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NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

Discussion in 'Past Trial Discussion Threads' started by hockeymom, Nov 2, 2003.

  1. wendybtn

    wendybtn Well-Known Member

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    When did they do the updated DNA testing? Back in 1970 you could only tell blood type of blood, not whose it was. I did not know they saved a limb hair and were able to get DNA out of it! That's fantastic!
     
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  2. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Exactly -- being an emergency room physician, he certainly knew where to insert a scalpel to relieve a pneumothorax (or to give himself one), how to use a scalpel to clean a deep/dirty wound, or to perform a tracheostomy, or lance an infected area, etc., etc. He knew exactly how and where to ''stab" himself to inflict the least amount of damage and pain. That's why he went into the bathroom, IMO -- the light was probably the best there, and he could use the mirror to help him locate the precise place to wound himself -- his blood type was found there, IIRC. Also, IIRC, he didn't even merit a stitch in the ER.

    That's what happens when a sociopath/narcissist assumes the other doctors/investigators and everyone else is not as smart as he he thinks he is.

    He is where he ought to be for life -- he took three lives, plus a fetus. Grrrrrrr.
     
  3. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Welcome to Websleuths, deebell510 and Paul B !!!
    We're glad to have both of you with us!!
     
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  4. zencompass

    zencompass Well-Known Member

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    Having watched his behavior over the years, I would say he will always believe that he has "fooled" the authorities - because J.M. is superior to everyone in intelligence! Well, in his mind he is! I think he thinks they will "come to their senses and realize he is innocent".

    To me, he never seemed like an innocent person from the first I heard of this case until now, after having read transcripts, books, interviews, etc. over the years. Nothing J.M. said made sense to me.

    This was such a horrific and deeply hateful personal attack. Such devastatingly evil acts. Difficult to believe a human could do this .
     
  5. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    He was tired of being tied down in his marriage, especially with another baby coming soon. He had been up for 26 hours straight, working two part-time ER jobs and doing his regular Army/Green Beret duties. He was tired, he went to bed and it was wet, he was angry and frustrated, and he said he may have taken Eskatrol, according to his own hand-written diary. Eskatrol was taken off the market. The article below mentions it.

    This article is a review of study by Janet Malcolm entitled, The Journalist and the Murderer, which deals with the ethics of journalism. It mentions MacD being interviewed by Mike Wallace, and about Joe McGinnis writing Fatal Vision -- it's not new (July 2014) -- but it mentions McGinnis writing about MacD possibly taking Eskatrol and about lots of other things.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Journalist and the Murderer (Modern Library Nonfiction #97)
    ...
    Joe McGinniss: In his own handwriting, in notes prepared for his own attorneys, he goes into great detail about his consumption of a drug called Eskatrol, which is no longer on the market. It was voluntarily withdrawn in 1980 because of dangerous side effects. Among the side effects of this drug are, when taken to excess by susceptible individuals, temporary psychosis, often manifested as a rage reaction. Here we have somebody under enormous pressure and he’s taking enough of this Eskatrol, enough amphetamines, so that by his own account, he’s lost 15 pounds in the three weeks leading up to the murders.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    eskatrol

    ETA: Make no mistake -- I did not include this article to try to, in any way, mitigate or lessen the horror of what Jeff MacD did -- inexcusable, cold-blooded, selfish, and all the rest.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
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  6. Satch

    Satch Well-Known Member

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    Writing papers on this case for the past 25 years from both prosecution and defense views, my hypothesis is that this was a fight that began in the Master Bedroom about Kim wetting the bed, or it really could have been anything, It got violent, really violent. I think that what set Jeff off into a rage was that during the struggle, Collette picked up that hairbrush and threw it at him, bruising Jeff's forehead.

    Now in a true rage, Jeff found a wood slab club. Where he got it from in the house is not certain, but the test showed that it had the same composition as wood from inside the house. Prosecutors believe that Collette got the Geneva Forge knife to protect herself. She struck Jeff in the abdomen, and at some point, Jeff picked up that wooden club intending to hit Colette and hurt her badly. In sheer horror, Kim woke up and went to investigate the screaming and when she opened the door, the blow intended for Collette smashed into Kim's skull.

