New Zealand - Christchurch Mosque shooting, dead & injured reported, 15 March 2019

[RANCH]

He did not say he did not want to get married, he said it was too hard. Was the reason you did not want to get married was because it was too hard??

You could say that.

Saying that it's too hard to get married does not mean someone is possibly an incel. JMO

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Fortunately, NZ is not a dictatorship and there will be a healthy debate regarding how to move forward from this national tragedy.

I sincerely hope so since the media seems to indicate it will be unilateral. The gov't will make the decision, not the people.

 

[Judith Sleuth]

He’s a racist white nationalist who preaches his belief in the unfounded conspiracy of white genocide.

He has also proven as much to us with his own words, deeds and screeds that he’s a far-right ideological extremist.

The evidence is abundantly clear, and, to my understanding of what’s been reported, even law enforcement confirms as much.

In my opinion, whether or not he means what he says or whether or not he’s lying about his own stated motives is speculation that disregards valid and valuable evidence proving otherwise.

And we’re here to discuss the evidence, imo.

I see distinct parallels between the Belgians who massacred people at the Bataclan in Paris 2015 and the Australian who massacred people at the mosque in Christchurch. In each case the shooter has an idea and a belief that murder is the best way to communicate that idea. The responsibility for the massacres rests solely with the disturbed mind of the shooter and not the government, or any other person or organization.

Tarrant is neither a nazi nor a racist. He targeted people who hold spiritual ideas for no reason other than the ideas are different from what he believes. He's a crazy stupid person who lacks the ability to accept differences between beliefs or to communicate in socially normal ways.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

He did not say he did not want to get married, he said it was too hard. Was the reason you did not want to get married was because it was too hard??

Marriage is difficult because you have to compromise on everything. Many people refuse to marry because they don't want to compromise and many marriages end due to not wanting to compromise.

 

[human]

There is a problem with the article, "White Nationalism" is not synonymous with "White Supremacy". Nor are "White Nationalists" psychopathic killers.

White Nationalists are not a "terrorist group or organization" any more than Black Lives Matter.

Hitler was a Nationalist

 

[glamourkitty1922]

He’s a racist white nationalist who preaches his belief in the unfounded conspiracy of white genocide.

He has also proven as much to us with his own words, deeds and screeds that he’s a far-right ideological extremist.

The evidence is abundantly clear, and, to my understanding of what’s been reported, even law enforcement confirms as much.

In my opinion, whether or not he means what he says or whether or not he’s lying about his own stated motives is speculation that disregards valid and valuable evidence proving otherwise.

And we’re here to discuss the evidence, imo.

It seems to me that he killed because he wanted to kill and he filmed it because he wanted to be famous and he wrote a manifesto because he wanted to troll the world. The entire blame falls on the killer, nobody else.

 

[Judith Sleuth]

I sincerely hope so since the media seems to indicate it will be unilateral. The gov't will make the decision, not the people.

Imagine a government that supports and acts on the will of the people, that acts quickly to properly represent and protect them. ... Especially in the unilateral goal to prevent another tragedy like this one.

Sounds pert-near utopian to me.

 

[RANCH]

Marriage is difficult because you have to compromise on everything. Many people refuse to marry because they don't want to compromise and many marriages end due to not wanting to compromise.

Well said. Most of the single women that I've met had totally opposite views on things that I find extremely important.

Either I would have to change, or I would have to try and change them. Neither is acceptable to me. JMO

 

[otto]

He’s a racist white nationalist who preaches his belief in the unfounded conspiracy of white genocide.

He has also proven as much to us with his own words, deeds and screeds that he’s a far-right ideological extremist.

The evidence is abundantly clear, and, to my understanding of what’s been reported, even law enforcement confirms as much.

In my opinion, whether or not he means what he says or whether or not he’s lying about his own stated motives is speculation that disregards valid and valuable evidence proving otherwise.

And we’re here to discuss the evidence, imo.

Quite true. Evidence is that this lunatic massacred people in a mosque, which strongly suggests that he targeted people of a specific religious belief because of their religious belief and for no other reason.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Hitler was a Nationalist

Yes, he believed Germany was superior to all other nations and deserved to rule over everyone. He did seem to like the Japanese though. Of course, Tojo was a Nationalist as well. He believed Japan was to all other nations and deserved to rule over everyone. Nationalism can lead a country to make a "shining city on the hill" with freedom for everyone or make a totalitarian cesspool with murder and restricted rights.

 

[Judith Sleuth]

I agree with you, kitty. This isn’t either/or.

Both our statements can be — and are — accurate. They don’t contradict each other.

He’s a racist white nationalist who preaches his belief in the unfounded conspiracy of white genocide.

He has also proven as much to us with his own words, deeds and screeds that he’s a far-right ideological extremist.

The evidence is abundantly clear, and, to my understanding of what’s been reported, even law enforcement confirms as much.

In my opinion, whether or not he means what he says or whether or not he’s lying about his own stated motives is speculation that disregards valid and valuable evidence proving otherwise.

And we’re here to discuss the evidence, imo.

It seems to me that he killed because he wanted to kill and he filmed it because he wanted to be famous and he wrote a manifesto because he wanted to troll the world. The entire blame falls on the killer, nobody else.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

There are countries that hold regular national referendums on very specific issues that all citizens (even those abroad) get to vote on. The US is not one of those countries. Decisions are made by elected and appointed officials for the millions all the time, with very minimal input. As an American, it would not be fair of me to judge NZ by standards that we don't even have here. Best to all.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Imagine a government that supports and acts on the will of the people, that acts quickly to properly represent and protect them. ... Especially in the unilateral goal to prevent another tragedy like this one.

Sounds pert-near utopian to me.

Even if your rights and freedoms are restricted when you did nothing to deserve it? Sounds like pert-near Hell to me.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I agree with you, kitty. This isn’t either/or.

Both our statements can be — and are — accurate. They don’t contradict each other.

I agree. At the end of the day, a killer kills because they want to kill.

 

[human]

IMO, saying "getting married was too hard" is something that an incel might say. They find it hard to find a woman who will be with them

Yes. I still stand by rejecting by women will be a big issue with him as it was with several mass killers.

The women in the countries he visited are often very subservient. They have to be or they can ve killed.

I hypothesize he went there to get a woman.

There are men who have “mail order brides” specifically from countries where women are more subserviant

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Yes. I still stand by rejecting by women will be a big issue with him as it was with several mass killers.

The women in the countries he visited are often very subservient. They have to be or they can ve killed.

I hypothesize he went there to get a woman.

There are men who have “mail order brides” specifically from countries where women are more subserviant

Didn't there used to be magazines where men could "purchase" women for marriage?

 

[human]

Wow so this thread has become a group of people criticising the NZ government about how controlling they are. And a discussion on gun control ‘debate’ framed from an entirely US perspective which isn’t relevant to how we live over here.


In my opinion a whole new context and reality around this terrorist incident has been created by the users in this group, one that is just so inaccurate. It shows how misinformation can be spread quickly and easily.

I wish I had the time or inclination to spend on educating everyone on what a free, inclusive and HAPPY nation NZ is, but I see that is probably a fruitless exercise when people have a clear agenda already set in their minds.

So goodbye everyone, I’ll go elsewhere to discuss the case and honour the victims.

Yes, people who do not live there or do not even know anyone from NZ are determining a lot, aren’t they.

I have really enjoyed ( although that is a bad word for this situation) your comments.

I know New Zealand to be so advanced in so many ways. NZ should be a model for nations to look at and learn.

Environmental, including the Maori and government, healthcare. An amazing country. You are lucky

 

[zencompass]

"Dozens of psychologists and counsellors have volunteered to provide free counselling following a terror attack on two mosques in Christchurch."

"The Canterbury Charity Hospital, on Harewood Rd, Bishopdale, will offer free counselling from this week. People do not need a doctor's referral, they just have to make an appointment with the hospital. The same service was offered after the devastating February 2011 earthquake, which killed 185 people."


Canterbury Charity Hospital offers free counselling following Christchurch terror attack

 

[human]

My point is that change almost always ends with less power to the people and more power to the gov't. Change is coming and we know it won't be a weaker gov't/stronger population.

Depends. I left the US and now live in a country with no guns ( regulated. Can have for target practice and hunting but kept at the police department).

I can drive without worrying about road rage. I can walk without getting shot. Etc. Freedom freedom freedom.

 

[Judith Sleuth]

Yes, I agree, kitty, about the downward spiral of white nationalism.

It’s very, very well documented throughout history that Hitler believed Aryans were a “master race,” subjugating all others. He embarked on a violent, hostile campaign to exterminate minority, ethnic and handicapped populations. His unchecked aggression led to a world war.

He espoused extremist, far right-wing Nazi ideology. It also closely resembles and deeply informs the racist “white genocide” conspiracy theories and other extremist ideological beliefs of the NZ shooter.

Evidence shows that the NZ shooter’s extremist ideology is a kissing cousin to Hitler’s. They’re bedfellows.

“White Nordic people topped the racial hierarchy; Slavs, Blacks, and Arabs were lower, and Jews, who were believed to be an existential threat to the ‘Aryan Master race,’ were at the very bottom.”

Origins of Neo-Nazi and White Supremacist Terms and Symbols: A Glossary

New Zealand shooting: Alleged gunman a white nationalist, according to manifesto

The Endgame of White Supremacy Is Always Death

Yes, he believed Germany was superior to all other nations and deserved to rule over everyone. He did seem to like the Japanese though. Of course, Tojo was a Nationalist as well. He believed Japan was to all other nations and deserved to rule over everyone. Nationalism can lead a country to make a "shining city on the hill" with freedom for everyone or make a totalitarian cesspool with murder and restricted rights.