Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #2

Status
Not open for further replies.

MaxManning

New Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
1,438
Reaction score
6
You can probably get them through pacer but it costs on a per page basis. Not sure what the cost is bc when I did have an account, I could rack up huge bills without even realizing it. So, I cancelled my account.

wow, thanks for that, I had no idea that existed.

What a racket though. Freedom of information is clearly not free monetarily in terms of gaining access, haha.

I don't believe I'd ever use it, but nice to know something like this exists.
 

shadowraiths

LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
2,876
Reaction score
137
Website
crimsonshadows.net
I'm glad you brought up Jodi! Who does 7 months in jail for a DUI? And yes, it seems like they abused their power and used the no contact order to harass them both. In addition, they kept trying to get her to turn on SA, and when that didn't pan out, set their sites on Brendan.

I realize that was the view from the documentary point of view. I'd like to know more about why Jodi served 7 months in jail for a DUI. Most people do a little jail time, lose their license & pay a fine - unless it was a 3rd or 4th offense.

Also, can't remember why there was a no contact order?

And finally they just made it impossible for her to not move away and cease contact. Was this for her own good? Is it legal? Or was it just to punish SA even more?

Seemed unusually harsh to me, considering the repeat offenders that go in and out of jail without this much scrutiny on their day to day life.
Imo, with regard to Brendan, it appears one of his classmates reported that he told her he saw human bones in a bonfire at Avery's place. She later recanted, on the stand, and in tears, claiming she was just trying to get him into trouble, and had made it up. It's very bizarre, imho. But I do think that is why they started focusing upon him.
 

ziggy

Active Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
4,750
Reaction score
18
Website
Visit site
This is around the time that I started googling to see the "whole" story. Good luck... it gets worse ;-) I binge watched it, stayed up till 4 am, got up at 8 with the kids and started watching again the minute they left for school LOL

I binge watched too - and then, binge researched to try and find the "whole" story too! I never trust one side of the story. I haven't found much to change my mind that the trials were unjust. Beyond the much discussed coerced confession, invalid tests and results - what about the prevention of the Some Other Dude Did It (SODDI) defense? That is almost ALWAYS allowed! In fact, this is the first time I've seen a judge deny such a defense.
 

MaxManning

New Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
1,438
Reaction score
6
I thought it interesting that the above film, at 11:46 pm, suddenly jumps to 12:24 pm. That's 38 minutes that are missing from the interview. What didn't they want us to see?

Haha, I noticed this and posted that earlier on this thread a week or so ago. It is at points where maybe he says things they might not like. Is it possible that it is regarding things that they couldn't expose jury to ? That was what I was thinking might be the case. I think that video is something edited for court usage, not the raw source video.


Either way, would be good to know.
 

missy1974

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
10,142
Reaction score
31,353
TheDuchess, I have a tab open too to the original page LOL I tried duplicating the page and it went to the new "bug" page! Strange indeed ;-)

I didn't read anything on his site about an alternative not-named suspect. If anyone comes across the information, please post so I can read :) thanks! (it sounds like it's a reach anyway, but still curious lol)
 

shadowraiths

LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
2,876
Reaction score
137
Website
crimsonshadows.net
wow, thanks for that, I had no idea that existed.

What a racket though. Freedom of information is clearly not free monetarily in terms of gaining access, haha.

I don't believe I'd ever use it, but nice to know something like this exists.
It's a government run site and the majority of legal proceedings are now logged through that. It can be frustrating to navigate, as you needed to know which district to search. Though, they could have changed that bit. It's been several years since I had an account. I think the last time I used it was when I was following the Trenton Puckett case.

Anyway, here's the link Public Access to Court Electronic Records (P.A.C.E.R)
 

Sleuther87

New Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
95
Reaction score
1
Do you have specifics on the size of the room? How many exact searches there were? Where in the testimony did you get your information? Just curious...

I posted this once before, but will post it again. The details surrounding how long it took to find the key as presented in the series are misleading: https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...mation_on_the_searches_of_averys_trailer_and/

"The key was found on the sixth entry into the trailer, but it was only the second general search of the trailer after the first search was called off due to the rain and late hour. So it was technically found in the first 3.5 hours of searching for general physical evidence."
 

MaxManning

New Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
1,438
Reaction score
6
I binge watched too - and then, binge researched to try and find the "whole" story too! I never trust one side of the story. I haven't found much to change my mind that the trials were unjust. Beyond the much discussed coerced confession, invalid tests and results - what about the prevention of the Some Other Dude Did It (SODDI) defense? That is almost ALWAYS allowed! In fact, this is the first time I've seen a judge deny such a defense.

Yeah, in this case it's the "we didn't even bother to investigate these other guys, but that's fair, right?" rule in action. Judge came across to me as biased.

