NE - Eight killed, 4 injured in Westroads Mall shooting, Omaha, 5 Dec 2007

Does anyone think that the presence of metal detectors would lead to more crime, as it silently states humans are expected to bring arms into places. The illusion it may create to some, that it is expected of them to be delinquent? I was just wondering if anyone had opinions on this..
 
Does anyone think that the presence of metal detectors would lead to more crime, as it silently states humans are expected to bring arms into places. The illusion it may create to some, that it is expected of them to be delinquent? I was just wondering if anyone had opinions on this..

Not sure I understand exactly what you're saying, but if you mean is it going to invite 'certain people' to try and circumvent or outsmart the metal detectors, then yes I think that would invite such people. But I do not think that the placement of metal detectors in itself would make the problem bigger.
 
Does anyone think that the presence of metal detectors would lead to more crime, as it silently states humans are expected to bring arms into places. The illusion it may create to some, that it is expected of them to be delinquent? I was just wondering if anyone had opinions on this..

No, exactly the opposite. At first, they refused to install metal detectors at the Alameda County Fair Grounds on that basis. Then several gangs started frequenting the fair on the 4th of July. One year a gang member openly shot somebody at the fair, that convinced the Fair Board to install metal detectors, and now you don't see the gangs openly roaming the fair in their various gang colors.
 
Not sure I understand exactly what you're saying, but if you mean is it going to invite 'certain people' to try and circumvent or outsmart the metal detectors, then yes I think that would invite such people. But I do not think that the placement of metal detectors in itself would make the problem bigger.

My family and myself worked for friends of ours who had a metal detector business. They can be set to very sensitive (false positives), to detect plastic explosives, and hand scanners are used too. I personally built about 100 hand scanners.
 
Not sure I understand exactly what you're saying, but if you mean is it going to invite 'certain people' to try and circumvent or outsmart the metal detectors, then yes I think that would invite such people. But I do not think that the placement of metal detectors in itself would make the problem bigger.

Neither do I; just like in an airport you'll be arrested if you "pull any sass". Most people going to the mall would just like to shop in peace.

There are groups of teenagers and gangs, but hopefully they'd go somewhere to do gang stuff and drugs. Most teenagers are good and would like to hang out with their friends. They need SOMEPLACE to go....
 
Ok, back to the subject:

"He was a quiet, helpful young man. He was depressed and has always been depressed. But he was NOT on medication for mental illness" DUHHHH

He loved animals. But did have criminal past (drugs, disorderly conduct). The warning signs were there.

LOst his girlfriend, lost his job.

We've been here before - they're always male, always depressed or angry; always just "lost someone" or a job.

What does it take for mentally ill people to get help? There are hundreds and thousands of these people just lurking, waiting for a "trigger" to go off - pardon the pun.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22126514/

Yup, the woman he lived with (Deborah) and showed the gun to, instead of getting him help, "didn't think it could actually fire". Too bad 8 innocent people had to lose their lives because of her ignorance!
 
Marthatex,

I don't like the metal detectors at airports either. Metal detectors don't make me feel safer and they don't give me peace of mind - they do the opposite. They engender an attitude that we live in very dangerous times. I don't think we live in very dangerous times. I think we are "safer" (whatever that means to you) today than we have ever been in the past - both individually and as a society. I admit, we still have a ways to go towards complete peace and I'm all about moving towards that goal - but it's not a goal that will happen with metal detectors, IMHO.

Now, there is an inherent danger when you live in a world with 6 billion other ego-saturated human beings. I understand that, but I am incapable of living my life in fear of that because I'm not afraid of it. Perhaps this is all a perception game. I'm 41-years-old and every year I live here, I see growth and progress (smaller in some areas and larger in others) towards more peace and unity between humans.

I understand that not everyone has this view of humanity and the world and that's fine. But if this country turns into a country where metal detectors are standard in our schools, churches, malls and other places of congress, my family and I will move somewhere else where that is not the case. Personally, I cannot live happily without a large amount of safety and freedom. Metal detectors wreak of fear and captivity.

In other words, if my society is so dangerous that it needs metal detectors (and obviously, I don't feel like the US is this dangerous), I need to leave the society instead of living under that type of oppression.

JMHO.

Do you not fly, then? I assume you must be a Libertarian; and you don't want anyone to infringe on your "freedoms and rights".

Do you let your children run all over and walk anywhere they are and not know if they're OK? If you do, you must live in an unusual place.

