NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

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I'd like to know why anyone would offer to help pay for anything when he (JM) received what? $300,000.00 from his law suit with Joe McGinniss? He can darn well pay for it himself. :banghead:
 
He didn't get anywhere near that amount of money from the McGinniss lawsuit. His attorney got the biggest part of it, then Freddy & Mildred Kassab invoked the Son of Sam law so they got about $50k & his mother got a similar share. Shortly before she died, she made Jeff executor of her estate (dementia?). He gave Jay & Judy meager allowances (Judy has since passed away), and the bulk of the estate is held in the MacDonald Family Trust (aka Jeffy's defense fund).
 
It's pathetic that the Innocence Project would use funding that could help truly wrongly convicted people for MacDonald, who has the means to do it himself.
I guess the boon in publicity they could get from potentially springing someone as notorious as MacDonald makes it worth their while.
 
It's very interesting that so few items are the ones MacD wants to test. Nothing with blood evidence on it. A few hairs? That will prove absolutely nothing. They had dinner parties and guests and it was an apartment that had others live in it before them. Can you account for every hair, every fiber, every fingerprint in your house? Unless you live in an industrial clean room, you should expect there to be some evidence of other people in your house. Artifacts have to be tied to the crime not just exist in general for it to mean anything.

Test away.

I want to know why MacD isn't insisting the bathmat be tested, why the weapons aren't being tested, and why lots of things aren't being tested.

What random intruder would take a knife and an ice pick, go to the bathroom, wipe down those items on the bathmat after stabbing 3 people, including 2 babies, and then lay the bathmat over Collette's lower body? Such meticulous actions for a band of drug-crazed hippies who were supposedly high.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/29/justic...html?hpt=hp_c1

According to the above article, "Kristen, 2, was stabbed 48 times; a finger was nearly severed as she tried to fend off the blows,"

Any thoughts on why he stabbed the toddler 48 times? Makes me sick to read it. That is just pure evil. McDonald should have been stabbed 48 times with an ice pick as part of his sentence. Now that would have been justice!
 
fullmoon said:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/29/justic...html?hpt=hp_c1

According to the above article, "Kristen, 2, was stabbed 48 times; a finger was nearly severed as she tried to fend off the blows,"

Any thoughts on why he stabbed the toddler 48 times? Makes me sick to read it. That is just pure evil. McDonald should have been stabbed 48 times with an ice pick as part of his sentence. Now that would have been justice!
Click to expand...

I believe he did it to make her murder appear as brutal as Collette and Kim's, to support his story about Manson-like intruders. I always wondered if he stopped for even a minute to consider leaving Kristy alive, since she was hardly a threat to his story of what happened. I think the thought might have crossed his mind, but he would have immediately dismissed it - no way was he going to be the sole parent to a little girl.

I am re-reading Fatal Vision now, about 500 pages in. What strikes me now are the chapters where Jeff is talking about Collette and his life. He just sounds so narcassistic. Which, to be fair, he was talking about his life etc but even when he talks about Collette, its not about the essence of her, it's about how proud she was of him, how worried she was when he wasn't there, etc etc. I mean, the book was written in a very different time in which many women put all their own value into a man, but still. And he talked about how the kids were happy and oblivious to any tensions in the marriage. It was just the perfect life, and he was the center of it.

I have always had the opinion that if he had not killed them, I believe he would have divorced Collette once he started raking in the money. Or she would have finally had enough of his philandering and she would have left him.
 
Madeleine74 said:
It's very interesting that so few items are the ones MacD wants to test. Nothing with blood evidence on it. A few hairs? That will prove absolutely nothing. They had dinner parties and guests and it was an apartment that had others live in it before them. Can you account for every hair, every fiber, every fingerprint in your house? Unless you live in an industrial clean room, you should expect there to be some evidence of other people in your house. Artifacts have to be tied to the crime not just exist in general for it to mean anything.

Test away.

I want to know why MacD isn't insisting the bathmat be tested, why the weapons aren't being tested, and why lots of things aren't being tested.

What random intruder would take a knife and an ice pick, go to the bathroom, wipe down those items on the bathmat after stabbing 3 people, including 2 babies, and then lay the bathmat over Collette's lower body? Such meticulous actions for a band of drug-crazed hippies who were supposedly high.
Click to expand...

It was the Prosecution that would NOT allow any blood testing.............Micky D's camp wanted to test the blood evidence.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
What I find extremely rare is all four blood type belonged to this one family.

Since back in the 70s they could only type the blood found has all the forensic blood evidence ever been retested to show who's blood it actually belonged to now that a DNA profile is available? Now forensic scientists are using touch DNA and they dont even have to see the stain with the naked eye to get a DNA profile.

O blood type is known as the universal blood type because so many have type O.
A
B
AB which is the rarest blood type.

I suspected it hasnt been retested and that would only happen if JM was given a new trial which I dont believe is going to happen. But I thought I would ask.

IMO
Click to expand...

O blood type is known as the universal blood type because a person with that blood type can donate blood to any other blood type. Specifically O neg blood can be used for any person.

