New Zealand - Christchurch Mosque shooting, dead & injured reported, 15 March 2019

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cobalt sky

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People surrender weapons to the NZ police all the time. There is an official process via which you can do this.

One common reason to do so is where the license holder dies, or no longer is active (e.g. age)

These kind of weapons cannot be passed to someone else unless they hold the required license and have the security storage required by the police and it has been vetted.

So either you sell the gun through a dealer, or more likely get rid of it.

Ok thank you, it sounded as though she was asking people who currently own guns and are active with them to turn them in because of impending changes to the gun laws. That still isn't clear to me.
 

mrjitty

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Ok thank you, it sounded as though she was asking people who currently own guns and are active with them to turn them in because of impending changes to the gun laws. That still isn't clear to me.

We don't know what Jacinda has in mind.

Many of these gun collections are very valuable.

I suspect there will be grandfathering. You can't expect people to turn over 5 and 6 figure gun collections without compensation.
 

Judith Sleuth

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If I were LE I would think the ones volunteering to turn them in has something to hide at home.


ETA That is what she says. I have not seen or heard who has done this.

You know... if billy bob turned his in maybe we should too. Make ppl feel good.

Here is a little more info. It reads to me like folks who aren’t interested in keeping their semi-auto rifles are mainly the ones who are voluntarily giving up those firearms. I’m guessing they’re still interested in keeping their other firearms. Makes some sense, I guess.

After New Zealand attack, gun owners are voluntarily handing over their weapons

Christchurch mosque attacks: Kiwis start voluntarily handing in semi-automatic weapons

Edited to add this quote from one of the above story links.

"Until today, I was one of the New Zealanders who owned a semiautomatic rifle," one gun owner, farmer John Hart, wrote on Twitter. "On the farm they are a useful tool in some circumstances, but my convenience doesn't outweigh the risk of misuse.”

(It includes an image of the form he filled out, marking the weapon for destruction so it’s permanently removed from circulation.)
 
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zencompass

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Hmmm I'm not understanding how the different charges would prevent him from grandstanding, can someone please explain, maybe @mrjitty ?

Terrorist charges would allow him to talk about details in his manifesto as well to expand on all of his "reasons" for what he did.

In additon, by acting as his own lawyer, he would have a "platform" to "speak" to certain individuals who agree with the hate and reasoning in the manifesto. It's horrifying to even think of.

I certainly agree with Mr. Burns in that the result of a prolonged terrorist trial would cause tremendous additional grief to the loved ones who have lost family members.



In the article in my post you refer to, here are the statements from Ross Burns:


"He said people like Tarrant wanted a platform and so "if he's denied a platform, he's failed in his objective."

"And there's less scope to use a platform to espouse his ideological reasons."

"He said terrorism charges would likely prolong the trial."


"But "to minimise the impact on victims, straight murder is easier to prove," Burns added."

"You've got 50 people killed and probably ten times that number directly affected so it will be a long trial and will be unduly traumatic for everyone."

First article I posted:
Why mosque killer could end up never answering terror charges


Another article:
https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/using-terror-laws-against-nz-gunman-could-allow-him-to-grandstand-says-former-prosecutor-20190318-p5157u.html
 
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BayouBelle_LA

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VICTIMS OF THE NEW ZEALAND MOSQUE MASSACRES
As of 2am AEDT Monday

