GUILTY NC - PFC Kelli Bordeaux, 23, Fayetteville, 14 April 2012 - #11

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by bessie, Apr 29, 2012.

  1. lowes123

    lowes123 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    719
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Here it is:
    FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. — A teenager was in the Cumberland County Jail Monday night on $100,000 bond Monday night, accused of sexually assaulting a 5-year-old girl.

    Cumberland County deputies arrested 16-year-old Nicholas Holbert on Monday. Investigators said he assaulted the victim Sunday at her home.


    <modsnip>

    http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/103731/
     


  2. danzn16

    danzn16 For the missing

    Messages:
    3,667
    Likes Received:
    1,356
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sickening.

    Would a man that does that to children do anything to a woman? Or would only children be at risk?

    Usually the last person to see a victim is the key.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
     
  3. Chili Fries

    Chili Fries Man Sleuth

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    86
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Nick is probably what is known as a situational sex offender - basically someone who attacks the vulnerable, regardless of age. Here is more info:

    Situational type sex offenders victimizing children do not have a true sexual preference for children. They may molest them, however, for a wide variety of situational reasons. They are more likely to view and be aroused by adult pornography, but might engage in sex with children in certain situations. Situational sex offenders frequently molest readily available children that
    they have easy access to, such as their own or those they may live with or have control over. Pubescent teenagers are high-risk, viable sexual targets. Younger children may also be targeted because they are weak, vulnerable, or available.


    http://www.cac-kent.org/pdfs/Lanning_-_Suspect_Typology.pdf
     
  4. ktgirl

    ktgirl Verified College Instructor

    Messages:
    2,830
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I agree.
     
  5. Woe.be.gone

    Woe.be.gone Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,015
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    It's possible that NH is a situational rso. Still the response/comment doesn't speak to the details about NH I considered in my earlier post (regarding NH being the obvious perp but possibly not the right one).

    What is NH's sexual orientation in general? Any routine sex life whatsoever? Or, only the one attack on record - the little girl ten years prior. Did NH have a real sex life or participate in porn via computer, if so, what kind?

    When NH was 16, we know he attacked a five year old girl. He claims he and his sister were abused by a known RSO when he was seven (which is why I pointed out the link that I noticed). Studies show that if someone is abused as a child, they are more likely to become abusers. My purpose for pointing this out isn't to excuse the crime he committed - I'm trying to determine NH's profile and its relativity to Kelli's case.

    Kelli's profile would not conclude her as being a vulnerable target, meek and or mild. She would not go down without a fight; she would protest and resist if NH made unwanted advances toward her. Therefore she doesn't match the profile of NH's other known victim.
    On the other hand, Kelli may have been friendly, outgoing and too trusting for one reason or another. For instance, she may have overestimated her ability to fend for herself and underestimated the danger of getting in the car with someone who essentially was a stranger. Still, she wouldn't go down without a fight and NH would have had to disable her in some way first. That usually involves leaving behind some kind of evidence. We saw LE examining the vehicle belonging to the bar owner (though not said transport vehicle per local). Please tell me (memory lapse) that LE examined NH's vehicle (which, I believe, was still a mess the Monday after the crime).

    Yes, the last known person to be with the victim is often the culprit but not always. People aren't convicted on what is usually the case - at least they shouldn't be. Plus, I've wondered if someone else from the bar knew NH was driving Kelli so they positioned theirself nearby lying in wait. An opportunist.

    Then there's the timeline LE put out to the public for the earlier hour - awareness of something going on that may have looked normal but if LE knew about it may mean something to them. Like, someone lingering or hanging out nearby the bar? A vague request but LE must have asked the question for a suspected reason.
    Other reasons I thought of is if anybody saw something being loaded into a vehicle. Otherwise, what would catch normal passersby attention (in hindsight knowing a woman is missing)? An argument out on the street? Or, lots of smoke coming from behind FB's bar indicating a very large burn (they have barrels for the purpose of keeping warm back there).
    LE also made a comment that they feel NH knows more about what happened to Kelli. To me that sounds as if they may suspect someone else besides NH as well.

