Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #3

Discussion in 'Netflix Series: Making A Murderer' started by bessie, Jan 9, 2016.

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  1. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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  3. MaxManning

    MaxManning New Member

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    Did that have to happen at the bonfire ?

    If brendan could say something specific about the conversation between Steve and Jodi, it would have relevance. Right ?

    But the police knew the conversation occurred and they likely asked brendan if he knew about it. I guarantee you this, if brendan had given a specific detail from that phone call that steve told him and jodi confirmed, we'd have gotten an earful of that by now. So I trust that it has no relevance.
     
  4. MissKJN

    MissKJN New Member

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    Hi, it's been a while since I have bee active here. I was trying to read the original thread related to Teresa Halbach and I keep getting a message saying I do not have permission/ access. Maybe my account was deactivated for inactivity? Any idea how I fix this?
     
  5. MaxManning

    MaxManning New Member

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    So, in your mind the fact that they had other law enforcement bodies telling them "We believe we know the guy that did it" and they chose not to investigate or put him in a photo lineup doesn't constitute an unfair investigation/trial ?

    forget about the DNA. They CHOSE to look away from someone other law enforcement was pointing at. It wasn't steve avery pointing the finger, it was other law enforcement.

    That's not a maybe. That's factual.

    But you want me to accept that again they might not do the same thing again , with a 36 million dollar lawsuit in the mix?? :/

    Yet...

    they didn't investigate the ex boyfriend.
    They didn't investigate chuck and earl avery who had sexual assault pasts and access to the junkyard ?

    Are you suggesting that the ex-boyfriend and ex convicts of sexual crimes are insane leads ?

    Earl hid under a pile of clothes when they came to interview him for heavens sake! :)

    I'm confused.

    Don't get me wrong, I think on a very logical level, you and I likely believe the same thing, as I believe that the probability of Steve Avery being the killer is very high.

    But where we differ is I believe in an actual investigation, even when you are 99% certain you got your guy.
     
  6. shadowraiths

    shadowraiths LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special Staff Member Moderator

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    It appears the Wisconsin Department of Justice has joined Brendan's attorney for the filing of his latest writ of habeas corpus. Which is a good sign. Many probably already knew this (I didn't) bc this article was posted on December 27, 2015. While I won't be holding my breath, it does give me some hope that Brendan's mistreatment will be vindicated. Even though, I admittedly wonder what effects (negative, I'm sure) this whole thing has on Brendan, as he's been in prison for a decade.

    Since he was tried as an adult, I wanted to see what Wisconsin's provisions are for such cases. Here's a comprehensive document prepared for the Wisconsin Legislative Council, written in 2008: Treatment of Juveniles in the Wisconsin Criminal Court System: An Analysis of Potential Alternatives. Additionally, a bill has been introduced to the Wisconsin legislature to would cut number of juveniles charged as adults in Wisconsin. Unfortunately, this bill, had it been passed pre-2005, would still not have affected Brendan, as he was only 16 at the time. And, even if he had been 17, he was accused of having committed a violent crime.

    All things considered, I would love to see some changes come about as a result of the publicity this case has received. Especially, with regard to questioning minors.

    Among these, I would like to see laws change that require a parent be present. I was surprised that very few states actually require this. Although, I admittedly do not think his mother being present would have helped, as she seemed as clueless as he.

    Importantly, it is my hope that people educate themselves and their children regarding how miranda really works. That is, do not volunteer anything, even for "friendly questioning." While this may seem counter-intuitive, as the court of public opinion views those who ask for a lawyer as exhibiting guilt, so what. Better to be viewed as guilty by a bunch of arm chair jurors, than go to prison for something you did not do.
     
  7. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    First, I don't want you to accept anything.. I am not trying to convince you. You asked and I answered.. :)

    I never forget about DNA. IT puts someone there. It means something. So for me cases with DNA while they are not always perfect have an undeniable link to the person.
    I believe all cases have insane leads.. Someone hiding under clothes does not to me, say Guilt! IT says crazy.
    For me a big thing is the phone calls. To me it shows his plan to cover for himself in the moment of the crime.
     
  8. GigiG

    GigiG New Member

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    Just to add to your comments, while it's human nature to want to know WHO killed Teresa Halbach, that isn't the issue here. The issue is whether the State proved its case beyond a "reasonable doubt."

    Steven Avery could well be guilty, but gut feelings should never be mistaken for proof; especially when that proof has to be held to the highest of all standards in our justice system.
     
  9. MaxManning

    MaxManning New Member

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    I agree that this is plausible and high probability. I think if we compared Chuck, Steve, Earl side by side without any evidence, we'd see Chuck as the one most likely based on his past interactions with women who were towed to the junkyard.

    My only reason for leaning more towards Steve, is that it's simpler and doesn't require any planting.

    Also, Steve had the phone interactions with teresa that day that I personally find suspicious.