Mucad Ibrahim, 3

Abdullahi Dirie, 4

Sayyad Milne, 14

Khaled Mustafa, 45, and son Hamza, 16

Naeem Rashid and his son Talha, 21

Tariq Omar, 24

Ozair Kadir, 24

Syed Areeb Ahmed, 26

Ansi Alibava, 25

Ramiz Vora, 28

Farhaj Ahsan, 30

Mojammel Hoq, 30

Atta Elayyan, 33

Hussein Al-Umari, 36

Mohammed Omar Faruk, 36

Junaid Ismail, 36

Osama Adnan Abu Kwik, 37

Zeehan Raza, 38

Kamel Darwish, 39

Dr Haroon Mahmood, 40

Husne Ara Parvin, 42

Syed Jahandad Ali, 43

Mohammad Imran Kahn, 47

Mathullah Safi, 55

Amjad Hamid, 57

Lilik Abdul Hamid, 58

Arifbhai Mohamedali Vora, 58

Ghulam Hussain, in his 60s

Karam Bibi, in her 60s

Musa Vali Suleman Patel, 60

Abdelfattah Qasem, 60

Ashraf Ali, 61

Mohsin Al-Harbi, 63

Linda Armstrong, 65

Maheboob Khokhar, 65

Muhammed Abdusi Samad, 66

Ali Elmadani, 66

Mounir Soliman, 68

Ahmad Gamaluddin Abdel Ghani, 68

Hussein Moustafa, 70

Abdukadir Elmi, 70

Haji-Daoud Nabi, 71

Still Missing:

Zakaria Bhuiyan


Brenton Tarrant's mother is seen for the first time since Christchurch massacre | Daily Mail Online



 

otto

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I think we can pretty much guarantee this will be just another internet show to entertain his online buddies. I gather New Zealand gives him the right to represent himself in court. I gather New Zealsnd doesn't require a defense lawyer when trying someone. Self-representation in court a growing trend That's disturbing.

I'm surprised that terrorists like Tarrant or today's tram shooter in Utrecht think their actions will impress anyone. They enter a closed space with violent weapons and shoot people who have no where to run. It's nothing more than shooting fish in a barrel. They're mama's boys who are terrified of a fair fight.
 

floridagrrl

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Last night I was reading old articles about Raleigh, NC. I graduated high school there xx years ago lol, but quickly moved away after. I loved that city so sometimes I like to just look at old pics of the city to reminisce. (Just giving some background on how I came across the forthcoming) I came across this article about one of the local malls there that I actually worked at as a teenager in the late 80s. They had a “sniper shooting” at this mall (what would now be entitled “mass shooting”) in 1972. I either do not remember ever hearing of this history or because at the time these things just didn’t happen on the regular that it wasn’t something my teenager brain imprinted to remember.


Gunman in the parking lot with a semi-automatic rifle he had just purchased 2hours before, just starting shooting at random people in front of the mall entrance. He did shoot himself once he heard police sirens. But it was 6 minutes of hell and he did kill children.

Within this piece the writers of the time where trying to find the “why”

Why would someone do this??? (This was a local man that many people did know)


So they asked local psychiatrists what their thoughts about this where. To me, this, from 1972 mind you, was great simplistic insight to me.


“On the day of the shooting, the Raleigh Times asked several local psychiatrists for their opinions on "what would cause a person to methodically shoot [people] he doesn't know and then kill himself."

One answered that someone with a "shaky emotional makeup" might find frustrations hard to handle. And those frustrations might be real obstacles, or something he felt entitled to, but wasn't getting. Another psychiatrist said "There's just something in a person with a shaky emotional background that sometimes reaches the critical point." He added, "What it is, we don't know."

A third noted that a person's intellect was at the mercy of their emotions. "When a person enters into a murderous mood, he can very well arrange things, assign ingenuity to his psychotic mood," he said. "He can be very cunning, his intellect serves his ugly mood. He knows what he is doing but he isn't able to refrain from the behavior," the psychiatrist added. "He also knows the difference between right and wrong but he offers explanations to put himself outside what is right or wrong," he added.

The third psychiatrist added that someone in a "murderous rage" is often "calm and methodical" in their behavior.


He wanted to kill people and made “excuses” to do so to himself...like so many before him.

...and now they can shout these “excuses” to the world as the medium is there now for these madmen; right at their fingertips


Like so many not before him


(Link to the history article since I’m quoting North Hills Sniper Attack - Memorial Day, 1972
 

glamourkitty1922

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I'm surprised that terrorists like Tarrant or today's tram shooter in Utrecht think their actions will impress anyone. They enter a closed space with violent weapons and shoot people who have no where to run. It's nothing more than shooting fish in a barrel. They're mama's boys who are terrified of a fair fight.
Think of the losers they're trying to impress. People just like them. Personally I find them cowardly and repulsive. Utrecht is another horror. Killing people on a train? The day after killing people worshipping? I don't think I want to look at the news or Websleuths tomorrow. It's just too much.
 

glamourkitty1922

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An 18-year-old posted something stupid on the internet. Shocking!

