. If we are offering up plausible scenarios, couldn't there be a plausible scenario where KR was back at the apartment with FH and the perp and perhaps others, "after partying"...and when KR left the perp decided that was his chance to make a move? This might also explain why the perp felt they had tons of time to clean up, write notes etc. Several people have stated here that they think KR knows more than she has told. I agree with that. LE also must have felt that to some degree to keep on interviewing her numerous times afterwards. Maybe this perp is someone known to KR whom she has fears of or has felt threatened by
 
Fair point about the bottles. If they were empty, there's no incentive to steal them. Do we know if they were empty at the time of the murder, though? I know they are empty in the LE photos, but they may have been emptied for storage purposes or something.

I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that the perp may have taken a minute or two to clean up. It's the work of a few seconds to wash blood off your hands. Like I said, if he'd seen KR and JM leave, he could have assumed they weren't immediately going to come back; if the actual murder didn't make much noise, he might have thought "OK, I probably have a little time, but I shouldn't dawdle."

Anyway, I'll admit that the theory has problems, I just don't think they're totally unworkable.

BBM
MOO

I would think that for the integrity of the investigation they would preserve evidence as is. The liquid inside isn't going anywhere or changing shape. It's in a bottle.

I've had to wash the blood off of my hands before from cleaning up a kid's bloody nose. I usually take my time to make sure I get everything off because I find other people's blood on me to be gross. I also have found that blood droplets from the force of the water from the sink usually splash some droplets around the basin. Assuming that they weren't coming back right away would seem to be taking a BIG chance. From what I remember of being that age if we went out that late it was to grab food fast food, or go to a gas station for cigarettes, snacks, and etc...Unless they KNEW they were not coming back. Leading back to this was not random. MOO
 
BBM
MOO

I would think that for the integrity of the investigation they would preserve evidence as is. The liquid inside isn't going anywhere or changing shape. It's in a bottle.

I've had to wash the blood off of my hands before from cleaning up a kid's bloody nose. I usually take my time to make sure I get everything off because I find other people's blood on me to be gross. I also have found that blood droplets from the force of the water from the sink usually splash some droplets around the basin. Assuming that they weren't coming back right away would seem to be taking a BIG chance. From what I remember of being that age if we went out that late it was to grab food fast food, or go to a gas station for cigarettes, snacks, and etc...Unless they KNEW they were not coming back. Leading back to this was not random. MOO

BBM
Actually, if they just put the bottle in the evidence locker as is, the alcohol is absolutely going to undergo chemical changes over time. So storing it as is in the bottle is not the best way of preserving that evidence. I'd have to research further, but what they probably did was measure the amount in the bottle, test the contents to see if they were at all remarkable (they probably weren't), then preserve a small sample if they felt it was necessary. But anyway, the point remains that it's not clear if the bottles were empty in the apartment or not.

I think as far as the chance being taken, I think delaying a minute or two to clean yourself up (so it's not obvious at a glance that you just committed a murder) is an acceptable risk. Also, though, this wasn't a case where they just jumped in the car together; someone arrived and took someone else away. That suggestive of a longer trip.
 
BBM
Actually, if they just put the bottle in the evidence locker as is, the alcohol is absolutely going to undergo chemical changes over time. So storing it as is in the bottle is not the best way of preserving that evidence. I'd have to research further, but what they probably did was measure the amount in the bottle, test the contents to see if they were at all remarkable (they probably weren't), then preserve a small sample if they felt it was necessary. But anyway, the point remains that it's not clear if the bottles were empty in the apartment or not.

I think as far as the chance being taken, I think delaying a minute or two to clean yourself up (so it's not obvious at a glance that you just committed a murder) is an acceptable risk. Also, though, this wasn't a case where they just jumped in the car together; someone arrived and took someone else away. That suggestive of a longer trip.[/QUOTE I would think anyone staking out the place that well would know how many people lived there. Also the best time to rob them would have been when they both were at Thrill.
 