    Also, iirc, the last activity on Kelli's FB was a friend request from somebody from the bar. I'm not clear about the details - received, accepted or not - but still could be an attempt to cover/show everything seemed normal. Oh and don't forget about Kelli's unpaid bar tab - she left without paying her bill. Not normal imo.

    How do we know that Kelli's texts weren't sent from the bar? She may have been trying to get out of the bar/not NH's car. Something may have happened to Kelli before she ever even left the bar.
     
  6. Woe.be.gone

    Woe.be.gone Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,015
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Also who's to say a fight didn't ensue between Kelli and a woman? Afterall, Kelli was in foreign territory surrounded by more men than women. What if another woman didn't appreciate Kelli's presence?

    Back in the day, I had a biker chic type pin me up against a wall just for walking into a place (her territory) because her "old man" looked my way. The male I was with appeased the situation and I was set free with only a warning. My goodness - that was a different type of greeting from what I was used too! Needless to say, I never went back there again. Although she should have kicked his arse, not mine - lol! When one wanders into foreign territory, trouble is a possibility. It's hard to believe :blushing: when everyone doesn't like you. Looking back, some of my early experiences help me from being/thinking too pollyannaish which is closer to my real nature.

    My guess is that Kelli believed too much in the good side of individuals. Her own strengths and abilities may have been overrated in her own mind. Her viewpoint may have caused her to throw caution to the wind versus being more leary of the new people she met.
     
  7. Woe.be.gone

    Woe.be.gone Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,015
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Here you are Kelli on page seven. Your case is always on my mind. Time to bump you up.
    Regarding another case, a discussion about a car being sold or changed came up. That's a factor that came up in your case too.
    Kelli, just want you to know I'm paying attention. Please, if you can, show yourself. :please: Woe.
     
  8. Bravo

    Bravo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    20,056
    Likes Received:
    60,772
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well said. I come here often with a heavy heart. Hoping and praying Kelli is found:please:
     
  9. troykan

    troykan Member

    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    6

    The fact that NH would engage in this type of horrific crime at sixteen upon a five year old child is enough to bring questions upon what he is capable of as a violent sex offender provided the right set of circumstances accordingly.

    Bundy hunted women but this fact never stopped him from grabbing a 12 year old child to satisfy his sick fantasies, your logic is limited in scope concerning a predators inclination and capability given the right circumstances.

    Why would Bundy go after a child, if he only wanted to cozy up to women? It was children that should have been safe around him according to the same logic you have employed? I think not!

    There are complexities to killers and offenders that are simply not easy to unravel, what we do know is they have a god complex and love to control and inflict injury upon the innocent whatever form this my take.

    How and when this is expressed may vary based on individual, urge and opportunity.

    Some predators graduate to more difficult tasks from attacking children to adults.

    Based on the evidence of what we actually do have concerning NH, he is even sicker for having attacked a child, does not get much worse, unless he turns into a Bundy figure.

    Further, we have a violent sex offender with and last seen by the victim the night she disappeared.

    We do not know what actually happened but if we are being consistent and looking at the circumstantial evidence (there is no other that we know of) then NH would be the guy I would focus on accordingly.

    Sadly, if that is all they have, we may never know what happened to Kelli that night.
     
  10. Woe.be.gone

    Woe.be.gone Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,015
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The idea that NH picked Kelli as his victim doesn't fit what her family said about her. They said she's not the vulnerable type, regardless of her size, so she doesn't fit with NH's other crime imo.

    Anyway, no abduction/crimes seem logical anyway. Does it ever make sense that a man kills his wife of over twenty years, or the mother of his children, or someone he's been married to for ninety days? Why does logic have to be involved when contemplating who a murderer may be?

    Bundy knew women who he didn't kill too. One of them was a coworker who never suspected he was capable of the horrendous acts it turns out he committed. Wouldn't logic dictate that he should have killed her too? Apparently, that's all he ever thought about.

    I can't understand how NH got away without leaving evidence. He was very stupid the first time on many levels.

    My suspicions linger regarding more than one possible perp.

