Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #2

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diesel

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Yes, links to the dassey trial transcripts were posted on this thread, well the #1 thread, by another user.

I asked where the user got them, but no answer to that question. I am assuming maybe reddit has them too.

You can search that first thread and find them as well as other docs that were found. ie dassey trial and interview transcripts.

Thanks. Is it considered odd that his were posted and not Steven's? Just curious.
 

Safeguard

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Yes, links to the dassey trial transcripts were posted on this thread, well the #1 thread, by another user.

I asked where the user got them, but no answer to that question. I am assuming maybe reddit has them too.

You can search that first thread and find them as well as other docs that were found. ie dassey trial and interview transcripts.

Yes. I Googled "Dassey transcripts" and it brought up a reddit link to them.
 

MaxManning

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Thanks. Is it considered odd that his were posted and not Steven's? Just curious.

To me, yes, I do find it odd.

But if it's up to someone like myself to spend a bunch of money to get them from the government, then naw, it's not that odd at all.

But for Avery's legal team, supporters, and the documentary team...

I'll leave it at that, yes I find it odd. :)
 

mcwhit

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http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?226155-WI-Dawn-Schnetzer-17-Menasha-September-1978

Another unsolved murder where the victim was found in Calumet County, WI was Dawn Marie Schnetzer. She was found on Willow Road (near the intersection of Cnty Rd BB, only 1.7 miles from where Karen M. Halbach lives/lived at 3550 County Road B, Hilbert, WI. She was strangled or had her throat cut also.

https://goo.gl/maps/sJuGP1yUgfK2

Karen Halbach is Teresa Marie Halbach's mother.

There is also this:

http://php.wisinfo.com/mktg/unsolved_apc/

Irene Roedig
 

Justiceseeker35

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Hi!
So I've been watching this too, I'm on episode 4. Some things really stand out to me about the corruption theory.
The Dassey interrogation was very hard to watch. I think they really did some leading to get him to agree to some of the things they believed happened. I know the body was found burned in a pit used for a bon fire. But could they tell she was shot in the head, her throat cut and sexually assaulted from the ME report? I mean did they go in there knowing her cause of death before Dassey agreed with the injuries? I'm trying to figure out if he actually gave any new information as opposed to just agreeing with the LE officers. Also, the bon fire the night of her disappearance. Any one who was involved in a conspiracy to frame SA must have known about that fire pit and its use. So someone who resides on the property sure would know but.. was SA under surveilience by LE? That could go a long way towards knowing what were the comings and goings on of the Avery family. Lastly the delay in finding the key with his dna on it really gets under my skin. The Dassey confession there was a point made about how SA was very sweaty when he answered the door (sweat was found on the key, to sort of drive that point home).
 

MaxManning

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http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?226155-WI-Dawn-Schnetzer-17-Menasha-September-1978

Another unsolved murder where the victim was found in Calumet County, WI was Dawn Marie Schnetzer. She was found on Willow Road (near the intersection of Cnty Rd BB, only 1.7 miles from where Karen M. Halbach lives/lived at 3550 County Road B, Hilbert, WI. She was strangled or had her throat cut also.

https://goo.gl/maps/sJuGP1yUgfK2

Karen Halbach is Teresa Marie Halbach's mother.


This was in 1978, so is the thought that a 16 year old Avery or possibly another person in the area was responsible for this murder and the halbach murder ? Chuck Avery? Scott Tadych ?


Was there any other solved murders maybe that fit this crime as well ?


Detectives are awaiting the results of DNA tests from the FBI and are methodically going through the voluminous case file. Now, they're appealing to the public for help.

this article mentions suspects, but not names of suspects.
 

stephsb

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On her 5th DUI ? I would say she was not to be drinking any alcohol whatsoever as terms of a probation or something.