What is Websleuths about? We study about all the child predators, crimes, etc. We know our country is not as safe as it could be; we'd like to become informed to make it better. I don't want to live in fear either; not a good way to live. That's why we should tighten the loopholes that are easy to fix.

Of course we're not like Iraq or Afghanistan; it's all relative. But the jihadists would like to get an opportunity to kill as many of us as possible; so I don't see how anyone could say it's safer now. To think that Homeland Security has their act together would be a delusion.

The crime rate has gone up 2 years in a row; and police are being assaulted at a rate 50% higher than last year. Gangs are growing; partly due border problems. Agencies are dropping the ball. Evidently a neighbor complained to the police but the message didn't get to the Sheriff about this boy. The Sheriff says "they didn't get it." We have more guns than any country. MSNBC says it was an AK-47, and it was an assault weapon. But someone above tried to make me think I wasn't using the correct nomenclature. That's just a way to distract folks; but luckily I know better.

Same thing with the Cho shooting - a message wasn't passed on; some tried to help him. Martin said basically "he didn't want to trouble those who took care of him anymore". He said he was WORTHLESS.

The first thing we can do is help our kids' self-esteem and get health care. BUT MORE AND MORE AREN"T DOING THAT.

People used to say seat belts were silly - a small inconvenience. Sure enough, now we know they save thousands and thousands of lives. The law makes us do it; we finally got used to it.

It must be nice to be able to move to another country; but I would rather just get ideas and work to make this one safer. From our own terrorists, and the overseas ones who threaten us. Bin Laden is just smiling. He predicted most of this would happen; he wants our culture to fail. He will strike again too; in a way we don't suspect.

The Amish shooting, the Cho shooting, the Las Vegas, this and several other mall shootings and near misses clearly show that something IS GETTING WORSE. Columbine. Just count up all the bodies; not much of this kind of thing happened in the '90s. Probably not the 80's. Don't have time to research all that though.
 
My family and myself worked for friends of ours who had a metal detector business. They can be set to very sensitive (false positives), to detect plastic explosives, and hand scanners are used too. I personally built about 100 hand scanners.

When I said that, I also meant that yes it would probably tempt them, but they'd also get caught. IMO. lol
 
Do you not fly, then? I assume you must be a Libertarian; and you don't want anyone to infringe on your "freedoms and rights".

Do you let your children run all over and walk anywhere they are and not know if they're OK? If you do, you must live in an unusual place.

What is Websleuths about? We study about all the child predators, crimes, etc. We know our country is not as safe as it could be; we'd like to become informed to make it better. I don't want to live in fear either; not a good way to live. That's why we should tighten the loopholes that are easy to fix.

Of course we're not like Iraq or Afghanistan; it's all relative. But the jihadists would like to get an opportunity to kill as many of us as possible; so I don't see how anyone could say it's safer now. To think that Homeland Security has their act together would be a delusion.

The crime rate has gone up 2 years in a row; and police are being assaulted at a rate 50% higher than last year. Gangs are growing; partly due border problems. Agencies are dropping the ball. Evidently a neighbor complained to the police but the message didn't get to the Sheriff about this boy. The Sheriff says "they didn't get it." We have more guns than any country. MSNBC says it was an AK-47, and it was an assault weapon. But someone above tried to make me think I wasn't using the correct nomenclature. That's just a way to distract folks; but luckily I know better.

Same thing with the Cho shooting - a message wasn't passed on; some tried to help him. Martin said basically "he didn't want to trouble those who took care of him anymore". He said he was WORTHLESS.

The first thing we can do is help our kids' self-esteem and get health care. BUT MORE AND MORE AREN"T DOING THAT.

People used to say seat belts were silly - a small inconvenience. Sure enough, now we know they save thousands and thousands of lives. The law makes us do it; we finally got used to it.

It must be nice to be able to move to another country; but I would rather just get ideas and work to make this one safer. From our own terrorists, and the overseas ones who threaten us. Bin Laden is just smiling. He predicted most of this would happen; he wants our culture to fail. He will strike again too; in a way we don't suspect.

The Amish shooting, the Cho shooting, the Las Vegas, this and several other mall shootings and near misses clearly show that something IS GETTING WORSE. Columbine. Just count up all the bodies; not much of this kind of thing happened in the '90s. Probably not the 80's. Don't have time to research all that though.