    Besides, recently I've been thinking that there are perps out there who are purposely acting illogically by the way they leave the crime scene by complicating it to suggest a certain logical explanation (McStay family for instance).

    p.s. Did you get the memo? It said you're not supposed to insult another poster. Hey, I have feelings too!
     
  11. OldSteve

    OldSteve Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    111
    Trophy Points:
    63
    snipped:
    I wondered if Kelli after out drinking had become very venerable as a result and was something NH couldn't resist when driving her home...
    There's also the "distancing" I see in other cases, taking place here as well - that's where a doer leaves the victim off someplace other than the victim's final destination such the victim still has to get there by some other means (even if just walking) - so making it difficult to pinpoint exactly where the scene of the crime really is.

    Having said this, I still have my doubts about how/why this apparent crime took place.
     
  12. reedus23

    reedus23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,556
    Likes Received:
    261
    Trophy Points:
    83
    First, maybe it was edited out, but I didn't see anything attacking another poster. I only saw a theory/opinion being advanced.

    Second, while I don't think NH is book smart, these types of offenders are smart in their own ways IMO. I also don't doubt that they learn or refine their sick acts. Problem solving isn't the right term, but they seem to be able to see things in a way that helps them avoid detection.

    As for Kelli's family's description, IMO that all changed the second she got into that car with NH. As soon as she did, she was vulnerable. If she was intoxicated in any way, her vulnerability dramatically increased. I have little to no doubt NH was fully capable to physically overpower and overwhelm Kelli.

    While I certainly don't rule out other possibilities, the bottom line is NH is a sick and dangerous predator and this sick and dangerous predator was the last person known to be with Kelli that evening. Until someone comes up with some evidence to suggest a different person was involved, I simply can't get past NH as the most likely person responsible. All in my own opinion.
     
  13. Woe.be.gone

    Woe.be.gone Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,015
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Are you thinking he drove her elsewhere, got her out of the vehicle somehow and may have hurt and left her there? She left her unpaid tab.
    That raises concern that she may have been impaired when she left (or possibly carried?) the bar.
    But, our verified insider says no drunkenness involved so what makes the most sense (to me) didn't happen. I can't understand why she didn't pay for her drinks on her way out. She didn't know the bar/people that well (like a guy at his neighborhood bar possibly would). Don't know because we always pay as we go or use credit. Why build up a tab when you have the money available to pay? The unpaid tab never made sense to me.

    LE made a statement that they think NH knows more than what he's telling. They said that. Yet they had him incarcerated on other charges and never found any concrete evidence to charge him with Kelli's disappearance. We can bet they looked hard too, agreed? Also, LE wanted to know if people who randomly drove by at pretty specific time, noticed anything unusual that wasn't necessarily unusual. The time they asked about was earlier than the time we were led to believe was when Kelli reportedly left the bar. The not unusual observation could include noticing a big fire burning outside or something being loaded into a vehicle, a fight along the street or somebody being helped into a car?
    Our insider claims that Kelli didn't display any signs of drunkenness though. If that's the case, she'd be capable of putting up a fight imo.
    The unusual but not could also be someone lingering nearby or continually passing by. It wouldn't necessarily have to do with FB peeps.
    Yet, if LE believes NH knows more about what happened, it sounds as if whatever involves FB.

    I don't like that the spouse had changes to his vehicles going on during the exact timeframe Kelli went missing. Did LE ask to see the old one, the new one, all he had available to him ones? We're not privy to that info.

    Then there's a third person we know nothing about.

    It's difficult to accept that LE can't figure this case out. Kelli's body has to be somewhere and there's hundreds of miles of land between NC and FL.
    Or, just in NC alone.
    LE checked NH's vehicle out, along with the FB van, apparently, no evidence showed up. So, where did NH put/leave her? How?
     
  14. Woe.be.gone

    Woe.be.gone Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,015
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    NH is the easiest answer.
    We know the truth hasn't been told surrounding other individuals. I can't get past THAT. All in my opinion as well.
     