I would think anyone staking out the place that well would know how many people lived there. Also the best time to rob them would have been when they both were at Thrill.

The perp specifically staking out their apartment and having detailed knowledge about them wasn't what I was proposing, though. I was saying it was a crime of opportunity, where the perp happened to observe someone leaving the apartment, getting into a car and riding off, and then deciding to burgle (there's a fun word you don't get to use often!) the place. It was a one bedroom, so once he found the door unlocked, there'd be no reason to expect someone else to be there.
 
How did he surmise so quickly she lived there and wasn't a guest ?

He probably just made an assumption and took a risk, which is inherent in any sort of criminal activity. The type of person I'm talking about is a petty sneak thief who's always on the look-out for an easy score. He sees someone leave a one bedroom apartment in a bit of a rush, get into a waiting car, and drive away. He sees an opportunity. He checks the door, finds it unlocked, and goes in to grab a couple of things. It turns out, he made a very bad assumption and the whole thing went horribly wrong. He's gone the next day, and since police believed it was a different kind of crime than it was, he gets very lucky that his trail goes cold before they make a serious attempt to question the neighbors.

Just to reiterate, IMO that scenario totally explains why the crime remains unsolved. Police spent the first few months believing that it had to be one of these men in Faith's life who had obvious motives to kill her. Then the DNA didn't match any of them. So then by the six month mark, they're looking at people from the Thrill and exploring that angle, along with a few other men along the periphery of her circle. None of them match either. One of the Gaspo blog posts mentioned that police didn't get around to seriously questioning the neighbors or other people in the complex until September 2013, and it's mentioned that a lot of people have moved in the meantime. I'm believing that, if in the week after the murder, they'd knocked on every door in Hawthorne and the adjacent complex, they'd have found someone who said "Oh, no, sorry I don't know anything. You could ask my friend, but he moved out this week, kind of unexpectedly. Huh."
 
He probably just made an assumption and took a risk, which is inherent in any sort of criminal activity. The type of person I'm talking about is a petty sneak thief who's always on the look-out for an easy score. He sees someone leave a one bedroom apartment in a bit of a rush, get into a waiting car, and drive away. He sees an opportunity. He checks the door, finds it unlocked, and goes in to grab a couple of things. It turns out, he made a very bad assumption and the whole thing went horribly wrong. He's gone the next day, and since police believed it was a different kind of crime than it was, he gets very lucky that his trail goes cold before they make a serious attempt to question the neighbors.

Just to reiterate, IMO that scenario totally explains why the crime remains unsolved. Police spent the first few months believing that it had to be one of these men in Faith's life who had obvious motives to kill her. Then the DNA didn't match any of them. So then by the six month mark, they're looking at people from the Thrill and exploring that angle, along with a few other men along the periphery of her circle. None of them match either. One of the Gaspo blog posts mentioned that police didn't get around to seriously questioning the neighbors or other people in the complex until September 2013, and it's mentioned that a lot of people have moved in the meantime. I'm believing that, if in the week after the murder, they'd knocked on every door in Hawthorne and the adjacent complex, they'd have found someone who said "Oh, no, sorry I don't know anything. You could ask my friend, but he moved out this week, kind of unexpectedly. Huh."

It’s interesting how we’re all focused on different things to reach our scenarios:

CADwrest focuses on the case remaining unsolved all this time pointing toward a stranger scenario.
I'm focusing on male DNA, rage, and proximity to Thrill-attendance pointing to a perp(s) from there.
Others focus on KR’s statements/behavior/911call to point fingers her way.
Some focus on the bagnote and what it may mean for who and what motive must be involved.
Some still focus on the butt-dial call for their conclusions about what transpired.
Perhaps some are still focused on Eric Takoy’s statements and behavior as telling.
…and I wonder if there aren’t likely some key pieces of evidence LE has never even revealed yet?
One thing for sure, we can’t all be right! ;)
 
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