I fly from time to time - maybe once or twice a year - not enough to be deeply bothered by the presence of metal detectors at airports. But I go to malls, churches, etc... regularly and my children walk into a school daily. If a school was dangerous enough to need a metal detector, I sure as heck wouldn't send my child there!!

I can't really say I have any formal or informal affiliation to any of the US political parties. I have voted Republican before and like some of their ideas and ideals. I have voted Democratic before and like some of their ideas and ideals. I have never voted for a Libertarian but I do like some of their ideas and ideals.

I always know where my children are and if they are okay. They are young (5 or 7) so usually we are together. If they aren't with me, they are at schools which I trust, though I accept I cannot know everything that goes on every minute they are at school or who they might meet there. But I don't mind if the older one walks up the street solo to a friend's house in our neighborhood. I do feel safe in our neighborhood, but I also know that safe neighborhoods do not exclude families from becoming crime victims.

I don't know what Websleuths is about for every member here. For many people it may be about becoming better informed and tightening loopholes that are simple to tighten. That's surely not the predominant reason I am here, but it's a worthy reason that I respect.

Homeland Security is the biggest joke in the world! The best thing I can say about them is that they provide excellent fodder for Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert to make me weep with laughter. I understand that there are people in this world who would love to kill large groups of innocent Americans and I or my loved ones could be victim to such an occurrence.

As horrible as that would be for me, I do not live in fear of it any more than I live in fear of someone I loved being mutilated or killed in a car accident (a much more likely thing to happen, by the way) - which is to say, I don't live in fear of it period. I am not scared of Osama bin laden. Terrorism does not make me terrified!

You and I could go back and forth with data and links - you could find many facts and opinions "proving" that the world is getting more dangerous and unsafe and divided and I could find facts "proving" that the world is getting less dangerous and safer and more united. But I doubt my "facts" would change your mind and I doubt yours would change mine.

I have known for some time now that life is a dangerous proposition. I read everything on Websleuths that you do, and I am not in denial about the brutal realities of life on planet Earth. I am a realist despite my rose colored glasses.

But when all is said and done, I feel safe in the United States. I feel safe in Georgia. I feel safe in Atlanta. I feel safe in my home. I feel safe in my own skin. I believe that metal detectors in schools and malls would detract from that - and would in fact send the message to others that we are in danger. That's a message I can't get behind because it's a message I don't believe.

I deeply respect that you want to work for change to make a more secure, more peaceful America too. This is my home and I love this country. But, cowardly or not, I would leave it if I felt I or my family were in constant peril here. You are right that I am lucky - my husband is Irish and has duel citizenship here - my sons have duel Irish-American citizenship as well. I could get it if I wanted it. I hope that's an "out" we never have to take and I will admit that we discussed it as an option in the months following 9-11.

I am with you 100% regarding automatic weapons though - why the hell those are still available is mind-boggling to me?
 
Why not? We don't complain about being safe on airlines do we.

Metal detectors would not be "everywhere" obviously. They would be at schools, to protect our precious children.

They would be at malls to protect the masses of people who go there.

You need bomb sniffing dogs; I'm sure we have them some places. This is a different time, and place now. Let's not kid ourselves. We can't go back to how it was in the '50s, unfortunately.

I don't mind a little inconvenience to have some peace of mind. It doesn't "take away our rights" - it GIVES us more freedom, as we should be able to live in this free country IMO.

Glad you agree on automatics - We don't need a "citizens militia" as we did in the 1700s and 1800s. We have army, National guard and police to protect us.

If we don't "change" appropriate things, then things will never change...

No change is a bad idea in a progressive, intelligent society IMO.

He was crazy, went on a rampage, and nobody could protect themselves from him. Good luck believing the army, nat. guard, and police will protect you. I lived through Katrina, I will never believe it.
 
He was crazy, went on a rampage, and nobody could protect themselves from him. Good luck believing the army, nat. guard, and police will protect you. I lived through Katrina, I will never believe it.

I was in the Whitman massacre. The police were absolute HEROES. One got in the middle of the road surrounding campus; risked his life and guided everyone out of range.

No one realized how very long his range was. He was an expert marksman.
This policeman guided many people away - saving lives. Keep in mind this was a total shock, never had happened anywhere; the police reacted very quickly.

Another policeman finally risked his life by sneaking up the tower, by a string of dead bodies. Whitman turned away, the policeman shot him dead. Whitman was getting tired and agitated, but he could have killed more.

You're right, having policeman on campus didn't protect the first one; but they surely help save alot of others.