NZ would actually lock an 18-year-old up for 14 years over something like this? That is disturbing imo. I think a few months to scare the kid would be sufficient. But even that seems a little overboard unless he made direct threats towards someone.
This is what happens in countries that are not very free. You're at the mercy of a judge who may be fair minded and might be hateful. Censorship is a very bad thing.
 

glamourkitty1922

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It seems worth repeating

Schools and parents are trying to protect students and encourage responsible use of social media in the context of a horrific attack.

It is obviously hard for parents and schools to do that if the CHC Press and Stuff and the Herald and TVNZ were to post the manifesto and broadcast the murder video

This is but one example of why local media are not carrying this stuff and FB etc are deleting the content.

I was in CHC on friday and personally I did not want my young daughters watching the video and reading the manifesto via Whatsapp etc

Instead I explained to them carefully what had happened.

We even had to hide the front page of the Christchurch press from them on saturday because I did not want them to be terrified.

Maybe posters need to consider practical issues effecting the people of Christchurch right now and realise these things are more important than your god given right to read terrorist propaganda in your local newspaper
I think the right to be informed and the right to make your own decisions is of upmost importance. I find government censorship to be repulsive and I feel sorry for people living under such censorship. But, that's just my opinion.
 

glamourkitty1922

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It's high time they were subject to the same regulations as other NZ media.
If you subject social media to regulations, that includes Websleuths. We're in a social media group here. I wonder how it would work since there are hundreds of countries with different laws? Probably just people in certain countries cannot read and participate. I wonder how Facebook and Youtube would deal with it? Probably by just not offering their platform in certain countries.
 
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opalonyx

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This is what happens in countries that are not very free. You're at the mercy of a judge who may be fair minded and might be hateful. Censorship is a very bad thing.
Honestly it made me wish they caught onto the NZ terrorist's online postings sooner and put him in prison before this tragedy occured. Usually when people are attracted to this kind of content and find humor in it, its indicative of a dangerous person. Just IMO.
 

sunnynz

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2018 World Press Freedom Index | RSF

NZ is ranked 8th in the world, US 45th, for freedom of press. This takes into account everything from government control to big business control over what is portrayed and reported in media.

NZ has a press which is largely free to do as they please, except when the government is required to step in, like to stop the spread of a terrorist’s manifesto. A one off incident that is unprecedented and necessary.
 

glamourkitty1922

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2018 World Press Freedom Index | RSF

NZ is ranked 8th in the world, US 45th, for freedom of press. This takes into account everything from government control to big business control over what is portrayed and reported in media.

NZ has a press which is largely free to do as they please, except when the government is required to step in, like to stop the spread of a terrorist’s manifesto. A one off incident that is unprecedented and necessary.
In other words, they don't have a free press because the gov't can censor them unlike in a country with Freedom of the Press. I prefer a freer country.
 

Elley Mae

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Honestly it made me wish they caught onto the NZ terrorist's online postings sooner and put him in prison before this tragedy occured. Usually when people are attracted to this kind of content and find humor in it, its indicative of a dangerous person. Just IMO.


What about his postings. And what about all the traveling he did to what appears to be third world countries. He’s an australian living in new zealand for 2 years and no one thought that odd.
In hindsight seems the red flags were ignored.

I can’t imagine having a neighbor doing this for years and not being suspicious.

Dang there’s a neighbor here that works for a gov agency and when he leaves, bags packed for flight we read the paper and with in a matter of days something ‘big’ in the world happened. We see it coming. I’m sure he was only piece of the operation that went down. But as neighbors paying attention we could easily predict something was about to happen, and it did.
Some folks thought I had an inside scoop, no I just pay attention.
 
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