  15. masootz

    masootz New Member

    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    0
    nh IS the easiest answer at first glance. he's a sex offender who was the last person seen with the victim. i don't know if it's valuable to make assumptions about her vulnerability because we don't know enough about what happened - anyone would be "vulnerable" if they got into a car with someone who pulled a gun. we don't know what happened in the car, so kb's military training could have been of no use to her at all.

    the flip side is that nh has been vetted by le for over a year now and they have nothing on him related to her disappearance. by all accounts the guy doesn't sound like a criminal mastermind so we're left to believe he's the luckiest sob on the planet to make her disappear without a trace and to leave no evidence, make no mistakes, etc. sure that's possible, it just seems less and less likely as time passes.

    i still come back to the fact that he didn't know how much time he would have until someone noticed her missing so if he was involved he would have rushed to hide evidence. the fact that nothing has been found in over a year doesn't speak to someone who was in a rush, it speaks to someone who had a plan. i just have a hard time believing the guy who lived in a tent behind a bar could have the capacity to GET AWAY with a crime like this.

    just my 2 cents.
     
  16. Eileen730

    Eileen730 Former Member

    Messages:
    20,232
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I do t believe N H had anything to do with it but I do think it's someone she knows very well and is close to her. Jmo
     
  17. Eileen730

    Eileen730 Former Member

    Messages:
    20,232
    Likes Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I do believe they will find out who did this but it will take years
     
  18. troykan

    troykan Member

    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Just to be clear, I never insulted anyone, simply responded to the logic of the replied argument by reduction, nothing more.

    Kelli was a small 105 pound women, regardless of her demeanor, someone like NH, who was perhaps exploiting the utility of friendship through basic civility, could have easily attacked her, especially considering the alcohol consumption and circumstances.

    Further, sometimes there are no set types, simply urges and opportunities with killers, they covet what they see and what stimulates their desire at the moment.

    As with Bundy and with respect to many killers, he kept relationships of civility with women that he did not kill, these women were off limits by necessity to avoid getting caught and spoiling his front of being normal.

    Clearly, Bundy hunted women but was not opposed to killing a child if urge and opportunity met, hence the complexity of the killing choices of a killer.

    Just because Bundy was dominated by his internal disposition does not mean he could not engage in civility and relationships of utility that would seem normal to others, that was his only concrete point of connection with the real world.

    He obviously had times of suppression of his urges but eventually his desires grew out of control and he was caught.

    I really do not know what happened that night but given the only facts that we do know, that Kelli was with a violent sex offender and last seen by him, it must give us pause to alternate theories that are literally baseless speculation and total conjecture.

    It is logically possible that NH had nothing to do with her disappearance but it is not probable given what information we do have concerning the history of NH and the circumstances of the night.

    They have some circumstantial evidence on NH but perhaps NH has refined his methods, we can not assume he would always act as a reckless 16 year old offender.

    Further, we are finding a lot of missing women who simply vanish, no evidence left behind, simply gone.

    In most of these cases, foul play is suspected but LE has little to go on because these predators are evolving their methods.

    LE apparently thinks NH has information as to what happened to Kelli and have provided no indication any other suspects are in play on any level.

    Therefore, to take the other approach, where is the evidence, even circumstantial, that Kelli was abducted by another person or persons?

    We just have to pray someone comes forth with any information that helps to break this case wide open, for Kelli and her family.
     
  19. reedus23

    reedus23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,556
    Likes Received:
    261
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Him and the husband have all been vetted for over a year now and LE still feels NH is they guy that holds all the answers. That should tell us all something. The husband's whereabouts would be way to easy to verify especially given the extreme distances that would have been involved. As for his smarts, no, he doesn't sound like a sophisticated criminal when he talks but I also believe that guys like him are much better at one thing that the average person and that's self preservation. I'm sure he lived and learned from his first mistakes and learned who knows what in prison. Bottom line is it doesn't take someone being a criminal mastermind IMO to get away with something like this. Just someone who has adapted as circumstances dictate.
     
  20. reedus23

    reedus23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,556
    Likes Received:
    261
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Well said troykan. I wouldn't be surprised if there was no pre-planning at all. I wouldn't be surprised if it was completely a crime of opportunity taken by someone who had impulses and urges that, at that very moment, could not be controlled. Like you said, it is all simply speculation and sure, the are other possibilities but based on the little we do know there aren't other probabilities.
     

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice