Discussion in 'Trials' started by cybervampira, Dec 4, 2018.
The Crown will focus on this in closing.
In a rape trial this evidence would not be allowed.
The real problem for the defence is there is no credible evidence for his version at trial, if he does not testify
All we have is a second exculpatory version given in police interview, after he already lied to them extensively. Then his second "true" version contained multiple lies as proven by the photos and porn evidence. It simply can't be reconciled that he was sleeping in the shower and not seeing the body in the dark, whilst also watching porn and photographing the body.
So the Crown will argue that his second version should go in the dustbin "in toto" because as a witness he is not credible or reliable. Nothing he says can be believed, unless independently verified.
IMO to address this he really has to testify to explain the discrepancies and make himself available for robust cross examination.
If he does not do so, adverse comment cannot be made BUT it does mean, there is no reliable evidence to support his version.
IMO the prosecution will focus on that, and the Judge may well comment adversely in summing up.
Key elements of his supposed version were not disclosed to police prior to trial.
How on earth the defence intends to handle the porn and photos i have no idea.
Let alone going on a date with a dead body still in his room.
A character witness would have opened the door to a wave of prosecution witnesses talking about what a creep and scam artist he is
Here is another recent report about the case from The New Zealand Herald:
'Did you kill Grace Millane?' - Crown closes case against accused as trial heads into third week
Not always that great getting your own Wikipedia page:
Death of Grace Millane - Wikipedia
This is why I think Hospo is a good shout
He has worked in the industry, including in AKL, and if you have worked at a few places everyone knows, then it won't be checked too closely often.
I mean when I worked in restaurants in the 90s, and you said you worked at X or Y, everyone would know who your bosses were. People come and go in that industry as well.
Is that specific to New Zealand? As I mentioned up thread, it was pivotal to Ched Evans getting a not guilty at retrial here in the UK.
Can't stop thinking about her on this balmy night down here. <modsnip> hurts my heart.
I also just realised how he does indeed walk backwards for a second when he first sees her. Life man. It really is all little moments. Their lives would both be better if he did.
It's sad that someone died in moments of panic but it's also sad to know she won't have another drink with her mates, she won't cook dinner with her family, she won't buy a pair of jeans that fit so <modsnip> right again. And that's what life is. That's what's nice in it.
She could've met a decent dude who was a funny bugger and had the accent and hey, even have given her a better kiss. It's a complete shame the last human she saw was such a mediocre, <modsnip> who was not deserving of her nice face and her kindness to random staff.
I don't really get into these cases too much. This is only the second. But there's something about similar young people that hurts you.
To the people who said they wanted to drink a New Zealand pinot to 'celebrate' this guy being done. Please don't. There is nothing to celebrate. Don't be a vigilante and get excited because a bloke who killed a girl has gone to prison. No winners.
I've got a few Steinlagers with me and I'll remember my own good times travelling.
Thank you. I think it is likely that he worked for City Life in some capacity. I worked for a hotel chain in my teens and would "live" there for weeks at a time. They wouldn't charge for our room if the hotel wasn't full.
Quite. If you will pardon the phrase, sometimes it is best to give someone enough rope to hang themselves.
Grace Millane trial: Murder-accused's date's evidence continues
This is very interesting and I think it's been missed on here. The girl who talked about being restrained but who sent 700 messages said at the end of the day in court, that she actually had a boyfriend at the time.
While it's mostly irrelevant to the crux of the issue – if Grace Millane was murdered – it is very interesting.
While she seems smart and witty enough to play dead, use his 'I'm feeling sick, because I have cancer you know?' as a way to pretend to call an ambulance then leave... it's smart to keep texting the guy a little then taper off, but it's also pretty weird to be as forward and into it as she was.
As vain as it sounds: would love to see what she looks like and I'd love to know her dating background.
Omg I’m so so happy she did that
omg i noticed the funny gait too? i did think why is he walking like that... but i didn't wanna mention it incase it come off wrong. hmm i think you could be onto something.
Yes, upon reading it again I think you're right. In that case, I have no idea what his defence is going to be. The length of time is just too long, and she'd be struggling and fighting against it. I'm intrigued what angle they'll go for.
Is the accused going to be called as a witness, does anyone know? I know in some cases they don't do it, to stop them being cross examined.
I would be shocked if he chooses to testify in his own defense. I can’t picture him being steady and credible on the stand withstanding pointed cross-examination, based upon the way he responded to Det. Settle challenging him in a very calm, dry manner. Taking the stand would be disaster for this defendant.
It was something that Brookie was able to basically get a legal defense out and recorded in the detective interview. A way for the defendant to claim he didn’t intentionally hurt her and apologize to her family on tape without having to do so subject to cross-exam. I haven’t seen many things like that in the US where a criminal attorney is sitting in on a recorded interrogation and manages to get the key to the defense case stated by the client like that and then the prosecution plays it in court.
not that I think the defense will succeed.
No, that's the crucial point, when continued pressure is applied to the neck the person will lose consciousness fairly quickly (in under a minute) and stop struggling. They will become "floppy" as the expert witness put it. If the neck is released at this point they will most likely survive. For death to occur the accused would have to have continued strangling her for minutes after she stopped struggling.
IMO strangulation should always be classified as murder, because why else would you continue choking an unconscious person? There is no way he didn't know she would die from his actions and continued choking her "by accident". IMO
For me his despicable behaviour after she had died, his lies, his past dates, his stupidity, etc, are all irrelevant. Death by choking, strangulation or suffocation is always murder because it takes a long time to kill someone this way. He had 3+ minutes to stop and let her go. He didn't.
Random thought but it was pointed out on here that he appeared to be wearing the exact same clothes on his Tinder date on December 2 as he did on his Tinder date with Grace on December 1.
Given how much stuff he cleaned or disposed of from that night I surmise he wasn’t wearing that when he attacked Grace and caused her to shed blood.
Of course he could have duplicates of his “Tinder date uniform” he would be strange enough for that.
haha yeah i liked how someone referred to it earlier as his 'default date' outfit ahaha. I'm thinking he wouldn't of had any clothes on when he caused her injuries, i think hes telling the truth about it happening during what was at first consensual sex. i mean he certainly didn't have time to wash them before going on that date the next day which is a bit grim anyway really. He did take his bedding and some clothes to get washed at the dry cleaners now i think about it but i'm sure this was a couple days after...
I've been lurking but finally caught up.
Just a little question please. Are witnesses for the defence compelled to attend?
I don't understand why her ex-boyfriend would fly to the other side of the world to defend her killer?
Some of my exes are d!cks but I'm not sure I'd ever defend someone who hurt them
Yes witnesses can be compelled