NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

Discussion in 'Past Trial Discussion Threads' started by hockeymom, Nov 2, 2003.

  1. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    bbm

    Yes, hollyjokers, and it also shows how horribly hard he must have swung that club at her -- he broke both her arms!! That's just beyond belief what hate and misogyny must have been behind that raw energy. If she hadn't defended herself as she did, I am fully confident he would have split her skull open.

    Jeffrey MacDonald was so unbelievably cruel to the three people in this world he should have loved and protected the most. He should sit in his cell and simply be glad he is alive.
     


  2. madeleine

    madeleine Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it was premeditated,IMO it all happened in a moment of rage,he didn't want another baby,it already was too much for him.But I also don't think he regrets anything,what he did after the crime is pretty telling....and what he still does,he's a cold blooded,manipulative liar.To me the most telling piece of evidence always was the shirt with the stab wounds on it,no other explanation for it,those are NOT defensive wounds as he claims!That shirt was placed on Colette before she was stabbed (again),NOT to cover her body outta care after the "intruders" killed her!
     
  3. hollyjokers

    hollyjokers New Member

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    That's pretty obvious considering he told the first psychiatrist - what was it, less than 3 months later? - that he felt relieved they were gone! And the psychiatrist getting this admission thought it perfectly normal.
     
  4. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    ITA, Mad. That shirt, that shirt, out, out dayammed shirt! He threw it over her so that the blood that was on that dayammed shirt would make sense -- he knew that a lot of the blood of all three of the deceased was on that pj top, especially Collette's; he had to cover that up. When he went back into the MBR, he was still in a rage & he went at her again with the ice pick. He didn't even stop long enuff to think about that pj shirt, he just jabbed away, in hate & in rage. A fatal error, I think we would all agree.

    He may regret some of the things he did: the pj top error, not enuff of his blood in the LR, being too wimpy to inflict more injury upon himself, but no, Maddie, I am confident he has never regretted one thing that he did that night.

    And he couldn't get to California's sun quickly enuff. Swimmin' pools, movie stars. A condo with lots of mirrors (of course), a big boat (How big is yours?), a Maserati, lotsa bling, and girls, girls, girls. This was the life he should have been living all these years. So many women, so little time!

    A Narcissist of high order, and a world-class sociopath. All IMO.
     
  5. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    FYI, there are 2 Madeleines posting on this thread. I am Mad74 and the other madeleine is someone else entirely. Note the different avatars (in case any of you are confused as to who is posting).
     
  6. sandybeach1267

    sandybeach1267 New Member

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    I totally agree! Although I have posted about the possibility of JM being innocent, I am always one to play devil's advocate. I do believe that he is guilty and think that anyone convicted of crimes of this nature should be given life. Not that I don't believe in the death penalty but it seems that having to live behind bars with what you did for YEARS is a more fitting punishment than being given the peace of death. I do wonder about the diet pill factor as it seems that in quite a few of these cases they have been taken. I wonder if the combination of the pills and no sleep may cause these people to question whether or not they did the crime. I think they realize that they did but maybe they have no real explanation for how or why! JMO :blushing:
     
  7. Blondie in Spokane

    Blondie in Spokane Well-Known Member

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    After 35 years, 'Fatal Vision' author, killer meet again

    Joe McGinniss could not believe his eyes. The man he saw in a North Carolina courtroom last week was stooped and shackled, hardly the same smooth and swaggering Jeffrey MacDonald who had told his story so many years ago.

    To say the author and the convicted killer have a history would be an understatement. If anything, their first face-to-face meeting in 35 years was anticlimactic.



    http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/29/justice/mcginniss-macdonald-appeal/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
     
  8. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Maybe they're both nutz....
     
  9. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    :maddening:Just watched Fatal Vision again, and I am re-riled up!!! :maddening:

    Gary Cole does a great job of conveying his arrogance, conceit and disdainful attitude of everything around him except his own shining self.

    Poor Colette, having to live with a man like that -- I got the impression, from the FV book, that his growing-up household was very masculine-oriented. Both he & his brother were good athletes & that seemed to be IT within their walls. His sister could only be a spectator and only had to add to the the worship of males by being a mere bystander. I think he brought this attitude into his little female-heavy house, and Collette would not always sit, stay or roll over when he demanded it, and that added to his pent-up anger and feelings of entrapment. There was a lot going on in that little household.... JMO
     
  10. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    Aired March 14, 2006

    BARRY SCHECK, CO-FOUNDER, INNOCENCE PROJECT: Yes.