That is one reason I want to see the avery transcripts so badly. I want to understand some of the rulings the judge made, and the reasons he gave for making them. Specifically in regards to the alternative suspects.

In the avery trial there is constant mention of DENNY -- I am assuming that this is some kind of court protocol for who can be presented as an alternative suspect or something of that nature. Anyone ?
 

SCHMAE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
Messages
13,143
Reaction score
2,883
I'm glad you brought up Jodi! Who does 7 months in jail for a DUI? And yes, it seems like they abused their power and used the no contact order to harass them both. In addition, they kept trying to get her to turn on SA, and when that didn't pan out, set their sites on Brendan.

I realize that was the view from the documentary point of view. I'd like to know more about why Jodi served 7 months in jail for a DUI. Most people do a little jail time, lose their license & pay a fine - unless it was a 3rd or 4th offense.

Also, can't remember why there was a no contact order?

And finally they just made it impossible for her to not move away and cease contact. Was this for her own good? Is it legal? Or was it just to punish SA even more?

Seemed unusually harsh to me, considering the repeat offenders that go in and out of jail without this much scrutiny on their day to day life.

One thing the docu did not show was the domestic violence of SA towards Jodi. I wonder if the no contact had more to do with that ? ** speculative**
 

SCHMAE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
Messages
13,143
Reaction score
2,883
Yeah, in this case it's the "we didn't even bother to investigate these other guys, but that's fair, right?" rule in action. Judge came across to me as biased.

That is one reason I want to see the avery transcripts so badly. I want to understand some of the rulings the judge made, and the reasons he gave for making them. Specifically in regards to the alternative suspects.

In the avery trial there is constant mention of DENNY -- I am assuming that this is some kind of court protocol for who can be presented as an alternative suspect or something of that nature. Anyone ?

Someone posted in the last part of the last thread SA's own new filings with the court that he has worked on. I commented on it and there is tons and tons within his document about the DENNY rules. I will try to go back and find that for you . It's an interesting read where SA points a finger loosely at his own brothers and at Tadych as well.

ETA Actually it may be earlier in this thread. I didn't realize how quickly we're filling up pages here.
 

MaxManning

New Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
1,438
Reaction score
6
Imo, with regard to Brendan, it appears one of his classmates reported that he told her he saw human bones in a bonfire at Avery's place. She later recanted, on the stand, and in tears, claiming she was just trying to get him into trouble, and had made it up. It's very bizarre, imho. But I do think that is why they started focusing upon him.


It was his cousin - Earl Avery's daughter Kayla, not a classmate.

She told her guidance counselor that brendan had been crying, had lost weight, and had seen human bones in a bonfire.

She didn't say she was trying to get him in trouble, but rather that she made it up.

Some will say she was seeking attention and didn't think her guidance counselor would tell anyone, so it was basically for drama.

Some will say that she told the truth and later recanted after family pressured her.


To be honest, I tend to believe #2 more, but #1 isn't a huge stretch as kids don't often think things through and often gossip about things that aren't true.
 

SCHMAE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
Messages
13,143
Reaction score
2,883
Yeah, in this case it's the "we didn't even bother to investigate these other guys, but that's fair, right?" rule in action. Judge came across to me as biased.

That is one reason I want to see the avery transcripts so badly. I want to understand some of the rulings the judge made, and the reasons he gave for making them. Specifically in regards to the alternative suspects.

In the avery trial there is constant mention of DENNY -- I am assuming that this is some kind of court protocol for who can be presented as an alternative suspect or something of that nature. Anyone ?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ntary-on-Steven-Avery&p=12270467#post12270467
Interesting read. My assumption is " Denny' is an existing case he found for precedence but it's a bit long and rambling. Enjoy !
 

shadowraiths

LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
2,876
Reaction score
137
Website
crimsonshadows.net
It was his cousin - Earl Avery's daughter Kayla, not a classmate.

She told her guidance counselor that brendan had been crying, had lost weight, and had seen human bones in a bonfire.

She didn't say she was trying to get him in trouble, but rather that she made it up.

Some will say she was seeking attention and didn't think her guidance counselor would tell anyone, so it was basically for drama.

Some will say that she told the truth and later recanted after family pressured her.


To be honest, I tend to believe #2 more, but #1 isn't a huge stretch as kids don't often think things through and often gossip about things that aren't true.
Thank you for this correction, more importantly, the clarification. I was confused in the documentary when they had her on the stand. And yes, I agree with you regarding claim #2. The Avery's are certainly an odd lot, with a seemingly beyond the norm propensity for engaging in illegal and violent behavior.
 

MaxManning

New Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
1,438
Reaction score
6
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ntary-on-Steven-Avery&p=12270467#post12270467
Interesting read. My assumption is " Denny' is an existing case he found for precedence but it's a bit long and rambling. Enjoy !