After that, they closed the tower; no one could go up for awhile; they CHANGED PROCEDURES, probably got a guard; I think you can go up now.

The Woodlands Mall, Houston, has Mounted police in the parking lot. I just noticed a policeman on a Segway patrolling one of our malls. As cities get homeland security money, they can hire more police. Unfortunately alot of those funds didn't get to some towns or was cut.

I bet the police per capita were more in 1966 here. Populations are burgeoning; we will have more nut cases.

The presence of police or mall security can most certainly discourage at least some. If you prevent one shooting, that's good IMO. The police we had in 1966 were HEROES, and EXCELLENT. The one who killed Whitman just recently died.

I know about Katrina; and that was appalling. A huge, slow reaction and beaurocratic mess. You can hardly compare a mass shooting in a mall, to a huge hurricane that wreaks distruction everywhere LOL. Hundreds of thousands. Apples to oranges.
 
I fly from time to time - maybe once or twice a year - not enough to be deeply bothered by the presence of metal detectors at airports. But I go to malls, churches, etc... regularly and my children walk into a school daily. If a school was dangerous enough to need a metal detector, I sure as heck wouldn't send my child there!!

I can't really say I have any formal or informal affiliation to any of the US political parties. I have voted Republican before and like some of their ideas and ideals. I have voted Democratic before and like some of their ideas and ideals. I have never voted for a Libertarian but I do like some of their ideas and ideals.

I always know where my children are and if they are okay. They are young (5 or 7) so usually we are together. If they aren't with me, they are at schools which I trust, though I accept I cannot know everything that goes on every minute they are at school or who they might meet there. But I don't mind if the older one walks up the street solo to a friend's house in our neighborhood. I do feel safe in our neighborhood, but I also know that safe neighborhoods do not exclude families from becoming crime victims.

I don't know what Websleuths is about for every member here. For many people it may be about becoming better informed and tightening loopholes that are simple to tighten. That's surely not the predominant reason I am here, but it's a worthy reason that I respect.

Homeland Security is the biggest joke in the world! The best thing I can say about them is that they provide excellent fodder for Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert to make me weep with laughter. I understand that there are people in this world who would love to kill large groups of innocent Americans and I or my loved ones could be victim to such an occurrence.

As horrible as that would be for me, I do not live in fear of it any more than I live in fear of someone I loved being mutilated or killed in a car accident (a much more likely thing to happen, by the way) - which is to say, I don't live in fear of it period. I am not scared of Osama bin laden. Terrorism does not make me terrified!

You and I could go back and forth with data and links - you could find many facts and opinions "proving" that the world is getting more dangerous and unsafe and divided and I could find facts "proving" that the world is getting less dangerous and safer and more united. But I doubt my "facts" would change your mind and I doubt yours would change mine.

I have known for some time now that life is a dangerous proposition. I read everything on Websleuths that you do, and I am not in denial about the brutal realities of life on planet Earth. I am a realist despite my rose colored glasses.

But when all is said and done, I feel safe in the United States. I feel safe in Georgia. I feel safe in Atlanta. I feel safe in my home. I feel safe in my own skin. I believe that metal detectors in schools and malls would detract from that - and would in fact send the message to others that we are in danger. That's a message I can't get behind because it's a message I don't believe.

I deeply respect that you want to work for change to make a more secure, more peaceful America too. This is my home and I love this country. But, cowardly or not, I would leave it if I felt I or my family were in constant peril here. You are right that I am lucky - my husband is Irish and has duel citizenship here - my sons have duel Irish-American citizenship as well. I could get it if I wanted it. I hope that's an "out" we never have to take and I will admit that we discussed it as an option in the months following 9-11.

I am with you 100% regarding automatic weapons though - why the hell those are still available is mind-boggling to me?

Well some people have schools that are borderline "shady" at best; and even here they have police guarding and walking around, especially in jr. high or high school. Some schools have banned backpacks; that's one solution.

Kids can readily understand that since "a few choose to disobey"; we must check things to make sure everyone is safe. I'm sure they would rather do that than be in the middle of a horrifying shooting.

You say "homeland security is a joke", but then you say you feel safe. Then why did we form homeland security and billions of YOUR tax dollars go to them? It was because we were attacked in a way never expected, and thousands were killed.

I feel fairly safe in my town, but never go out at night, never walk alone, lock my car, I keep my eyes and ears open; but it is notorious that people will be under a car and grab you in a parking lot; steal Xmas packages. Women have been raped in the parking lot. Every night the evening news is full of crime; I don't even watch it.