    KING: Do you believe Jeffrey MacDonald is innocent?

    SCHECK: Well, I think that what's become clear from the evidence that has been adduced since the trial is I don't think he got a fair trial. You know, I'm not somebody that can tell you except in a case where there's a DNA test that can absolutely prove who did it or who didn't, anything about guilt or innocence with that kind of certainty.

    It's not that kind of case. It's a circumstantial evidence case. But what I can tell you, Larry, is that these DNA results are good. The fingernail of Kristen, which had the hair on it that had a root, that's helpful evidence. There's a long pubic hair, it was described as a pubic hair, that was found between Colette's legs

    That is unmatched, that's a third party's hair. And then there's another one in a bed sheet. The fact that there were some of his hairs found on or in her hand doesn't mean much, because he was trying to resuscitate her.

    But what you really have to focus on and I think Kathryn said it well is that the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, federal circuit, has finally remanded this case for a hearing. And the key piece of evidence is the show you did before, it's that Marshal Britt, who has said that the prosecutor in this case, Mr. Blackburn, intimidated Stoeckley so she suddenly said she had amnesia and did not corroborate MacDonald's statement, which he made right away about the woman in the floppy hat and the others who came in and committed the crime.

    The fact that this man is coming forward, that he made prior consistent statements to others about what he saw the prosecutor did, is very, very disturbing to the courts. It's extremely unusual that a case like this would be remanded for this kind of an evidentiary hearing.

    The DNA evidence is going to help him. But all of a sudden, what happens now is that lots of other evidence has been built up over time, will also help. The fact that there are a number of unmatched fingerprints at the crime scene, 17 of them -- 11 fingerprints, some palm prints.

    The fact that there were these unmatched black fibers that were on the murder weapon and on Colette, which again are consistent with the third party theory. All these other pieces of evidence, the long blonde wig hair that was found at the scene, all of a sudden all can be considered at one time in this evidentiary hearing in front of the judge. So I think he's got a real good shot.

    KING: Would it be a new trial?

    SCHECK: Yes, it would be a new trial. But it's hard to see how he could be retried again after all these years. In order for him to have gotten to this stage, the Fourth Circuit has to believe that there's very good, new, substantial evidence consistent with his innocence, consistent with showing that he got an unfair trial.

    And if Britt is believed at evidentiary hearing and Blackburn, who after all was disbarred and pled guilty to an embezzlement and obstruction of justice, is not believed, which is something that could very well happen given these facts, Jeffrey MacDonald has a good chance.

    Because when you add this new DNA, you look at the fiber evidence, you look at the old fingerprint evidence, you look at the wig hairs, you look at all these things that are built up over time, it raises some serious concerns about this case.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0603/14/lkl.01.html
     
  11. hollyjokers

    hollyjokers New Member

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    Helena Stoekley did not "suddenly claim she had amnesia." She never confessed to a single person with direct ties to the case and the version she told investigators, prosecutors, defense attorneys, "I don't remember where I was that night." was the most consistent.
    I'm so sick of the Helena Stoekley garbage: her hair, fingerprints, DNA were not found in the house. The synthetic hairs were from Colette's fall & the girls' dolls. Helena Stoekley had as much to do with what went on in 544 Castle Drive that night as I did - and I wasn't born yet.
    Barry Scheck is about as reliable as Noguchi & any other for hire expert, slanting the evidence to make it more compelling. "the pubic hair found between Colette's legs." it was on the carpet, in an army base housing unit. They said Colette wasn't a great housekeeper. When investigators were combing through the carpet, TRYING to find a single pajama fiber in the living room, all they could find was Christmas tinsel.
     
  12. hollyjokers

    hollyjokers New Member

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    Did they test the club for touch DNA & find someone other than MacD's genetic fingerprint on it? Because if you're swinging a splintery piece of wood hard enough to crack a little girl's skull & break a woman's arms, I'm sure you're leaving some trace of yourself behind. But Scheck & Kathryn don't want you to think of that. They're merely looking for a loophole.
     
