Netflix - Elisa Lam

Discussion in 'Elisa Lam' started by leaves, Feb 11, 2021.

  1. MOMisery1853

    MOMisery1853 New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hoping someone can provide some clarification for me on this, just because my knowledge on it is nil:

    Do elevator system have a system log / history that is stored when interaction with the system happens? Is it possible, or worth trying, to pull logs off of the elevator system to shed light on which floor an elevator is called to, what buttons are pressed, whether to door closes and the car moves and goes to which floor? Just thinking out loud but this could have helped with the determination of whether or not someone was holding the elevator at the floor by pushing the call button, thus not allowing it to travel. Based on the information presented it was stated that she probably pushed the door hold button but at least, again if possible, would have shed some light.

    Just curious.
     


  2. ryanmarieee

    ryanmarieee Active Member

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    163
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Okay now I want to look into elevators. I would imagine that due to the age and how outdated this hotel seemed to be that maybe newer elevators have this, but and older one may not have that kind of technology. If it even exists. I'm going to look into this. Maybe someone else will chime in about if this is a thing or not.
     
  3. DeLorean

    DeLorean New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Obviously, she did not die by drowning as the autopsy revealed that there was no water in her lungs. Further, a ladder was required to get up to the top of the tank to move the very heavy lid. There was no ladder present. And it would have been functionally impossible for her to have closed the lid from inside the tank. Yet, we're told the lid was closed. Clearly, her body was put into the tank after her death.

    The adulterated time code on the tape is enormously suspicious. We have no evidence whatsoever of when that tape was made and, frankly, the quality is so poor there is no way to positively ID Lam as the woman who appears in it. Why was the video edited? What was cut out? Why did the cops leave over a minute of footage of the empty closed elevator? Was some of the footage reversed?

    Her blog continued to be updated for months after her death. The explanation for this that we've given is that she might have used tumblr's scheduled posting feature. Ok. Then, what's the proof that any of the posts on her blog were not similarly automated or that any of them were even written by her? Where are the interviews with her friends and classmates in Vancouver who can corroborate details of things she posted about? Has her identity and those of the people presented as her family members been verified? For that matter, what if any details of this case have been factually verified and what information is being taken on good faith?

    The Last Bookstore is an incredibly busy shop and it is huge. The place is packed from opening til closing. It is extremely unlikely that Lam would have engaged with the manager, at all, while looking for book or record recommendations. The place has dozens of clerks on staff. If beggars belief that this manager was not only doing her subordinates' work for them, on top of her own job, but that she would have any recollection of one of the thousands of people who had come through those doors over the previous month, much less one she describes as pleasant and non-problematic.

    The LAM-ELISA TB test, Lam's school being the site of preeminent TB research, and the outbreak of TB in the neighborhood immediately following her death and her rotting corpse contaminating all the drinking water in the building is as suspect as everything else about this case. Skid Row is like two blocks from this place, it's basically a tent city of junkies/hookers, the majority of whom would no doubt have partied in the hotel and done business there.

    The domain registrar for the book store and the zip code for the cemetery at which she was buried is certainly another weird coincidence, but I don't know what to make of it. Has anyone explored what else that series of letters and numbers might refer to? Similarly, the echoes between what we've been told about her case and Dark Water are weird, but feel like another red herring.

    Whomever it is in the elevator footage, looks to me like she's hallucinating on drugs. It would be impossible for her to have stayed at that hotel for any period of time and not been offered drugs. Even in nice parts of LA, you get offered coke at the post office. I find the mental illness narrative very convenient and lacking in any substantive evidence. But it sure is a great way to shut down anyone asking questions about what happened to her.
     
    x_files likes this.
  4. squareandrabbet

    squareandrabbet Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    17,648
    Trophy Points:
    113
    yeah, I reached the end and got the same impression I got from the last written precis I saw of the events (I want to say Vanity Fair, maybe?); that of Dr. Ho. Nothing seems mysterious when she said that everything we see Elisa do in the video is completely compos mentis with someone with bipolar I who went off her meds; and I also assume it’s easy to check the contention of the person who said when the ‘elevator open’ button is pressed, as Elisa is seen doing. it does stay open for 2 minutes. Also, what would be the impetus for Dr. Ho to lie about these events, or the roommates, or the security staff at the TV network where Elisa attended the taping?
     