I would say you are probably correct, at least normally. I had a friend in WI who got 2 DUIs (one before 18, the second at 23) and served 30 days plus a year liscense revocation. I know they are using the car lock breathalyzer things a lot more frequently. I've never known someone to get 5 DUIs but since it's a felony, the terms of many felony probations/paroles include no alcohol consumption. This was certainly not Jodi's first rodeo by any means as far as the court system goes, so I imagine that was why she was treated strictly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

SCHMAE

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I wonder if they will update their article when we get to thread #3 :happydance:

This is members only so we have a rat ! Sometimes I forget how giant this forum is !
 

ziggy

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https://www.wicourts.gov/ca/opinion/DisplayDocument.pdf?content=pdf&seqNo=70129 COURT OF APPEALS OF WISCONSIN
PUBLISHED OPINION

I just happened to have this open and remembered reading something about Denny.... this is what I found on page 20

¶38 In Denny, this court adopted the “legitimate tendency” test for thirdparty
liability evidence. Id. at 623 (citing Alexander v. United States, 138 U.S.
353 (1891)). Thus a defendant is required to demonstrate a legitimate tendency
test that a third person could have committed the crime. The Denny court
explained:
[T]o show “legitimate tendency,” a defendant should not be
required to establish the guilt of third persons with that
degree of certainty requisite to sustain a conviction in order
for this type of evidence to be admitted. On the other hand,
evidence that simply affords a possible ground of suspicion
against another person should not be admissible.
Otherwise, a defendant could conceivably produce
evidence tending to show that hundreds of other persons
had some motive or animus against the deceased—
degenerating the proceedings into a trial of collateral
issues. The “legitimate tendency” test asks whether the
proffered evidence is so remote in time, place or
circumstance that a direct connection cannot be made
between the third person and the crime.
Thus, as long as motive and opportunity have been
shown and as long as there is also some evidence to
directly connect a third person to the crime charged which
is not remote in time, place or circumstances, the evidence
should be admissible.
Denny, 120 Wis. 2d at 623-24 (citation omitted). The legitimate tendency test,
characterized as a “bright line standard,” was summarized by the supreme court as
follows:
No. 2010AP411-CR
20
Third-party defense evidence may be admissible under the
legitimate tendency test if the defendant can show that the
third party had (1) the motive and (2) the opportunity to
commit the charged crime, and (3) can provide some
evidence to directly connect the third person to the crime
charged which is not remote in time, place or circumstance.

Thanks for that. ...based on a case from 1891? There are two more recent cases:
Chambers v Mississippi 410 U.S. 284 (1973).
Holmes v South Carolina 547 U.S. 139 (2006)

In researching this - I found an excellent and thorough examination of these cases. It examines how these cases left the question of what exactly is "a complete defense" unanswered, and how the lower state courts are adding tests and criteria, and that it is essentially chaotic. State v Denny is explained on page 150.

http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1567&context=lawfaculty

Anyway - it's a great read and explains how different the states are in developing their factors for allowing the defendant to introduce the wrong person defense.


I was fixated on this because I watched and actually attended a day of the People v David Westerfield (man who was sentenced to death in CA for abduction and murder of child Danielle VanDam) and the defense was allowed to throw around all kinds of people with the SODDI defense because the parents had experimented with "swingers" as in - switching spouses/partners for sex. Seemed like there were no restrictions on mentioning even un-named people that "could have done it."
 

Aleph

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I've thought about this a lot. Did SA think they ( the law ) ' owed him one' ? He did the time for one he did not do so he may think he can balance the scales of justiice by committing the crime after the fact. Did he think because of the false imprisonment he would be automatically believed this time? I did find one interview in front of his house very early on suspicious in that he mentioned then a 'frame job' before he's even arrested. Things that make you go hmmm and all speculative!

Was this after TH's disappearance? If I were in SA's shoes, I'd be worried about a frame job too, considering he'd just gotten out from under the previous one.

I hear a lot of people thinking along the same lines as you -- like maybe he thought he was untouchable or should get a freebie. Of course that's possible, but I don't see the evidence for it in Avery's actions or demeanor. He seemed elated when he was let out of jail and even talked a lot about forgiving those responsible for putting him away. He seemed sincere to me.
 

