NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

[Aleph]

Well hey, Martin Sheen is now going to do a documentary that OJ is innocent, another person who has lost their mind!

!!!

Ok, I need to research this. That's bananas!


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[Bunny]

The 4th Circuit has just granted MacDonald a certificate of appealability re: his motion to vacate, and ordered that the appendix and opening brief be filed by May 16.

http://www.crimearchives.net/1979_macdonald/uploads/uploads.html

It'll be interesting to see what Zeszotarski can come up with in a brief. I don't expect much, but we'll see. As I said on another board, Mac's been shooting BB guns against howitzers for quite a while now, and I don't think this will be any different.

www.themacdonaldcase.com

 

[Madeleine74]

The 4th Circuit is never going to say 'no' this killer, are they? I'm convinced they're going to play this merry-go-round-boomarang appeal game until he eventually dies.

 

[Murtagh21]

BUNNY: Thanks for the update. In the past 7 years, this 4th Circuit Court has granted inmate a COA on every important issue, so their decision to allow inmate to argue Judge Fox's decision is par for the course. The hard part is ahead for inmate and involves a burden of proof that is "extraordinarily high." Good luck with that legal mountain climb, Joey Z.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

 

[Murtagh21]

In 2010, Joey Z argued that Judge Fox erred in not considering the Britt and DNA claims under the "evidence as a whole" umbrella. The 4th Circuit agreed that Judge Fox had erred, but this current legal battle is a whole different ballgame. Joey Z no longer has the "evidence as a whole" argument in his back pocket, so he has to prove that Judge Fox erred in denying inmate relief. Considering that Judge Fox followed the 4th Circuit's roadmap to a tee, I see Joey Z getting his butt kicked by both the government and the 4th Circuit Court.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

 

[Madeleine74]

no reasonable fact finder would deem inmate to be guilty of these horrific crimes.

you mean innocent

 

[Frankie Hellis]

I ran across this 2015 book authored by the lead CID agent in the original MacDonald case investigation. I've ordered a copy of this book and will provide a review of the MacDonald case material in the near future.

http://www.amazon.com/Covert-Ops-Tho...+were+the+days

?? I can't find any such book and your link doesn't work. I am quite interested in this book, if it is really available somewhere.

 

[Madeleine74]

Here it is

(Covert Ops: Those were the days my friends ; The Lives and Times of Covert US Army CID Agents)

 

[MsFacetious]

I guess there isn't a more recently updated thread on this.

http://people.com/crime/is-he-innoc...-convicted-of-killing-his-wife-and-daughters/

To this day, debate still rages over MacDonald’s guilt. On Jan. 26, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals will hear oral arguments on MacDonald’s claims of innocence.

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The newly discovered evidence includes: DNA tests on hairs found beneath one of Kristen’s fingernails, on her bedspread and beneath his wife; blonde wig hairs, 22 and 24 inches long, which the defense believes might match the female intruder MacDonald described; candle wax; black wool fibers found on one of the murder weapons, Colette’s biceps and her mouth that don’t match anything in the home — and multiple alleged confessions from two different suspects.

http://people.com/crime/jeffrey-macdonald-appeal-wife-kathryn/

 

[Satch]

I guess there isn't a more recently updated thread on this.

http://people.com/crime/is-he-innoc...-convicted-of-killing-his-wife-and-daughters/

To this day, debate still rages over MacDonald’s guilt. On Jan. 26, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals will hear oral arguments on MacDonald’s claims of innocence.

--------

The newly discovered evidence includes: DNA tests on hairs found beneath one of Kristen’s fingernails, on her bedspread and beneath his wife; blonde wig hairs, 22 and 24 inches long, which the defense believes might match the female intruder MacDonald described; candle wax; black wool fibers found on one of the murder weapons, Colette’s biceps and her mouth that don’t match anything in the home — and multiple alleged confessions from two different suspects.

http://people.com/crime/jeffrey-macdonald-appeal-wife-kathryn/

What I don't understand is that none of these claims by the defense are "new" evidence. Therefore, why does the Appellate Court keep allowing oral arguments on them? How many appeals does Macdonald have left? How often can he keep appealing?

Satch

 

[U2forever]

Pllllease, give it a rest, creeper. Your guilty as sin.
Always have been, always will be.



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[dawkins87]

Last night's "People Investigates" (they should stick to "investigating" Paris Hilton's sex life) was a disgrace--all of the people they interviewed were pro-Macdonald and NONE of the evidence proving Mac's guilt was presented. ID should be ashamed of itself!

 

[Red Viewfinder]

Isn't it interesting that both Macdonald and Darlie Routier were abusing diet pills when they killed their families?

 

[borndem]

Yes, indeed, Red Viewfinder, it is interesting. I cannot remember the name of the med MacD was taking, but the pharm company that offered it took it off the market after reports from doctors prescribing that it was found to produce bad results in some people who were taking it. I'll try to remember what it was called and come back here and reference.

It was a "speed" - type drug combined with a tranquilizer. At the time of the MacD murders, J.MacD was working, of course at the Army base, and he was moonlighting in two different hospitals, so he "needed" the speed to stay awake and to be able to work, and he wanted to lose some weight, too, IIRC. I do remember that he had been awake for 26 straight hours that night...