    SkyBoomer, jash, MsBetsy and 2 others like this.
  5. ryanmarieee

    ryanmarieee Active Member

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    163
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I do think that there is a lot of suspicious stuff that went on and definitely can be a combination of many things. The mental illness piece may not only be a contributing factor, but one that made her an easier target for any other foul play that might have occurred.

    I don't really know what the TB test and bookstore information concludes for me at this point. Could it be that the book store is playing on this media attention to draw attention to its store? is there a way to know when the zip code was added on the site?

    The TB test has a logical explaination behind why it is called LAM-ELISA. I feel like for this to be more than a coincidence she would have had to have contaminated the water with TB and not just be a name. Otherwise the whole contaminating the water supply doesn't line up with a motive behind the government or anything like that. Unless perhaps a bigger plan was foiled. ELISA is an acronym that has been used for much longer than the Elisa Lam case in science, at least the 70s.

    I just don't know if this one will ever be concluded due to the inconsistencies in the investigation.
     
    x_files and SkyBoomer like this.
  6. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    16,584
    Likes Received:
    142,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Many of the details in your post are not accurate. About 10-20 % of autopsies show no water in the lungs in drowning victims. The absence of water doesn't necessarily mean she did not drown.

    Also, there was a 10 foot ladder attached to the main tank. The hotel employee described how he climbed the platform, then the ladder to get to the top of the main tank. He found the lid open. The lid weighed about twenty pounds so it would have been easy to open but she would not have been able to close it once inside the tank.

    As far as her body being placed in the tank, the lawyer for the hotel attempted to reenact such a scenario. They found it impossible that a person could have carried a body up the ladder and leave no prints or DNA behind. Just carrying a body up the ladder would have been a struggle.

    As far as the video is concerned, LE said they slowed it down hoping that someone might recognize Elisa. There was never any question that it was not her. Facial recognition technology would have positively identified her. They covered the time stamp because they did not want to reveal the time. That would be something only a suspect would know and at that time they were considering all possibilities.

    As far as the Lam-Elisa TB test, I don't see a connection there. The test was named in the early seventies, long before she was born. She did not have TB when she died or have anything to do with the research, as far as I know. Lots of colleges conduct medical research.

    They never said the water was contaminated, it just had a strange taste. People had been drinking it all week and I don't recall anybody getting sick. Test results showed no harmful bacteria in the pipes or tanks.

    And yes, her family was identified from the beginning. Her parents and sister attended the first Press Conference. Her sister provided investigators with many details about the mental disorder Elisa suffered from. Her actions in the elevator and her "strange" behavior was consistent with past behavior, especially when she didn't take her meds as prescribed. She suffered from delusions and hallucinations and her sister described her as being terrified when this happened. She would think people were after her, which would explain the notes saying "go home" and "go away," left all around the hotel room. It also explains her behavior by the elevator and her seeking a place to hide where nobody would find her.

    Imo
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
  7. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,639
    Likes Received:
    11,977
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I was somewhat on the fence about what happened to Elisa until this documentary. I’m glad they made it.

    First of all I want to clear up something. This was really my main question going into this. Was the tank lid closed or open when she was discovered? It was open! When the LE officer is seen giving a statement to reporters, he says the lid was closed when his officers arrived on the scene. That is factual. When the hotel worker first found her though, it was open. He then closed it before going to call the police. This can all be confirmed towards the end of the documentary when the civil case testimony is being discussed. It was open when Elisa was initially discovered. That’s important.

    The other question I had in the back of my mind was what medication she had been on. As soon as I saw it was Venlafaxine (Effexor) I knew immediately. That explains so much. I’ve been on and come off of this same medication. ALL the side effects they describe and we see in Elisa’s actions are very real! It’s hard for anyone who hasn’t experienced this to understand. It’s quite literally unbelievable. But trust me, it’s real. I have no doubt that this contributed to her bizarre behavior and ultimate death.

