New Zealand - Christchurch Mosque shooting, dead & injured reported, 15 March 2019

Discussion in 'Rampage Killings and Terrorist Attacks' started by north_west, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    The only issue with the Owens woman is that when she learned that her name was mentioned in a ridiculous statement from a mass murderer, she replied with LOL. She should have focused on the victims rather than herself.
     
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  2. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    I don't think his ramblings - his documentation - deserve any attention. He murdered praying people in a religious building. The victims are primarily Caucasian. He's obviously a very stupid man if he thinks that murdering Caucasians furthers his incoherent 74 page ramblings.
     
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  3. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    We heard that he murdered someone prior to killing the praying people, and he did murder a woman who was lying on the street asking for help. Those two murders can very likely be separated from the massacre. He also shot someone through his car window as he was driving away. That's perhaps a 3rd non-massacre murder.
     
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  4. glamourkitty1922

    glamourkitty1922 Well-Known Member

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    Personally I would think the rate would be even higher. Humans are social animals, we're hard-wired to act within social boundaries.
     
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  5. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    Though he means well, Ben-Ghiat appears to be confusing fascism for nazism.

    Fascism is centered around the idea that a single national culture / national identity needs to be promoted in a society. Though the one national culture can very closely linked to a "race", that race does not need to be "white".

    For example, neither of the two main original fascists (Mussollini(sp) and Franco) were dogmatically racist. This does not mean they were hugely tolerant, just that they were not racists. Likewise fascist like regimes have periodically popped up in Lebanon (Phalangist), Syria (Assad), Egypt (Nasser), Kenya (Jomoh Kenyatta(sp) ), and Zimbabwe (Mugabe).

    All of the above regimes, in addition to some fascist friendly Greek rulers, featured alot of National Identity hype, ideas of only one national culture, the concept of a strong leader, and the suppression of other forms of cultural identity. For some, the promoted culture was European. For others, it was Middle Eastern, and for still others the promoted culture / identity was African.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  6. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    Most of those are Aryan.

    And the African ones are not fascist
     
  7. glamourkitty1922

    glamourkitty1922 Well-Known Member

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    That just sounds so repressive.
     
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  8. glamourkitty1922

    glamourkitty1922 Well-Known Member

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    It's just that it's such a violation of free speech, however, New Zealand doesn't have such rights and freedoms. Everything can be restricted by the gov't, even the press.
     
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  9. glamourkitty1922

    glamourkitty1922 Well-Known Member

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    The original post was someone wanting to know why he would be allowed to defend himself. I can see someone defending themselves so that the wife and kids don't have to struggle to pay back the costs.
     
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  10. Woodland

    Woodland Well-Known Member

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    New Zealanders have represented their country very well here imo - others are representing their country as well. Looking forward to your posts at time of trial.
     
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  11. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    "Aryans" dont exist.

    As for the African leaders not being fascist, here is some information about Jomo Kenyata:
    Jomo Kenyatta - Wikipedia

    You will see that he referred to himself as "The Father of the Country" (strong leader hype). Expelled whites and Indians from Kenya (one national culture / identity), and had a romanticized view of Kenya's pre colonial past (historical greatness hype), and was also "dictatorial" and "authoritarian".

    Sure, he dabbled in Communism and even studied in the USSR. But.... politics is really circular- not linear left / center/ right. The line between "socialist" and "fascist" can get very blurry. In short, Kenyatta was a fascist. The fact that he was African does not change that. Ditto for Mugabe.

    Again, fascism promotes culture and national identity, not race per se. Jomoh Kenyatta expelled whites and Indians from Kenya not because of their race per se, but because of their "foreign" cultural and national identity. Sure, the two things were closely linked, but Kenyatta was not a dogmatic racist.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
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  12. opalonyx

    opalonyx Well-Known Member

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    In the US, either.

    The distribution of a video depicting murders does not fall under free speech in any capacity. There are exceptions to what the press can publish and distribute legally in the US.

    "Exceptions have been made for speech that violates the legal rights of others, or because of compelling governmental interests. Examples of these categories include incitement, true threats, and fighting words."

