GUILTY NC - Spc. Megan Touma, 23, pregnant, murdered, Fayetteville, 13 June 2008

gardenmom

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This thread has been curiously slow. I keep coming here expecting to see updates and there are none. I wonder why?
 

mysteriew

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Maybe there was water in the bathtub which speedup decomposition.

Even with extensive decomp they can see knife wounds, gun shot wounds and broken bones. Sometimes they can still see injection marks if the decomp is not too bad. Bruises also can often be seen in early decomp, sometimes they even show up better.

I have seen autopsies called inconclusive when the person was thought to be asphixiated, but the hyoid bone wasn't broken. If there was quite a bit of decomp, then they can't always see the petechiae. Sometimes autopsies are called inconclusive when poisons are involved, because there are no wounds and they have to wait for the tests to come back.

Also have seen autopsies called inconclusive when there were two or more lethal wounds that were inflicted one right after the other. In other words, either wound could have done it, but they don't know which one actually killed. But they don't usually tell the media it is inconclusive as they were still dead from stab wounds, gunshots, etc. However, they do seem to be protecting a lot of the info on this case (they usually do when one of the services is involved) so they could be using this as a means of hiding the info from the media.
 

mysteriew

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This thread has been curiously slow. I keep coming here expecting to see updates and there are none. I wonder why?

LOL, haven't you ever noticed that if the FBI or one of the services are involved, info is slow or not given out?
 

gardenmom

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LOL, haven't you ever noticed that if the FBI or one of the services are involved, info is slow or not given out?

Good point. I also agree with your theory of a poison may have been used. What if they put her in the tub with her wrists slit to make it look like suicide? Probably not though, since the killer left a calling card.:confused:
 

Zanko

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Can anyone with a medical background tell me if Exsanguination would increase/decrease the rate of decomposition? I was trying to think of manners of death that might affect determining time of death. Outside of heat and humidity?
 

KR2tonenow

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Pending autopsy results from the Army, I do believe they may be able to nail down the killer. Did the POI have an alibi, those last few days when Touma was found in the motel?

Why didn't anyone question, the "Do not disturb sign"? Unless, maid service was given a healthy tip not to mention anything?

I believe poison is a possiblity here for COD.
 

Atomic

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I think there hasnt been much talk about the baby cause her family, etc hasnt come forward to give it a name and a gender. Laci's and Maria's babies had identities immediately.

I didn't notice the date on the letter until it was mentioned above...wow. Even the first sentence gives the date she was found, what would be the point of purposely dating it the 17th?
 

becklynn

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Can anyone with a medical background tell me if Exsanguination would increase/decrease the rate of decomposition? I was trying to think of manners of death that might affect determining time of death. Outside of heat and humidity?

I can only think of the way meat smells when it goes bad. The blood from her body would have to have congealed in the tub some even if the drain were open. I guess if the air conditioner were on it may have helped mask the smell some.
I remember reading a book that said cutting a body will release gases and fluid to excelerate decomposition. So I am thinking it would have smelled worse than a body that had to leak blood and fluids thru the body openings. Motel rooms are made to help prevent sound from disturbing others. Perhaps it would mask smell too. My son worked as a security guard at hotels and they found a couple of suicides days after the people died. When the do not disturb sign is up and the room is paid for no one goes in.
 

DEPUTYDAWG

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I can't believe that this story has just fallen out of the news, but I guess there isn't much to report now that they're waiting for the military autopsy.

RIP Megan and baby.
 

Zanko

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I was thinking about the reason for the perp to put her in the bathtub. I go immediately to thinking about cleaning off any trace evidence or D.N.A. What other reasons might he (??) have put her in there? Any ideas?
 

mysteriew

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I was thinking about the reason for the perp to put her in the bathtub. I go immediately to thinking about cleaning off any trace evidence or D.N.A. What other reasons might he (??) have put her in there? Any ideas?

Good point about the bathtub being used to clean off trace evidence. Let's take it one step further..... what if after death the body was put in the tub, the tub was filled and the body weighted down? That would delay the odor of decomp escaping some. It might also cause problems with establishing the time of death.
 

Truly

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Perhaps you've selected the wrong adjective. Just because citizens choose to serve in the military does not make them subservient. Surely, you don't think you are better than people who chose careers in law enforcement, military or as elected officials, do you?
Perhaps I did select the wrong adjective. I think subordinate was the word I was searching for. Thanks for the correction. And, no, of course I don't mean that any one person is better than another. I mean that all military personnel are always subordinate to the decisions of Congress and the President, who are elected by 'We, the People".

One of the key justifications for the American revolution was that the British monarch 'affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.' (The quote is from The Declaration of Independence).

On this Fourth of July, here is a link to a short summary of what I was trying to say. It is enitled 'Democracy and Defense: Civilian Control of the Military in the United States', and it is an interesting look at how this principle has survived every war in the history of America.
http://usinfo.state.gov/journals/itdhr/0797/ijde/trask.htm
 

January.

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Have we heard anything else about the POI? It seems as if this story has dropped out of the media completely. They announced they were looking into a Fort Bragg soldier, and that's the last I've heard anything.
 

Truly

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I heard they are saying that the autopsy was inconclusive. What is up with that? Most of the ways of committing murder do show up in an autopsy. Her body shouldn't have been that decomposed. The only thing I can think of is something maybe learned in special forces.