If we're so safe; why do so many houses have security systems?

I AGREE that we're more likely to die in a car accident; I'm very careful every day.

Your children will get older and want to go to peoples houses; as teenagers they'll want to go to the mall and walk around. I see mounted police and police on sedgways; but they surely can't be everywhere at once.

Mental health is a huge issue, but most know that the availability of that for folks has declined. 40 million families without insurance.

In Europe I'll bet they're very careful who gets on trains, etc., because of terrorism. London has cameras and I know they have a very fast-response system. If people know this, they are less likely to do terrorist acts or crimes.

When we've had 4 huge mass shootings in a years; it's something to be alarmed about. We can't just forget and walk on....

You say you could always produce something countering my statistics; but the fact is you don't and cant. I'm quoting recent assessments that have been widely on various news channels, valid reports; that the crime rate has risen two years in a row, and that police are being gunned down by assault weapons, at a rate 50% higher than last year. They are already training and upping their weapons. They showed films of it on the ABC news.

The answer to why? The Republican Congress let the assault weapon BAN EXPIRE last year. What they were thinking, I don't know. They were listening to NRA statistics and reasoning, which are "cooked".

I do think small towns are safer - maybe you live in a small, nice place but most people these days have to deal with dangers; our country is a fairly unsafe place considering our affluence and education level.
 
Well some people have schools that are borderline "shady" at best; and even here they have police guarding and walking around, especially in jr. high or high school. Some schools have banned backpacks; that's one solution.

Kids can readily understand that since "a few choose to disobey"; we must check things to make sure everyone is safe. I'm sure they would rather do that than be in the middle of a horrifying shooting.

You say "homeland security is a joke", but then you say you feel safe. Then why did we form homeland security and billions of YOUR tax dollars go to them? It was because we were attacked in a way never expected, and thousands were killed.

I feel fairly safe in my town, but never go out at night, never walk alone, lock my car, I keep my eyes and ears open; but it is notorious that people will be under a car and grab you in a parking lot; steal Xmas packages. Women have been raped in the parking lot. Every night the evening news is full of crime; I don't even watch it.

If we're so safe; why do so many houses have security systems?

I AGREE that we're more likely to die in a car accident; I'm very careful every day.

Your children will get older and want to go to peoples houses; as teenagers they'll want to go to the mall and walk around. I see mounted police and police on sedgways; but they surely can't be everywhere at once.

Mental health is a huge issue, but most know that the availability of that for folks has declined. 40 million families without insurance.

In Europe I'll bet they're very careful who gets on trains, etc., because of terrorism. London has cameras and I know they have a very fast-response system. If people know this, they are less likely to do terrorist acts or crimes.

When we've had 4 huge mass shootings in a years; it's something to be alarmed about. We can't just forget and walk on....

You say you could always produce something countering my statistics; but the fact is you don't and cant. I'm quoting recent assessments that have been widely on various news channels, valid reports; that the crime rate has risen two years in a row, and that police are being gunned down by assault weapons, at a rate 50% higher than last year. They are already training and upping their weapons. They showed films of it on the ABC news.

The answer to why? The Republican Congress let the assault weapon BAN EXPIRE last year. What they were thinking, I don't know. They were listening to NRA statistics and reasoning, which are "cooked".

I do think small towns are safer - maybe you live in a small, nice place but most people these days have to deal with dangers; our country is a fairly unsafe place considering our affluence and education level.

I think perhaps that you and I have different approaches in our beliefs about how and why people feel safe. IMHO, people do or don't feel safe based on their own cumulative personal experiences with the world. If, time and again, the world has been harmful to them, they come to view it as unsafe. If, time and again, the world has not been harmful to them, they come to view it as safe.

How safe we feel is not based on the "statistics" we read - which, as you and I both know, can be (and often are!) made to show that any hypothesis under the sun, no matter how ludicrous and erroneous, is absolutely true. How safe we feel is not based on what we are shown on the news or read in papers and magazines - because, and again you and I both know this - these sources are so slanted towards the negative that goes on in our world that they are biased to the point of silliness.

When "news" sources give at least equal time to the good that people do every single minute of every single day, then and only then can we possibly consider the bad or dangerous in any sort of genuine perspective. (And by the way - this equal time of the tremendous amount of good news going on would have to be broadcast for years and years and years to come close to catching up with the negative in our societal consciousness!)