Ahh, yes, now I remember.... It was Eskatrol:

Eskatrol was an amphetamine weight loss agent which was removed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 1981 after its manufacturer,[SUP][1][/SUP] SmithKline & French,[SUP][2][/SUP] was unable to prove the drug's effectiveness. At the time it was among the 200 most widely prescribed drugs in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskatrol
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This link shows MacD's "diary" where he mentions possibly taking Eskatrol that night:
http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/1970_mac-on-murder.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------

And this from Joe McGinnis, author of Fatal Vision in an interview with Mike Wallace:

Joe McGinniss: In his own handwriting, in notes prepared for his own attorneys, he goes into great detail about his consumption of a drug called Eskatrol, which is no longer on the market. It was voluntarily withdrawn in 1980 because of dangerous side effects. Among the side effects of this drug are, when taken to excess by susceptible individuals, temporary psychosis, often manifested as a rage reaction. Here we have somebody under enormous pressure and he’s taking enough of this Eskatrol, enough amphetamines, so that by his own account, he’s lost 15 pounds in the three weeks leading up to the murders.

http://www.edrants.com/tag/eskatrol/

It does make one wonder, doesn't it?

 

[Satch]

Yes, indeed, Red Viewfinder, it is interesting. I cannot remember the name of the med MacD was taking, but the pharm company that offered it took it off the market after reports from doctors prescribing that it was found to produce bad results in some people who were taking it. I'll try to remember what it was called and come back here and reference.

It was a "speed" - type drug combined with a tranquilizer. At the time of the MacD murders, J.MacD was working, of course at the Army base, and he was moonlighting in two different hospitals, so he "needed" the speed to stay awake and to be able to work, and he wanted to lose some weight, too, IIRC. I do remember that he had been awake for 26 straight hours that night...

Ahh, yes, now I remember.... It was Eskatrol:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskatrol
-------------------------------------------------------------------

This link shows MacD's "diary" where he mentions possibly taking Eskatrol that night:
http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/1970_mac-on-murder.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------

And this from Joe McGinnis, author of Fatal Vision in an interview with Mike Wallace:


http://www.edrants.com/tag/eskatrol/

It does make one wonder, doesn't it?

Personally,

I never believed the Esktrol theory. This was an argument between Jeff and Collette over Kim's wetting the Master Bedroom Bed. One thing lead to another and Collette picked up that hairbrush, threw it at Jeff, bruising his forehead and that set off the attack by him. Jeff intended to violently hurt Collette with the wooden club. Kim walked in on the fighting, and the blow meant to hurt Collette struck Kim, and at that point, there was no going back that could be done. The knife found in the Master Bedroom, I believe was used by Collette in self defense.

Satch

 

[borndem]

Personally,

I never believed the Esktrol theory. As you said, it was an argument between Jeff and Collette over Kim's wetting the Master Bedroom Bed. One thing lead to another and Collette picked up that hairbrush, threw it at Jeff, bruising his forehead and that set off the attack by him. Jeff intended to violently hurt Collette with the wooden club. Kim walked in on the fighting, and the blow meant to hurt Collette struck Kim, and at that point, there was no going back that could be done. The knife found in the Master Bedroom, I believe was used by Collette in self defense.

Satch

Yes, that is the scenario that the investigators felt was what happened from the evidence -- as you said, it was Kim who came to bed with her mom and she was the one who wet the bed, not little Kristie (spelling?) as MacD told everyone.

I think the Eskatrol fits in nicely with this scenario -- he was understandably tired from his long work day, tired of being married & being a father, and then, something she said set him off, or Kim's wetting the bed (again) set him off. He flew into a rage and tangled with poor Collette, etc. He could have, possibly, IMO, been enraged at Kim & Colleen went against him to protect Kim. IMO, his actions during & after the fight with Collette and all the murders -- rushing around, having to kill his daughters, then (barely) hurting himself with the cut in his chest, the paranoia of it all, reading in the magazine (was it GQ??) what had happened concerning the Tate murders, trying to stage the scene, etc., etc. -- all of that definitely sounds like what someone on speed would do. JMHO.

 

[Satch]

Yes, that is the scenario that the investigators felt was what happened from the evidence -- as you said, it was Kim who came to bed with her mom and she was the one who wet the bed, not little Kristie (spelling?) as MacD told everyone.

I think the Eskatrol fits in nicely with this scenario -- he was understandably tired from his long work day, tired of being married & being a father, and then, something she said set him off, or Kim's wetting the bed (again) set him off. He flew into a rage and tangled with poor Collette, etc. He could have, possibly, IMO, been enraged at Kim & Colleen went against him to protect Kim. IMO, his actions during & after the fight with Collette and all the murders -- rushing around, having to kill his daughters, then (barely) hurting himself with the cut in his chest, the paranoia of it all, reading in the magazine (was it GQ??) what had happened concerning the Tate murders, trying to stage the scene, etc., etc. -- all of that definitely sounds like what someone on speed would do. JMHO.

The Magazine was Esquire,

It had an article about the Manson Murders. I recall that drops of Macdonald's blood were found on or near the magazine, and McDonald was able to use this story to conjure up that drug-crazed hippies broke into his house, injuring him and killing his family.

Satch

 

[EA18G]

Remember the case well; lived in NC when it happened. I have personally always thought he was innocent.

 

[Satch]

Remember the case well; lived in NC when it happened. I have personally always thought he was innocent.

Greetings,

I wrote papers from both Prosecution and Defense Viewpoints on the MacDonald case, and am open to a discussion of both sides. I went from, not sure, to innocent, to guilty over a period of about twenty five years. This case has always had great interest to me.

Satch

 

[Aleph]

He's on the cover of some magazine this week, I noticed. I'm surprised he still gets any attention at all. I feel certain of his guilt; I'm surprised anyone feels differently. But Errol Morris does, for one.


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