It was a stroke of luck that all the members of the MacDonald family were a different blood type. The story of the blood throughout the house and the blue pyjama top are key. If you look at the blood evidence, the pyjama top and fibre evidence you will understand what a liar Jeff MacDonald is.
 
Alice Bernadette said:
O blood type is known as the universal blood type because a person with that blood type can donate blood to any other blood type. Specifically O neg blood can be used for any person.

It was a stroke of luck that all the members of the MacDonald family were a different blood type. The story of the blood throughout the house and the blue pyjama top are key. If you look at the blood evidence, the pyjama top and fibre evidence you will understand what a liar Jeff MacDonald is.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Everything else is smoke and mirrors as far as I am concerned.
 
robinparten said:
I believe he did it to make her murder appear as brutal as Collette and Kim's, to support his story about Manson-like intruders. I always wondered if he stopped for even a minute to consider leaving Kristy alive, since she was hardly a threat to his story of what happened. I think the thought might have crossed his mind, but he would have immediately dismissed it - no way was he going to be the sole parent to a little girl.

I am re-reading Fatal Vision now, about 500 pages in. What strikes me now are the chapters where Jeff is talking about Collette and his life. He just sounds so narcassistic. Which, to be fair, he was talking about his life etc but even when he talks about Collette, its not about the essence of her, it's about how proud she was of him, how worried she was when he wasn't there, etc etc. I mean, the book was written in a very different time in which many women put all their own value into a man, but still. And he talked about how the kids were happy and oblivious to any tensions in the marriage. It was just the perfect life, and he was the center of it.

I have always had the opinion that if he had not killed them, I believe he would have divorced Collette once he started raking in the money. Or she would have finally had enough of his philandering and she would have left him.
Click to expand...

I'm re-reading it too, robin, and those little chapters that he pens are much more telling than he meant them to be, I'm sure. As I had said just a couple of posts ago, JM was raised in a family (not uncommon at the time) where the males were near-idolized, especially because both brothers were good athletes and because Jeff was good-looking and popular. What a perfect womb for a blooming Narcissist (this is NOT meant to excuse him or reduce his guilt in any way). He thought he was great & so did everybody else. And there are some who still do -- he can be quite a charmer, I'm sure.

Unless Collette had been able to wipe the wool out of her eyes, so to speak, or if she had caught him indisputably having an affair, I think she would have stuck by him. She saw & felt the slights, and had probably learned to overlook his little cutting remarks about & to her.... He was still hers. As for JM, three children & a wife would be pretty stiff support, even for a "rich" doctor. As long as he could dream up o/o/town medical conferences and other such overnight trips, he may have been able to stay married. And he could always work those "long hours in the office" every day and weekends at the hospital. Oh, he was such a conniving, cruel man, IMHO.
icon8.gif
 
Keep in mind that MacD and Collette were all of 21 when they got married (and pregnant to boot). It wasn't as uncommon then as it is now, but 21 is really young to be married. People change a lot in their 20's. Ever hear the term "starter marriage?" Many couples who marry that young divorce, it's a higher statistic than couples who wait until they are more settled. The odds of them having stayed married are pretty slim, given the whole women's lib thing that emerged in the 70's and MacD's whole swinging bachelor sideline. Even if he was a normal loving husband, they were both immature. But he wasn't normal and loving as we now know. He felt increasingly trapped and even before the murders did everything he could to spend time away -- working 2 and 3 jobs (perfect excuse "just providing for a growing family"), volunteering for all kinds of extra commitments, doing his sports on top of that, trying to be the manlyMan, lying so he could travel and have affairs...the guy deep down really did not want the family life...he only wanted the appearance of it.

MacD is really two things: a psychopath AND a narcissist. Not every psychopath is a narcissist and visa versa. He's just a special kind of evil -- slick charming exterior and empty and despicable beneath, ala Scott Peterson, OJ Simpson, and many others like them. The ends always justify the means.
 
Madeleine74 said:
It's very interesting that so few items are the ones MacD wants to test. Nothing with blood evidence on it. A few hairs? That will prove absolutely nothing. They had dinner parties and guests and it was an apartment that had others live in it before them. Can you account for every hair, every fiber, every fingerprint in your house? Unless you live in an industrial clean room, you should expect there to be some evidence of other people in your house. Artifacts have to be tied to the crime not just exist in general for it to mean anything.

Test away.

I want to know why MacD isn't insisting the bathmat be tested, why the weapons aren't being tested, and why lots of things aren't being tested.

What random intruder would take a knife and an ice pick, go to the bathroom, wipe down those items on the bathmat after stabbing 3 people, including 2 babies, and then lay the bathmat over Collette's lower body? Such meticulous actions for a band of drug-crazed hippies who were supposedly high.
Click to expand...

BBM

That is not exactly true Madeleine.

They have asked for all of the weapons so they can be tested.

They have a very long list of things they want to test and most of it is blood evidence.