    United States free speech exceptions - Wikipedia

    Many murder cases involved in discussion on this site have instances of judges sealing certain documents, testimony, evidence or crime scene photos from public consumption. People can also be arrested for leaking files that are part of a police investigation. The public is not legally entitled to access to every form of media, especially if it's of a sensitive nature. An example might be the crime scene photos of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.
     
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  13. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know. I found lots of imfo on Aryan .
     
  14. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

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    At this time the accused has no access to television, radio or newspapers while being held in segregation and has no approved visitors.

    He has been moved to the country's only specialist maximum security prison in Auckland and will spend 19 to 20 hours a day in a cell.

    It is not known whether he will be flown back to Christchurch for this next court appearance next month or appear via audio visual link.

    A former prison inmate and current Canterbury University criminologist said the accused would have a large target on his back in prison. He said the majority of the prison population was non-white and the accused would not be able to find any white supremacists to band together with. It was possible he could spend the rest of his life in segregation, and at least the next five to 10 years in "effective" solitary confinement.

    Accused gunman in Christchurch terror attacks denied newspaper, television and radio access
     
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  15. CSIDreamer

    CSIDreamer Well-Known Member

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    I'm assuming the NZ criminal trial structure is the same as the US? He can do a lot of grandstanding drama during his opening and closing statements as well.
     
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  16. cobalt sky

    cobalt sky Well-Known Member

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    RSBM, BBM.

    NZ Population Ethnicity from Wiki:
    In the 2013 census, 74.0% of New Zealand residents identified ethnically as European, and 14.9% as Māori. Other major ethnic groups include Asian(11.8%) and Pacific peoples (7.4%), two-thirds of whom live in the Auckland Region.[3][n 3] The population has become more diverse in recent decades: in 1961, the census reported that the population of New Zealand was 92% European and 7% Māori, with Asian and Pacific minorities sharing the remaining 1%.[253]

    Source for above:
    New Zealand - Wikipedia

    NZ Prison Facts - Ethnicity of Prisoners - 2018: (from pie chart)
    Maori (NZ Indigenous): 50%
    European: 31.3%
    Pacific: 11.6%
    Other (including Asian): 4.4%
    Unknown: 2.7%

    Source for above:

    Corrections Department NZ - Prison facts and statistics - March 2018

    So it looks like he actually would have a good amount of whites to pal around with in prison, though it might depend on how he is classified as to how and who he would be exposed to when it comes to other inmates. I'm not sure what prison culture is like in NZ, if there are ethnic gangs etc that stick together no matter what. My guess is they desperately want to keep him away from the other prisoners especially whites for fear that he will try to radicalize them. IMO.
     
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  17. cobalt sky

    cobalt sky Well-Known Member

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    Bold and red by me.

    But these consequences are being ushered in by her, not the shooter. I 100% respect NZ leaders, and how they run their country is their business. But I really think that there has been somewhat of a knee-jerk reaction, decisions being announced during times of high emotion when all of the facts weren't yet in and the investigation wasn't yet complete. There even were politicians having to walk back on statements made way too early without first taking the time to sort out the situation. There was no need to make gun control such a center topic in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy. The reaction was similar to the Parkland shooting aftermath in Florida here in the US (I know the US is not NZ but please let this one slide as I'm just trying to use for comparison). It's hard for me not to wonder if this tragedy is being used to further political agendas, especially since I have seen it before in my own country. All IMO.

    BTW I'm seeing reports on other social media that New Zealanders are already being blocked from several websites.
     
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  18. sunnynz

    sunnynz Well-Known Member

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    It’s be interesting to see the ethnic breakdown for a maximum security facility like paremoremo where he’ll likely end up. It may be different to the one for overall prison population that you’ve referenced above.
     
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  19. cobalt sky

    cobalt sky Well-Known Member

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    Very few people think of the ethnicities of people such as the victims as Caucasian. Caucasian is almost always used to describe white Europeans, though there are other ethnicities that technically qualify as Caucasians. Not one single person I know would use the word Caucasian to define any of the victims. And I'm confident the shooter knows the true definition of Caucasian.
     
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  20. cobalt sky

    cobalt sky Well-Known Member

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    Yes I agree, that's why I said this: "though it might depend on how he is classified as to how and who he would be exposed to when it comes to other inmates."
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
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