Yep, I do have these documents. I have to admit that at the time I was more interested in what they were saying about the alternative suspects than why they were not allowed in original trial.

I remember reading Denny a million times seemingly! I'll give this a better read on the parts that feel as if they are going to fly over my head, because of the legal speak.

But I remember thinking that State vs Denny likely has details on a criteria for what is admissible ? I'll read this again to see if it gives a criteria.
 

missy1974

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
10,142
Reaction score
31,353
I found a cache of the mysterious "visitor" on the wayback machine! woo-hoo! lol

Here's the link: An Alternative

Thanks! not sure what to think of that lol it's interesting, and it was posted in 2009, so not like it's some whacko coming out with an insane story now that they have seen the show. Would be interesting to know if any of her story was verified before he posted that (he could have verified and still not released the names)
 

SCHMAE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2011
Messages
13,143
Reaction score
2,883
Yep, I do have these documents. I have to admit that at the time I was more interested in what they were saying about the alternative suspects than why they were not allowed in original trial.

I remember reading Denny a million times seemingly! I'll give this a better read on the parts that feel as if they are going to fly over my head, because of the legal speak.

But I remember thinking that State vs Denny likely has details on a criteria for what is admissible ? I'll read this again to see if it gives a criteria.

Now, I may have to read it again because I was thinking the Denny rule applied to the ' alternative suspects' that were not mentioned by the DA, like the brothers and Tadych.
 

stephsb

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
402
Reaction score
13
I'm glad you brought up Jodi! Who does 7 months in jail for a DUI? And yes, it seems like they abused their power and used the no contact order to harass them both. In addition, they kept trying to get her to turn on SA, and when that didn't pan out, set their sites on Brendan.

I realize that was the view from the documentary point of view. I'd like to know more about why Jodi served 7 months in jail for a DUI. Most people do a little jail time, lose their license & pay a fine - unless it was a 3rd or 4th offense.

Also, can't remember why there was a no contact order?

And finally they just made it impossible for her to not move away and cease contact. Was this for her own good? Is it legal? Or was it just to punish SA even more?

Seemed unusually harsh to me, considering the repeat offenders that go in and out of jail without this much scrutiny on their day to day life.

Jodi served time for her 5th DUI, a class H felony. She also had at least 5 charges of operating w. A revoked license, failure to report to jail, 2 misdemeanor writing worthless checks, and 1 or 2 disorderly conducts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

NothingClever

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
72
Reaction score
416
With all due respect for the guy, because I have referred to the information numerous times, It doesn't read to me like he doesn't have a dog in the race. It's clearly from the slant that he believed Avery was innocent. Someone who doesn't have a dog in the race will post from both sides of the coin, even if it brings their own belief into question.

Also gone now is an alternative suspect who never got named, but was some kind of arsonist. The story was often mentioned in this thread and much akin to the Mr Bojangles of WM3 fame, but even though he said he knew who this guy was, no name was ever given. If you think someone is potentially guilty of murder, seems like something you'd want to push further, not clam up about. right ?

Mr BoJangles was seen once and never seen again. Maybe Brian's mistake was suggesting he knew the identity of this mystery person. Might also be a factor in why his site is now down ? idk Might just be down due to high traffic.

I was able to get it by grabbing the cached page:

You have reached the cached page for http://www.convolutedbrian.com/an-alternative.html
Below is a snapshot of the Web page as it appeared on 1/5/2016. This is the version of the page that was used for ranking your search results. The page may have changed since it was last cached. To see what might have changed (without the highlights), go to the current page.
You searched for: "In their zeal to make Steven Avery" We have highlighted matching words that appear in the page below.
Yahoo! is not responsible for the content of this page.
Convoluted Brian

the weBlog of Brian McCorkle

The Importance of Understanding
An Alternative

While the Search for Teresa Halbach was underway in November 2005, another series of events was beginning in Bonduel, Wisconsin.

A woman was moving from Bonduel, Wisconsin to Maribel. She had rented a house with the lease to start on 1 November, 2005. The house was on a property that included several outbuildings.

In Bonduel, her husband had exhibited bizarre behavior such as sleeping in their attic and sleeping in a fetal position.

She discovered that the labels had been cut from her clothing, and then her underwear was missing. Her husband denied any knowledge. During the week, he said he burned something at their new address and said it was a doll crib. There was a doll crib at the Maribel address, however, it was not burnt, however.

During the marriage, the citizen found that her husband had attempted to burn himself in the past. He also had previously burnt her clothing. He was diagnosed with personality disorder, narcissistic disorder, depressive disorder, and psychosis, but he refused to take medication.

She found that on 31 October, 2005, he visited the Maribel area and had stopped at the rental before the lease began. He spoke of visiting an auto salvage yard. He commented that a woman wanted to take pictures of the rental property on 31 October while he was there, and he felt that the photographer was “stupid.”