Here is the complete list. Over 50 items requested and the majority with blood on them.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/dna-request-2011-10-10.html
 
Madeleine74 said:
Keep in mind that MacD and Collette were all of 21 when they got married (and pregnant to boot). It wasn't as uncommon then as it is now, but 21 is really young to be married. People change a lot in their 20's. Ever hear the term "starter marriage?" Many couples who marry that young divorce, it's a higher statistic than couples who wait until they are more settled. The odds of them having stayed married are pretty slim, given the whole women's lib thing that emerged in the 70's and MacD's whole swinging bachelor sideline. Even if he was a normal loving husband, they were both immature. But he wasn't normal and loving as we now know. He felt increasingly trapped and even before the murders did everything he could to spend time away -- working 2 and 3 jobs (perfect excuse "just providing for a growing family"), volunteering for all kinds of extra commitments, doing his sports on top of that, trying to be the manlyMan, lying so he could travel and have affairs...the guy deep down really did not want the family life...he only wanted the appearance of it.

MacD is really two things: a psychopath AND a narcissist. Not every psychopath is a narcissist and visa versa. He's just a special kind of evil -- slick charming exterior and empty and despicable beneath, ala Scott Peterson, OJ Simpson, and many others like them. The ends always justify the means.
Click to expand...

Im not sure I beleive that he is a psychopath and a narcissist even if he did kill them. Only ONE out of 5 doctors who evaluated him extensively came to that conclusion and that doctor was 83 years old and had recently had a stroke, iirc. The others said just the opposite. That he was actually co-dependent, passive, and not sure of himself. He put on this tough bravado exterior to hide his weaknesses.

imo
 
I think all of the stab wounds on Kristy were part of the overkill.

I lost, long ago, my last copy of Fatal Vision. I was at a second hand book store a few days ago and what leaped off the shelf at me but a brand new copy, lol.

I re read it and then re read passages again. One of the things that struck me most in the fact checking by McGuinniss was all of the fairy stories MacDonald told him about when he reconnected with Colette. Words after words after words...like saying it made it so. And how they were all lies, from the day they reconnected when they were in college to the trips they took. Crap.

Stombaugh's version of what happened that night doesnt make complete sense to me, however. I think Kristy was killed much earlier. I dont see her laying there while Jeff clubs Colette repeatedly, to the point of breaking her arms, bleeding to death on Kristy's bed, and that Kristy laid passively there while Jeff wrapped Colette up and carried her into the master bedroom.

Witnesses said she was a tiger-that she protected Kimmy from being bullied.

I have a hard time imagining Jeff carrying Kimmy and the club into Kimmy's bedroom. Kimmy wasnt going to wake up from that first skull fracture. How did he carry her and the club too?

I think Kimmy was the last to die, fwiw. I think that he put Kimmy in her bed and went back to the living room, looked at the magazine, went to the kitchen to get the knife and the gloves, went back to Kristy's room with the club and the knife and found Colette there.

I think Colette laid on the bed bleeding while he murdered Kristy.

What a monster, even if he was passive, dependent, with latent homosexual and feminine tendencies.
 
hollyjokers said:
A pretty in-depth Vanity Fair article from 1998 - another case of the author seeming to buy MacDonald's story initially then slowly gravitating toward the inevitable. Just wish it included some of the beefcake pictures he sends to his adoring female groupies. EEWWW!!!


http://m.vanityfair.com/magazine/archive/1998/07/macdonald199807
Click to expand...

from your link hollyjokers

With a relieved sigh, MacDonald extracts his prize, a lined sheet of tablet paper topped in doctor's scrawl by the word "Points." He scans the items below, then leans in close. "I'm running out of steam," he says, voice cracking. "This is my last chance."
Click to expand...

If only. Every time I see his name, I think about Colette, Kristy and Kimmy. I wish they could rest in peace. I mean I know they are beyond his reach and ours, but it degrades them imo every time he manages to get the spotlight shining on him.
 
Here's an interesting take on McDonald's statements re the murders by former Secret Service man and statement analysis expert Mark McClish:

http://www.statementanalysis.com/macdonald/

"When we look at MacDonald's language, we have to conclude that he is being deceptive and that he is responsible for the deaths of his wife and kids. "

I gave McDonald the benefit of a doubt for many years. But the blood evidence speaks too loudly for me to continue to do so, it tells the story of who was where, and this does not match McDonald's statements. I think he was complicit in and/or responsible for the crime.

The and/or above is only there because I also believe Stoeckley was in the house, at some point. I think she knew McDonald a bit better than either will admit to, for whatever reasons. Did he make her complicit and then throw her under a bus? Was it agreed she'd take the fall, since she had some kind of immunity thing going on at the time (for drugs, not murder, but perhaps she thought she was safe).

This thought just occurred to me this evening so I haven't put a lot of thought to it. But it might explain the fibers.. the black wool (she was wearing a black skirt) and the synthetic hair matching the wig she was seen in that night, not far from the house. Could they have been having an affair? A sex for drugs swap? I would not put that past either of them....

I think I'll have to look through all the material again with this thought in mind.
 
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