    I wondered, after seeing her family in the beginning of this, why they hadn’t made additional statements. I now believe it’s because they know this was a tragic accident. I think they were aware of Elisa’s history with bipolar disorder and had seen similar behavior from her in the past. Combining all the facts as we know them, her history, and the evidence, it’s the only thing that makes sense in my opinion. I believe they were “satisfied” with the investigation and outcome as far as how Elisa came to be in that water tank. Of course that’s not an outcome any family hopes for, but I think they realized it was very likely that nothing nefarious happened here.

    Could the Cecil have done more? Maybe. Thus the civil case against them. Hindsight is 20/20 though. She had no business being in another country alone, much less in one of that country’s shadiest neighborhoods and coming off of those medications. It was the perfect storm.

    ETA: Ah, yes. I forgot. The previous poster explained the drowning. She drowned. The TB test and zip code are merely strange coincidences. Which I rarely believe in.

    I really hope Elisa is resting peacefully now.
     
  8. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,639
    Likes Received:
    11,977
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thank you for posting! I can tell you watched and paid attention to the entire documentary. Much appreciated.
     
    Inverloch, SkyBoomer, Suglo and 2 others like this.
  9. sony12

    sony12 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    1,083
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I think we need to remember that often times the simplest explanations tend to turn out to be the correct ones.

    Sometimes people have a habit of overcomplicating things and as a result they turn it into something more closely resembling a movie or novel they read than anything true that really happened.

    She was a girl that had psychological issues and she didn't seem to be properly medicating herself and because of that it led to her death. In all honesty I think if anyone else was involved they probably would have at least some idea of it by now. The fact they have no evidence anyone else was involved all this time later is a very strong argument for the fact that no one else was involved and everything that transpired that night happened as a result of her own doing.
     
  10. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,177
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That was not the tank she was found in. She was found in the one to the right of the one you circled.
     
    MsBetsy likes this.
  11. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,177
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Except that, this doc does the exact opposite. It isn't sensationalizing the case, like so many other "docs" do. It concludes with the least sensational theory of the lot. That makes it more genuine, at least to me.
     
  12. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,177
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I liked this documentary and thought it was well-done. It was refreshing to see the filmmakers stick to the facts and not make it more sensational than it really was, particularly with regards to the conclusion. In all honesty, a lot of us who had studied this case way before this doc came out knew all of these details, including about the open hatch, the door-hold button, etc. -- so there weren't any huge revelations, yet the doc did shed light on things even longtime followers had always wondered, such as:

    Why did the roommates complain about EL; and/or, why did the hotel remove EL from the room?
    This was never known until this doc, as far as I know -- and it was because she was acting erratically, locking out the roommates on occasion, leaving strange notes like "go home," "get out," etc.

    Who were the 2 men she was seen meeting briefly with and passing her something (a box) in the lobby?
    These were 2 employees from the bookstore delivering the package of books she had purchased. It was obviously a big box because the store manager revealed how EL was nervous about transporting all of the books back on her return flight.

    Why were her clothes found at the bottom of the tank (if foul play was not involved)?
    There were many theories about this. I recall believing that her clothes were removed by the continuous rotation of the water within the tank, but the doc theorized that she removed her clothes while treading the water as she tired, in order to lessen the weight -- such a horribly tragic explanation, but logical.

    One thing the doc never really touched upon that longtime followers had debated in the past:

    The sand-like particles found in her clothes at the bottom of the tank.
    Many had theorized this was proof she was on a beach at the time of her murder. I never agreed with this theory. Anyways, I was somewhat surprised this was never brought up, and I believe what I did back then -- that the particles were in the tank itself, before she entered.
     
    squareandrabbet, MsBetsy and MadMcGoo like this.
  13. Userid

    Userid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,177
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Trophy Points:
    113
    100% agree.
     
  14. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    16,584
    Likes Received:
    142,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, the details about the open lid and access to the main tank by way of the ladder were described in court documents several years ago. It was misreported that the lid was closed in the beginning, which led to a lot of confusion and speculation.

    I had not heard the information about the notes before, either. All I remember is that the roommates said her behavior was strange and disruptive. They never really said why until now.

    In regard to the sand like substance on her clothes, I too always thought it was from sediment on the bottom of the tank, much like the sediment that collects on the bottom of a hot water heater after several years.