The government spent billions on homeland security because they felt like they had to show they were doing something - no matter how ineffectual that something actually is - to apear powerful and in control to the country and the world! That's a very masculine, human response to being attacked. But it's nothing but BS macho posturing - which is of course one of the reasons we started the war in Iraq. But BS macho posturing is not real - it is sound and fury signifying nothing.

It's to the government's advantage to keep people fearful. Fearful people are very easy to control!!

Atlanta, Georgia's not a huge place, but it's not a small place. (I was at Centennial Park when it was bombed and worked tirelessly for the people killed and wounded in that incident when I was involved in their lawsuit). We're not huge, but like any other place I suspect we have enough crime here to be getting on with.

You say I can't and won't produce "facts" that support my contention that the world is safer and more unified today than it ever has been, but I can and will, if you like. I don't know that this is the thread for it. Perhaps we could open a new one. I suspect we would spend page after page debating each other's stories and sources - which I, who like to debate, would be happy to do.

But I believe in the end, neither or us would sway much from our feelings about safety. As I said earlier, I believe how safe you or I or anyone else feels is based primarily on our individual life experiences. All the current news and statistics do is serve to whip people into a frenzy of fear. But I can't possibly take thiese things too seriously until there is a fair counter balance.

Yes, the bad stuff exists and we should address it. But no, I don't feel like things are so bad that we need metal detectors and armed guards and all that jazz. Again - just my opinion based on my experiences and observations.

Every single day for years and years and years I have seen and experienced (on a personal, community and international level) more people behaving kindly and nobly and lovingly than the opposite. But you won't hear about that on the evening news and few people will care to do a study "proving" it.
 
Well, I'm kind of of the train of thought that there are really, good noble people, and those are the kind I try to hang around - but there's a whole underbelly of criminals and also just plain disturbed people out there we're just not aware of.

Of course if you came from Ireland you must be familiar with the war-like dangers and of course that was a terrible period and kind of violence. Compared with that, our violence is different.

I felt relatively safe in our neighborhood and daily lives, and I also raised my children to be secure. But we told them to "watch out when you cross the street" - there are crazy people; and we had 3 tragedies in the neighborhood with guns (in an upper middle class neighborhood). My kids walked to school.

Something COULD have happened but things seemed relatively safe in the '80s and '90s. They DID Have multiple bomb threats at the high school, and one fake pipe bomb under the stairs. They fire trucks were there alot; evacations alot. Usually pranksters.

The govt. is in the business to scare us - but about terrorists overseas; islamic terrorists - NOT about our own safety. That was played out in Katrina; little do we know that money is being CUT for local police; different states receive illogical amounts of money, airports are having MORE NEAR MISSES THAN EVER. It's in the news. the past 8 years the trend is to cut domestic spending, ie our safety and protection That's what needs to change IMO.

You can look on ABC news site to see how police are "uptraining" with more advanced guns so they can catch up with all the assault-weapon attacks they have had. The statistics are on mainstream new; I'm not quoting from some weird website.

We had at least 2 shootings today; one looks like a hate crime, someone they knew. That's different from a random mass shooting, but may have been spurred by the happening of the others.

I'm not the only one recognizing this question will be before us:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22152335/ The article is "America's Choice - airport type security, or knowing these killings will happen".

I'm quite sure this will be discussed in our "do nothing Congress"; as now we've had 4 or 5, or I don't know how many mass killings in a year.

The point is not how many good and noble people there are; its' why do their lives needlessly be snuffed out by a disturbed individual. Do we need better mental health care for all, do we need more protection, do we need more family "rescue" agencies so these kids aren't ruined with out their fathers?

Probably all of those things IMO
 
I don't doubt your statistics are from reputable sources, Martha, and I really do hear you and the points you have made.

These types of issues will always be an issue in a free society - what freedoms do we give up for the better protection of us all. There are no simple answers.

While I would dislike living in a society littered with metal detectors, I know others might feel safer if that were the case. It's a truly individual thing, but as a community we have to come to what works best for most of us.

As much as I think the world is safer today than it ever has been, I am not a proponent of burying our heads in the sand when there are plenty of areas ripe for improvement. Still we must continue to acknowledge that most people are good and noble and wish us no harm, or else we can start to resemble Chicken Little!
 
I didn't realize this until today when I got an email from one of the girls I went to high school with, but one of the victims of the shootings was in my high school graduation class.
 
I'm sorry to hear that, Maral. That must be quite shocking. Were you close to her? ((Maral))
 

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