    Realizing that her injury was so severe, Jeff knew that if the rest of the family lived, they could be character witnesses against him so he was forced to kill them, because of Collette being beaten badly, she could report it, and Kristin, the toddler who had been asleep, it was theorized that Jeff killed her in cold blood, because for the rest of her life, she would remember that night and the horror of what she saw.

    This is why MacDonald had to make this look like a crazed hippie attack. He was able to use the article from the Esquire Magazine about the Manson murders, and his information about people that he knew when visiting Fire Island who resembled the alleged Hippies that Macdonald always claimed attacked him and killed the family. People have told me, "Well, what if there were no people resembling the Hippies or Esquire Magazine. Jeff, could have just made up a story of a burglary going bad."

    I never believed McGuinnes diet pills theory in Fatal Vision nor that Jeff had been molesting Kimberly. This was a fight that got out of hand over the bed-wetting. People have said that there have been many cases of domestic violence of children over bed-wetting arguments. McDonald could have become a fugitive and chosen to flee like John List, who was letter apprehended, or William Bradford Bishop, who murdered his family, set their bodies on fire, and was never found. But I think that he thought that running away would be an admission of guilt. There was enough uncertainty there, and some mistakes by the investigators where to many people, until most dug deeper thought that McDonald could be telling the truth of hippies breaking into his home and killing his family. But his story, no matter how hard he tries, does not support the evidence of the crime scene, the darkness of the home, the space in the living room where the attack was supposed to have happened between the couch and the coffee table, nor the graphic overkill of his family, compared to a few superficial wounds and scratches on McDonald's body. The partially collapsed lung, the most severe of McDonald's injuries, believed that as a doctor, he inflicted that on himself to cover up his crime.

    Satch
     
  7. zencompass

    zencompass Well-Known Member

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    "Life without a wife and kids" likely was in the back of his mind. He may have fantasized life without them. They weighed him down.

    I think the "monster" within him was unleashed when this fight began.

    Perfect opportunity. Plus, he could figure anything out later to tell the police - after all he was far superior in intelligence to anyone!
     
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  8. Hap

    Hap Wisher & Dreamer

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    Sadly, I think this is exactly what happened. JMcD = Evil, evil man.
     
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  9. blooboyy77

    blooboyy77 New Member

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    I must differ with BornDem on one thing. MacDonald took four lives, including a fetus. Pro-lifer here! :cool:

    My dad read Fatal Vision when I was a kiddo back in the 80s and over the years we had numerous discussions about the case. Every few years or so when February 17 came around he would say something like "well it was so-and-so years ago that Green Beret killed his family at Fort Bragg" and then we'd discuss what he had read in Fatal Vision. Well this year on February 17 I made up my mind to read it. I purchased the hardcover edition because my aging eyes needed larger print than that in my dad's paperback copy. Took me only a few days to read it and in some parts of it I was nearly moved to tears (OK, I'm a real marshmallow so I must admit it happened once or twice...).

    There's no doubt in my mind that MacDonald is guilty. The bloody footprint in Colette's blood exiting Kristen's room, traces of Kristen's blood on Colette's hands (meaning the poor woman lived long enough to know her husband had killed their daughters; can you imagine her heartbreak?), a speck of Kristen's blood on his glasses in the living room, Colette's and Kimberley's blood on the copy of Esquire magazine in the living room, the pajama fibers everywhere he said he wasn't wearing his pajama top, Colette's blood on the bedroom floor UNDER a suitcase possibly indicating he was thinking of running, and if they hear about that damn pony again their gonna puke, Bernie...

    These things and so much more convinced me beyond a doubt that Jeffrey MacDonald killed his family. I don't believe he meant to do it but it appears to me that he felt trapped into marrying Colette after Kimberley's conception and internalized a deep resentment toward them. Instinctively I sense that the only one he might have actually loved at all was Kristen. Also, I believe he worked so much at Fort Bragg because he couldn't stand being around his family, even preferring to go to Vietnam if he could! And all that work on very little sleep, amphetamines, eskatrol, and the responsibilities of fatherhood just exploded into violence that night. Even Helena Stoekley said only someone on speed could have done that to a child, and drugs was something she knew very well. And as to what all happened that night I believe Paul Stombaugh's theory hit the nail on the head or came pretty darn close to it.