  13. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    If we all want a fair trial, shouldn't they test all of it again? That would at least do away with any residual worries with regard to DNA, prints, etc., etc. Seems right to me...
     
  14. believe09

    believe09 Well-Known Member

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    It's all about the money, imo. the state isnt going to volunteer to retest evidence for a crime that has already been appealed to the SJC and shot down. MacDonald isnt looking for truth and justice-he is looking for a new trial and hopes that in some way any of this equates to reasonable doubt.

    He will never look in the mirror and see that blood covered ******* who slaughtered three innocent females. He refuses to face the truth of what he was and has always been. IMO. All of this nonsense is because he somehow believes that people will buy what he has been selling for years and somehow that means he is really innocent.

    Ala FICA. She thinks because she was found not guilty, she isnt guilty of murdering Caylee.
     
  15. believe09

    believe09 Well-Known Member

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    My apologies for believing that the Innocence project wouldnt touch MacDonald-I have now lost whatever respect I had for Scheck if he pushed for this. Let him pay to have it retested and then submit the results.
     
  16. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Loved this post, believe! A simple push on the Thanks button was not enuff. Yes, it would cost lotsa money and take lotsa time -- that's why there are usually two forensic experts, two psych experts, etc., etc., and each is paid by the side who wants them done -- so pay up Dr Mac! The Feds (and all of us) have already done it -- I guess the MacD bunch didn't like 'em.... Just because they say they have this and that new evidence doesn't prove a dayam thing. [​IMG]:maddening:
     
  17. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    What I find extremely rare is all four blood type belonged to this one family.

    Since back in the 70s they could only type the blood found has all the forensic blood evidence ever been retested to show who's blood it actually belonged to now that a DNA profile is available? Now forensic scientists are using touch DNA and they dont even have to see the stain with the naked eye to get a DNA profile.

    O blood type is known as the universal blood type because so many have type O.
    A
    B
    AB which is the rarest blood type.

    I suspected it hasnt been retested and that would only happen if JM was given a new trial which I dont believe is going to happen. But I thought I would ask.

    IMO
     
  18. hollyjokers

    hollyjokers New Member

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    Now you're talking, OBE! The financial burden of retesting all of the blood falls on MacDonald because the state has already proven its case. Colette had skin tissue under her fingernail, which, if it had not been lost, would have closed the books on this case in 1970. Kristen also had defensive wounds so the "assailant(s)" likely left traces of their own blood behind as well. So if you were innocent, (and I believe, unlike most inmates who are indigent, he & Kathryn control his mother's estate which was worth about $800k if I remember correctly) wouldn't you be testing the crap out of things like the sheets & bedspread in Kristen's room, Colette's pajamas, the weapons, the Hilton bath mat? A couple stray hairs & fibers and the tired old HS confessions don't sound like a person proclaiming their innocence as much as one hoping to get off on a technicality.
    IMO
     
  19. JulieR

    JulieR New Member

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    Wilmington, N.C. — The North Carolina Center on Actual Innocence, which has worked to free inmates believed to be wrongfully convicted, has offered to help pay for DNA testing in a high-profile triple murder on Fort Bragg 41 years ago.

    http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/10162316/
    ( I will try and find where I read it but they weren't allowed to retest any blood evidence.)



    In 1979, only blood typing existed, not DNA testing. Jeffrey, Colette and their daughters all had different blood types, so prosecutors could recreate which people were in which rooms together.

    But, Mumma asks, what if the blood types belonged to people outside the MacDonald home?

    "There's evidence that I think would be worth testing to determine if there's DNA evidence not tied to family members – or that does," she said. "The DNA testing may completely confirm the government's theory."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/15/jeffrey-macdonald-dna_n_1886547.html
     
  20. believe09

    believe09 Well-Known Member

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    Sure, test it. How many inmates have gone to the mat for DNA testing that showed they did it?

    Be forewarned MacDonald-what is your fall back position when it turns out that it all belongs to you? All the evidence listed by hollyjokers?

    The thing is, what does it even mean if a hair or two doesnt belong to MacDonald? Truly, with all of the other overwhelming evidence?

    These children and this woman deserve so much more than this. If he were any kind of a man he would let them rest in peace and finish his time. It is abundantly clear he isnt really any kind of anything but a black hearted murderer of women and children. IMVHO.


    It is all in the hands of the judge now.
     

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