During the week, she observed that her husband had scratches on his back and a cut finger that bled intermittently. She was beginning the move while working in Green Bay.

She found her underwear stuffed in an attic closet at the Bonduel home. She also noted a boombox along with cans of Cherry Pepsi Cola near the steps of the Maribel home. Her underwear disappeared again.

On the 5 of November, when they stopped for lunch in the Maribel area, the husband saw a missing person poster for Halbach and stated dogmatically, “She’s dead.”

The following evening, her husband’s behavior turned worse. He refused to allow her into the Maribel rental. The citizen contacted the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s department, and he was arrested on 6 November, 2005. He was charged with disorderly conduct and resisting an officer.

When she returned to the Bonduel home to continue the move, she checked the attic cupboard again for her missing underwear. Instead, she found a pair of yellow lace panties than were not hers. They were about her size and had stains consistent with menstruation. She placed the panties in a plastic bag to ask her husband about them.

About 10 November, 2005 she looked through the outbuildings in Maribel for her missing clothing. She found some of her clothing cut into pieces. She also discovered a can of lighter fluid with a bloody fingerprint.

Unbeknownst to the citizen, her husband had been placed in two separate psychiatric care facilities during his custody. He was released to an outside address in January, 2006. Court records show that address as Glen’s Bar and Grill in Manitowoc. The County did not notify the woman that her husband was free and in the community.

Between November and the end of the year, a few odd things happened. Two explicit adult magazines were placed on the property. Also, her dogs found relatively fresh bones somewhere on the property. She discarded the bones.

While attempting to distract the dogs from the bones, the citizen dropped her husband’s tool chest in one of the outbuildings. A masons’ hammer and a pair of surgical gloves fell from the chest. The hammer had visible dark red flecks.

In January, she noticed a person staring at her home from the gas station/truck stop across the road. She then discovered that her husband had been released as well as his address. When she parked in the parking lot of the bar and grill, he approached her car and insisted that she take him to the Maribel residence and began searching the house. During the search, he struck her. She called the Sheriff’s Department, and her husband was rearrested.

The new charges were burglary, intimidation of a witness, criminal trespass, resisting an officer, and bail jumping.

One night she noted a second floor balcony door was open. She entered the home and secured the door. After that she discovered an opened closet at the base of the stairs with a pair of women’s jeans, a top, and a pillowcase stained with red stains.

She contacted the sheriff’s department. When a deputy arrived, the citizen explained her findings and wondered if the clothing were connected with the Halbach case. She then discussed the other incidents with the deputy. The deputy stated that she believed the Halbach clothing had been recovered! She collected one magazine and the yellow panties.

If the Halbach clothing had been recovered, it was not information that was released at or after the trial of Steven Avery. If not, then the deputy was fabricating.

The citizen was contacted by Manitowoc County Detective Dennis Jacobs. Jacobs is the child sex investigator for Manitowoc County. He insisted that the panties were from a child despite the staining and size. He wanted the citizen to accuse her husband of pedophilia. He also volunteered that authorities had their suspect in the Halbach case.

She told Detective Jacobs of the cut clothing and a previous incident when her husband had burnt her clothing. His response was that was not a crime.

The woman left Wisconsin for a job in Oregon. On 2 March, 2006 the Manitowoc County prosecutor dismissed the charges of burglary and intimidation against the husband. Charges of disorderly conduct, criminal trespass, and bail jumping were also dismissed. He pleaded no contest to the two resisting officer charges and was sentenced to time served.

She believes that the victim services office in Manitowoc County provided her husband with her new address. He was at her door soon after his release.

She considered the events of the week of 31 October, 2005, and her husband’s behaviors and injuries. The citizen believes that there may be a connection with the Halbach disappearance. When she asked her husband about any possible connection, he simply laughed and said no one would believe her if she reported her suspicions.

But, she had developed a distrust of Manitowoc County law enforcement. Her husband was probably correct that the Wisconsin authorities could not accept the concept that someone else did the crime.
by Brian McCorkle
posted on 23 June, 2009 at 20:17 pm
in category Steven Avery
Comments Off
The Poster Child Effect -->
<-- The Avery Appeal Step One
 

stephsb

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
402
Reaction score
13
Yep, I do have these documents. I have to admit that at the time I was more interested in what they were saying about the alternative suspects than why they were not allowed in original trial.

I remember reading Denny a million times seemingly! I'll give this a better read on the parts that feel as if they are going to fly over my head, because of the legal speak.

But I remember thinking that State vs Denny likely has details on a criteria for what is admissible ? I'll read this again to see if it gives a criteria.

Denny does give criteria, it's a 3 prong test that must be met in order to name alternative suspects in court IIRC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top