    None of us sympathetic to the case want to believe a husband and father can do this to his wife and small children, including an unborn baby, but the evidence indicates Macdonald is guilty. And he nearly got away with it but his ex-father-in-law Mr. Freddy Kassab didn't let that happen. He wouldn't let it go and his years of efforts paid off. What a great man....

    To anybody reading this who still believes in MacDonald's innocence, please reconsider the evidence. His story is a fabrication! Hopefully within the fullness of time he will tell us the truth.

    Peace,

    Bloobear :cool:
     
  10. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    You are quite right, Bloobear -- he did end the promise of a new life for their third child -- and it was a boy which is what MacD wanted. Collette was obviously pregnant, so no way he could forget what he was doing to both his wife and his soon-to-be born son.
    Who knows what any one of his children might have done in his or her lifetime... Sadly, we will never know.
    And how many days has he had since that night he evilly and coolly stabbed the lives out of his family? Yes, in prison for most, but he has outlived them only because he wanted them out of his life. Grrrrrr.
    IMO, he will never admit to what he did. Never. I think he almost believes the lies he has been telling for these nearly 50 years.
    Peace. :)
     
  11. blooboyy77

    blooboyy77 New Member

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    Lol a fetus has a heartbeat therefore it has life, as did Colette's unborn baby whose heart in my estimation was the last of the four to stop beating. But I note, and greatly appreciate, the manner in which you express your belief while respecting mine, BornDem; you're first class, my friend... :cool:

    I've thought about this many times. As far as when the moment of death occured I think Kimberley died first, then Kristen, and upon finding Colette alive in Kristen's room, MacDonald killed her there and carried her back to the master bedroom, where in a matter of time the baby (or supposedly lifeless fetus) died when his little heart stopped beating. And in that quiet moment a sweet, innocent little family was gone.

    When I read that Colette called her mother wanting to come for a visit but Mrs. Kassab told her "wait until spring", immediately I could feel the pain she lived with for the rest of her life. My room was quiet with nothing but the sound of the fan, my attention was focused on those words and it goes without saying Mrs. K lived with a heavy conscience for nearly a quarter of a century until she passed on. The Kassabs were installing a pool which had been dug already but finishing it had been suspended until winter was over. She was afraid the girls would slip on the icy, snowy mud and fall in.

    I don't know about the rest of you who read Fatal Vision but it was a very moving experience for me. Just being around "the MacDonald" knowing what he was and what he did was a traumatizing experience for Joe McGinniss which anyone reading the last part of the book can see. And while it may be considered unethical having deceived MacDonald into believing the book was about his innocence, I'm glad he dared to tell the truth to the public and present us with a book packed cover to cover with facts and not a pack of MacDonald's lies....

    The only other work regarding this case I intend to read is Christina Masewicz's book Scales of Justice. She has spent many years keeping the public informed about this case through her website. And she maintains contact with Colette's brother Bob Stevenson who since Mr. Kassab's passing leads the fight to keep MacDonald in prison.

    Keep Colette, Kimberley, Kristen, and Colette's unborn baby boy in your hearts always and be sure to pass love on to your fellow humankind, as I intend to, because as in 1970 that is exactly what the world needs now... Love!

    Blooboyy :cool:
     
  12. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    A very fine post, blooboyy. Thanks. :) I am going to check into Masewicz's book -- I wasn't aware that she had one out!
     
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  13. Cherry

    Cherry Pie

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    Guilty, always was and will be.
     
  14. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Absolutely.
    That selfish, unfaithful, vain, lying, killer of children and of a sweet, beautiful, and devoted wife. So many birthdays and holidays that he has had and they have not. There will be a reckoning.
     
  15. Thepoet

    Thepoet Well-Known Member

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    Just read that MacDonald had a stroke. No details though. Anyone else heard anything?
     
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  16. Rocco

    Rocco Well-Known Member

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    Just curious, where did you read that? I've googled all the key words I can think of and haven't found anything.
     
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  17. zencompass

    zencompass Well-Known Member

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    I haven't found anything either yet.
     
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  18. Thepoet

    Thepoet Well-Known Member

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    In the JefferyMacDonaldcase.com/discuss/viewforum

    It was a post by a member. I've searched high and low also.
     
  19. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    I haven't seen anything, either. I'm still looking...
     
  20. Brubeck

    Brubeck Well-Known Member

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    As my granny would say, As guilty as **** on shingles!
     

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