    Imo
     
  15. imstilla.grandma

    imstilla.grandma Believer of Miracles

    Messages:
    12,735
    Likes Received:
    95,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In the documentary, Price claims all footage of Elisa Lam's disappearance were provided to the police in the days following the discovery of Lam's body. She also says no footage had been manipulated.

    "I did everything that I was supposed to do, notified the authorities and, knowing that she had passed away, but it was really hard for me to wrap my own head around," Price told Metro in an interview following the documentary's release. "It then really turned into quite a circus, but my job was to stay focused and get the hotel back and running and move forward."
    Amy Price Now: Did Cecil Hotel Manager Edit Footage of Elisa Lam's Disappearance?


    Mike and Sabina Baugh, who arrived at the hotel shortly after Elisa disappeared, believed that the only explanation for Elisa’s body getting into the water tank, was if she was killed by one of the hotel staff. However, it was only when the couple watched the full documentary, that they changed their minds.

    Speaking to Metro.co.uk about their initial theory, Mike began: ‘When we were interviewed one of the questions we were asked is, “What do we think?” (happened to Elisa). ‘What we felt was the only possibility, was that it was someone who works in the hotel because it’s very difficult to get to the roof.’ ‘But by the end of the documentary, it completely changed our opinion,’ he added.
    Cecil Hotel: Guest thought staff member had killed Elisa Lam until Netflix doc
    Review:


     
    MsBetsy, squareandrabbet and MadMcGoo like this.
  16. imstilla.grandma

    imstilla.grandma Believer of Miracles

    Messages:
    12,735
    Likes Received:
    95,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
  17. imstilla.grandma

    imstilla.grandma Believer of Miracles

    Messages:
    12,735
    Likes Received:
    95,134
    Trophy Points:
    113
  18. Euclid

    Euclid New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Suicide. In the documentary, they say that the police found the lid on the water tank. But that's irrelevant. The maintenance man was the first to find the body. The film later clarifies that the maintenance man found the lid off.

    Re: the elevator surveillance footage. When she first gets on the elevator on the 14th floor she has already been on the roof, via the fire escape if you like. She is suffering severely from her bipolar disorder. She has stopped out of school to go to SoCal in the winter! Alone! And found herself on skid row! She is struggling. Depression is a *****. She is behaving oddly, and is moved out of a shared room. She becomes suicidal. She starts thinking up a plan. Jumping off the roof comes to mind as an obvious choice. She scouts out the roof, and notices the water towers, and scouts those out as well. She is undecided as to whether to commit suicide, but two plans keep running through her mind--jumping 15 stories vs. drowning. She gets back on the elevator. She is conflicted. She may be in a psychotic state and/or manic state from her mental illness. We already know that she has contemplated suicide in the past, and it was very scary for her to do so. She tries to calm herself by acting nonchalant, swinging her right arm up to push a button. She is still conflicted. She presses several buttons, perhaps randomly, in a state of confusion, distress, and deep inner conflict. Importantly, she pushes the "hold" button--perhaps by accident, perhaps intentionally. She presses herself into the corner of the elevator, as if to hide from those "inner demons" that want to lead her back to the rooftop. She may be hearing voices--command hallucinations telling her to kill herself. She peeks out the elevator door. She doesn't want to be seen in this state, and she doesn't want to be caught going back up the fire escape, if that is what she decides to do. Despite her ambivalence, she does want not to be "rescued" by a passerby. The sense of shame would be too great. She takes a little hop out into the corridor, as if imagining and rehearsing the leap from the rooftop. She takes some curious sidesteps, as if now imagining herself sidling along the edge of the roof, before stepping backwards off the imaginary ledge, back to the safety of the elevator. She steps back out into the corridor. She engages in some odd movements, perhaps imagining herself treading water in the tank, or floating through air from 15 stories up. Or perhaps she is performing some ritualistic final dance, as she prepares her mind for her final act. And then, she is gone.



     
  19. Euclid

    Euclid New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Suicide. In the documentary, they say that the police found the lid on the water tank. But that's irrelevant. The maintenance man was the first to find the body. The film later clarifies that the maintenance man found the lid off.