    But I don't see it as hard to believe in the least that CA might be the killer.
     
  10. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    I don't think that is the case at all respectfully.. Did he kill her or not is the only question I care about.
    He was convicted because a jury found him guilty. The jury believed it was beyond a reasonable doubt.
     
  11. Tawny

    Tawny Bye

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    I must have missed this, can you point me to your source?
     
  12. angelainwi

    angelainwi Certified Trauma Counselor

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    The 69yo retired guy is the one with the son in the Manitowoc Sheriff's Department. The defense kept him because he said this about the first Avery case "Honestly I thought the Sheriff's Dept bungled the job."
     
  13. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    Give me a minute to find a source. I heard it on one of the shows and I heard it on more than one show.. Give me a few to find document.
     
  14. Really?

    Really? Active Member

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    Thanks again :shame:
     
  15. shadowraiths

    shadowraiths LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special Staff Member Moderator

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    I respectfully disagree. I watched the whole series, which was obviously slanted (i.e., the title, in and of itself, indicates the filmographer's opinions) and did not come away feeling the man was innocent.

    Since that time, and having dug through what documentation is available (no, not MSM's take, court records), I have yet to be convinced the man is innocent. Even so, at this point in time, I do not believe the prosecution proved their case "beyond a reasonable doubt." There were just too many unexplainable issues.

    And no, I do not think LEOs framed the guy. In fact, I think the defense made a couple of huge mistakes, one letting the filmographers follow them around and tape their discussions. Importantly, accusing LEOs of framing SA. I do however, think the LEOs, in their zeal, planted evidence to match the story they coerced from Brendan. I also think the DA was so excited about the media attention, that he put forth a gruesome story that, in reality, was simply not backed up by physical evidence. Glaringly, where is the blood? Where is Ms. Halbach's DNA?

    And finally, while I, personally, think SA is guilty, I am willing to entertain other possible scenarios.

    That said, I am challenging your assertion bc, imho, it is laced with assumptions and sweeping generalizations.
     
  16. Really?

    Really? Active Member

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    Probably.."let me guess.....uummmm....Nancy Grace or HLN
     
  17. MaxManning

    MaxManning New Member

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    I didn't ask you to forget about DNA - I made the comment because you noted the first crime didn't have DNA - simple misunderstanding of what I said, not a big deal.

    you said :
    Maybe would have been better to say "Forget about the lack of DNA". -- they had great reason to investigate another suspect.

    I was using the accept wording as a figure of speech. I know that you weren't truly requiring me to accept it! :) sorry about that.

    If you want to answer a question, it's "Do you think investigating Chuck Avery or Ex Boyfriend insane ?"

    It's your usage of that word in relation to those two as suspects that I find questionable.

    Earl hiding under clothes I call suspicious. So you think after that occurrence it would be insane to investigate a wee bit further ?

    I agree on the phone calls.

    Maybe this is just a semantics misunderstanding between us, but I think you associating the word insane to investigating a bit further with Chuck, Earl, ExBoyfriend, and even Tadych, is a bit too strong.


    That's all. I think at the base level, we agree likely 100%
     
  18. diesel

    diesel New Member

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    The blood stored in a vial (in any case not just this one), is it recorded by LE as to how much was drawn into the vial? As in so many ml?
     
  19. norest4thewicked

    norest4thewicked Karma is a beautiful thing ~

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    I use the word "people" in general. I've explained before that I'm on different forums, just speaking on what others are saying. Or did I miss what you were asking?

    If it's the blood, the blood was tested and shown to have no preservative in it, therefore, the blood in the vehicle was NOT the old blood in the vial. How else did it get there except from SA's bleeding, deep cut on his finger?
     
  20. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    http://thefederalist.com/2016/01/06/making-a-murderer-subject-steven-avery-is-guilty-as-hell/

    " Avery then called Halbach’s cell phone three times the day she died, twice using *67 to obscure his identity."

    I am looking for a better source but I heard it on two shows.
    He called her using *67 before he dialed so it would not show that it came from him. Then when he called her phone after he murdered her ( in my opinion) He did not use the blocking feature and left a message about why she did not show up.

    He is making an alibi at the time of the murder and that says more to me than a lot of other things.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/things-steven-avery-making-murderer/story?id=36090236
    "Avery called her job to request that she come to his house and that he called Halbach's cell phone three times, twice using the a feature to hide who was calling. "
     
  21. MissKJN

    MissKJN New Member

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    The author of the OnMilwaukee piece has done a whole series and they are all opinion pieces either in favor of or siding with the prosecution and LE side whether she means to be overt about it or not. After then reading about her personal involvement with LE I find it hard to read any of her articles without thinking she is biased and feels some need to "please" the right people by putting these articles out. I guess you might enjoy the articles as feature writing, but not true investigative reporting.
     
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