Is there any way to determine if the POI is the same Edgar Patino Lopez who was assigned to the special forces school at Fort Bragg? (link: http://www.training.sfahq.com/engineering_school.htm I am also still curious why this website is .com, and not .mil, and why they disavow any connection to the U.S. Army or any agency of the U.S. government? Are they independent contractors?)

I hate to say it, but their specialty is explosives. Which might explain the 'advanced decomposition', as well as the examination of drywall and the bathtub for DNA. And no mention of her baby. Ugh. I hope there is some other explanation forthcoming.
 

crypto6

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Good point about the bathtub being used to clean off trace evidence. Let's take it one step further..... what if after death the body was put in the tub, the tub was filled and the body weighted down? That would delay the odor of decomp escaping some. It might also cause problems with establishing the time of death.

Also it's separated from the room by a door and usually has a fan, both of which would decrease the smell and delay discovery.

RE: Zanko
Blood sitting for several hours has a smell which is horrible; a couple of days would be overwhelming and lead to quicker discovery. Exsanguination doesn't change the rate of decomp.

C6
 

mysteriew

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Perhaps I did select the wrong adjective. I think subordinate was the word I was searching for. Thanks for the correction. And, no, of course I don't mean that any one person is better than another. I mean that all military personnel are always subordinate to the decisions of Congress and the President, who are elected by 'We, the People".

One of the key justifications for the American revolution was that the British monarch 'affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.' (The quote is from The Declaration of Independence).

On this Fourth of July, here is a link to a short summary of what I was trying to say. It is enitled 'Democracy and Defense: Civilian Control of the Military in the United States', and it is an interesting look at how this principle has survived every war in the history of America.
http://usinfo.state.gov/journals/itdhr/0797/ijde/trask.htm

I thought the subject was dropped so I wasn't going to say anything. To some extent I do agree with your opinions on the mil. but in some ways I don't. Military as a system is one thing. Military as soldiers and individuals is something different.

When something goes wrong, the military system does IMO have a history of coverups and/or spin. For example, look at the state of the VA hospitals- and the military system denied any problems clear up until the investigations... then they finally admitted problems.

But most military soldiers and individuals do take pride in offering respect and honor to the public.

But in this case, I don't have the feeling that there is any retalitation aspect to it. If there was any indication at all of some type of retaliation they wouldn't be so quick to hide that a civilian attacked one of their servicepersons IMO. They are acting pretty much per usual for when a serviceperson is accused of attacking someone. They want to handle it in house as much as possible and they won't talk anymore than they have to.
 

Truly

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I thought the subject was dropped so I wasn't going to say anything. To some extent I do agree with your opinions on the mil. but in some ways I don't. Military as a system is one thing. Military as soldiers and individuals is something different.

When something goes wrong, the military system does IMO have a history of coverups and/or spin. For example, look at the state of the VA hospitals- and the military system denied any problems clear up until the investigations... then they finally admitted problems.

But most military soldiers and individuals do take pride in offering respect and honor to the public.

But in this case, I don't have the feeling that there is any retalitation aspect to it. If there was any indication at all of some type of retaliation they wouldn't be so quick to hide that a civilian attacked one of their servicepersons IMO. They are acting pretty much per usual for when a serviceperson is accused of attacking someone. They want to handle it in house as much as possible and they won't talk anymore than they have to.

Originally, I was just throwing out the idea that the letter might be related to the incident at Ft. Bragg in which a police officer encountered men with machine guns, and maced and then shot at them. This engineering school still seems to hold a serious grudge against civilian Law Enforcement, since they still feature the 2002 incident prominently on the front page of their website. In my opinion, FWIW, the letter seems to be taunting the local police. I don't think there's any zodiac connection. But somebody sent out that letter.

It is a very grey area whether or not independent military subcontractors are either civilians or servicepeople. Thus far, military contractors have not been held accountable in either civilian or military courts. I think it is possible that the perp knew this fact, and may have thought he could get away with his crime. There is actually no civilian or military jurisdiction in the case of a private security contractor who commits a crime. It is an important issue which needs to be resolved, and perhaps also a reason for the delay. Even if they know who did it, if he works for a private military firm, thus far they are basically immune to prosecution. It is a real problem, as there are numerous cases of soldiers who have been killed by private contractors. Hopefully, we can sort it out.
 

becklynn

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Now I do not know if her wrist were cut to increase decompisition or to delay it. I really think her wrist were cut because her killer desired it. I think it has nothing to do with speeding up the process or delaying it but has to do with an idea her killer desired.
 

concernedperson

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Now I do not know if her wrist were cut to increase decompisition or to delay it. I really think her wrist were cut because her killer desired it. I think it has nothing to do with speeding up the process or delaying it but has to do with an idea her killer desired.

I agree with you. The killers plan was to point the murder in the direction of a serial killer vs. a known associate. In order to do this he had to have the crime look as extraordinary as possible including the zodiac type note. He may have killed her immediately and used the bathtub to inflict post mortem damage that would add to the gruesome finding and deflect attention from him. As most would not expect a loved one to damage another in such a fashion.

I imagine the delay in news is the military autopsy taking awhile. I believe they have the person responsible in their scope.
 
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