SCHMAE

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Was this after TH's disappearance? If I were in SA's shoes, I'd be worried about a frame job too, considering he'd just gotten out from under the previous one.

I hear a lot of people thinking along the same lines as you -- like maybe he thought he was untouchable or should get a freebie. Of course that's possible, but I don't see the evidence for it in Avery's actions or demeanor. He seemed elated when he was let out of jail and even talked a lot about forgiving those responsible for putting him away. He seemed sincere to me.

Yes, correct. It's in the docu. He's standing in front of his house talking to a reporter about when he last saw her , etc. Implies, but I cannot remember his exact words, but that it's a setup / frame up or something.
 

bessie

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ADMIN NOTE:

I guess this is a good time to announce that the threads will be moved to the public forum when I open number three. We generally don't move threads from the members only area to the public forum, but this is such a high profile discussion that we are going to make an exception.

If anyone objects to their posts being relocated, please address your concerns to Tricia or me in a private message, or send an email to [email protected], and we'll do our best to accommodate any reasonable requests. (e.g., you would like a few posts removed).

:tyou:
 

ziggy

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So, this is the part that flies over my head due to legal speak.


I think everyone on that property fits #2.
Chuck, Earl, Fabian, Scott, and Bobby could potentially fit #1 based on the asset appeal transcript
#3 , seems nearly impossible to fit for anyone imo if you didn't investigate. right ?

Well here's what I don't get: #1 says motive. The Wisconsin Court of Appeals denied based on no motive for 3rd parties in prong 1 - yet - what was SA's motive once you remove the sexual assault charges? The prosecution doesn't even have to provide a motive and they have the weight of the burden. The defendant has to show motive? OK - it could have been sexually motivated. But now prong #3 is the final limitation nail in the coffin: the defendant has to show that there is evidence linking the OTHER to the crime charged (murder and mutilation of corpse) which is not remote in time, place or circumstance. If you can't investigate the OTHER, you can't find any evidence.

So until the SCOTUS takes up a case on this - it's all over the place with the states.
 

ziggy

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On her 5th DUI ? I would say she was not to be drinking any alcohol whatsoever as terms of a probation or something.
Thanks to you both and all - that explains why in the doc. Jodi kept saying she couldn't drink. I was wondering at the time if that was a self imposed rule because she was an alcoholic or what. Now it's clear. She was getting the book thrown at her, deservedly so.
 

shadowraiths

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I saw someone note that they weren't going to trust this site, because it looked like it was made in 1999.
lolol. Well, truth be told. I think Tricia started the site in response to the 1996 JonBenét Ramsey murder. I have no idea when she actually launched the site but I'm pretty sure it's been around for quite a long time.
 

MaxManning

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For those interested in the alternate suspect theory :

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3yt2c3/an_alternate_theory_continued_spoilers/

Lots of talk about confirmed information, but zero proof in regards to how it was confirmed.


So the story is that in 2009 the guy was deported.

Then you have this :
"The citizen begins having trouble with local law enforcement, culminating in her arrest for animal cruelty in 2013. She currently has a warrant out for her arrest by the Manitowoc Sheriff's department (both verified with court documents), though she since moved out of state. The citizen also produced links to Facebook profiles for the husband. Looks like he's living abroad still, though not in his native country."

Kind of seems likely to me that The Citizen might have a few screws loose as well, and might possibly tell some tall tales about a local case to get some attention.

My largest hesitance to believe any of this, is that the husband was arrested, so there should be record of this that someone could just post and that's an easy step #1 in making any of this believable.

There is talk of buildings burned down, yet not one address that we can look at ? If a building is burned down, isn't that a public record ?

Surely there'd be a police record of someone going to this property. Which is what this theory conveniently suggests is the source of the Colburn plate's call on the 3rd.


I'd be really open to this theory, if it didn't seem like everyone yapping about it didn't act like you need a secret handshake to get anything resembling actual proof that any of it is even remotely true.



Yeah, I think it's bs. Not one of Brian's most credible posts imo.
It's a bunch of reddit users looking for attention.




 
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