    Re: the elevator surveillance footage. When she first gets on the elevator on the 14th floor she has already been on the roof, via the fire escape if you like. She is suffering severely from her bipolar disorder. She has stopped out of school to go to SoCal in the winter! Alone! And found herself on skid row! She is struggling. Depression is a *****. She is behaving oddly, and is moved out of a shared room. She becomes suicidal. She starts thinking up a plan. Jumping off the roof comes to mind as an obvious choice. She scouts out the roof, and notices the water towers, and scouts those out as well. She is undecided as to whether to commit suicide, but two plans keep running through her mind--jumping 15 stories vs. drowning. She gets back on the elevator. She is conflicted. She may be in a psychotic state and/or manic state from her mental illness. We already know that she has contemplated suicide in the past, and it was very scary for her to do so. She tries to calm herself by acting nonchalant, swinging her right arm up to push a button. She is still conflicted. She presses several buttons, perhaps randomly, in a state of confusion, distress, and deep inner conflict. Importantly, she pushes the "hold" button--perhaps by accident, perhaps intentionally. She presses herself into the corner of the elevator, as if to hide from those "inner demons" that want to lead her back to the rooftop. She may be hearing voices--command hallucinations telling her to kill herself. She peeks out the elevator door. She doesn't want to be seen in this state, and she doesn't want to be caught going back up the fire escape, if that is what she decides to do. Despite her ambivalence, she does want not to be "rescued" by a passerby. The sense of shame would be too great. She takes a little hop out into the corridor, as if imagining and rehearsing the leap from the rooftop. She takes some curious sidesteps, as if now imagining herself sidling along the edge of the roof, before stepping backwards off the imaginary ledge, back to the safety of the elevator. She steps back out into the corridor. She engages in some odd movements, perhaps imagining herself treading water in the tank, or floating through air from 15 stories up. Or perhaps she is performing some ritualistic final dance, as she prepares her mind for her final act. And then, she is gone.



     
    MsBetsy likes this.
  20. Euclid

    Euclid New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Suicide. In the documentary, they say that the police found the lid on the water tank. But that's irrelevant. The maintenance man was the first to find the body. The film later clarifies that the maintenance man found the lid off.

    Re: the elevator surveillance footage. When she first gets on the elevator on the 14th floor she has already been on the roof, via the fire escape if you like. She is suffering severely from her bipolar disorder. She has stopped out of school to go to SoCal in the winter! Alone! And found herself on skid row! She is struggling. Depression is a *****. She is behaving oddly, and is moved out of a shared room. She becomes suicidal. She starts thinking up a plan. Jumping off the roof comes to mind as an obvious choice. She scouts out the roof, and notices the water towers, and scouts those out as well. She is undecided as to whether to commit suicide, but two plans keep running through her mind--jumping 15 stories vs. drowning. She gets back on the elevator. She is conflicted. She may be in a psychotic state and/or manic state from her mental illness. We already know that she has contemplated suicide in the past, and it was very scary for her to do so. She tries to calm herself by acting nonchalant, swinging her right arm up to push a button. She is still conflicted. She presses several buttons, perhaps randomly, in a state of confusion, distress, and deep inner conflict. Importantly, she pushes the "hold" button--perhaps by accident, perhaps intentionally. She presses herself into the corner of the elevator, as if to hide from those "inner demons" that want to lead her back to the rooftop. She may be hearing voices--command hallucinations telling her to kill herself. She peeks out the elevator door. She doesn't want to be seen in this state, and she doesn't want to be caught going back up the fire escape, if that is what she decides to do. Despite her ambivalence, she does want not to be "rescued" by a passerby. The sense of shame would be too great. She takes a little hop out into the corridor, as if imagining and rehearsing the leap from the rooftop. She takes some curious sidesteps, as if now imagining herself sidling along the edge of the roof, before stepping backwards off the imaginary ledge, back to the safety of the elevator. She steps back out into the corridor. She engages in some odd movements, perhaps imagining herself treading water in the tank, or floating through air from 15 stories up. Or perhaps she is performing some ritualistic final dance, as she prepares her mind for her final act. And then, she is gone.
     

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice