Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest* #2

Discussion in 'Trials' started by cybervampira, Dec 4, 2018.

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  1. legal.beagle

    legal.beagle Well-Known Member

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    Dr David Fintan Garavan, a forensic pathologist, appears as the defence's next witness via video link.

    He is currently employed in Miami, United States, as a forensic pathologist and is a specialist in the effect of drugs and alcohol on the body.

    He says forensic pathology is contextual, which means when there are competing narratives a forensic pathologist uses context to establish what is the most likely thing to have happened to cause a person's death.

    The jury hears he works for both defence and prosecution teams in court cases.

    Dr Garavan was asked to review the evidence of the Grace Millane case.

    Grace Millane murder trial: Accused won't take the witness stand in defence case
     
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  2. Pepper77

    Pepper77 Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect, the Daily Mail is following the rules this time. They didn't previously, revealing the suspect's name, etc., but they are now. The guy filing the reports for DM now is a Kiwi, reporting on the ground.
     
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  3. legal.beagle

    legal.beagle Well-Known Member

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    Defence lawyer Ian Brookie asks Dr David Fintan Garavan for his opinion on the bruises found on Grace's body during a post mortem examination.

    Under questioning, forensic pathologist Dr Simon Stables told the jury last week those bruises were consistent with a death that could have occurred accidentally during a consensual sexual encounter when one person put their hands around the neck of another.

    Garavan agreed and said there was a biological basis to support that.

    Looking at the bruises on Grace's body, Garavan largely agreed with Stables' evidence.

    However, he said bruises on her left shoulder could have been a "love bite", and he said there was what looked like hemorrhaging in Grace's left eye.

    He said the marks on her arm wouldn't have jumped out as finger marks, as Stables said, but it was possible those marks could have come from someone holding her arms down.

    Grace Millane murder trial: Accused won't take the witness stand in defence case
     
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  4. legal.beagle

    legal.beagle Well-Known Member

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    Forensic pathologist Dr David Fintan Garavan tells defence lawyer Ian Brookie pathological evidence suggested Grace had been involved in a consensual sexual act before she died.

    "I agree with Doctor Stables, there is no evidence to injuries of deeper haemorrhaging," he says.

    When a non-consensual act is taking place and the victim is under attack and are resisting, they struggle, he says.

    “It's that action, the struggle, of the dynamic action which gives rise to the deep structure hemorrhaging of the muscles,” he tells the jury.

    The absence of such deep-structure hemorrhaging suggests there wasn't this sort of struggle.

    There was no DNA under Grace's fingernails and the bruising on her neck was only superficial, he adds.

    Grace Millane murder trial: Accused won't take the witness stand in defence case
     
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  5. Satchie

    Satchie Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I agree that if this guy is acquitted, men around the world will enthusiastically begin murdering their Tindr dates.
    EDITED to clean up
     
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  6. Kikixxxx

    Kikixxxx Well-Known Member

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    I really don’t know. If anything I think they are more likely to argue that as she was drunk it could of effected her tolerance levels or something. Reduced her inhibitions...She thought she could handle it but she couldn’t kind of thing. Ffs I’m starting to worry now. I hope we get justice for grace :(
     
  7. PrimeSuspect

    PrimeSuspect Under the Milky Way

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    The accused never mentioned that he and Grace discussed a 'safe' word or she could tap his shoulder to stop.

    I feel sorry that Grace trusted this creep. She was probably too drunk to talk about safety and he isn't a kind, sensitive bloke who'd care, fatal combination.

    Grace being into bdsm still doesn't explain his actions afterwards. She trusted this guy, he talked about safety in his police interview and I wonder if he did with Grace too, so she would trust him? It's all just words with him but his actions speak louder. Jmo
     
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  8. PrimeSuspect

    PrimeSuspect Under the Milky Way

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    Yes, I agree.
     
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  9. courtkim

    courtkim Well-Known Member

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    I think they've got him on the recklessness. It's such a bugger that the strangulation thing became law only days later. But as someone who has been 'choked' by multiple partners I just don't buy it. My parters have always been very tentative and conscious of how I was reacting. They didn't want to hurt me. He performed the sex act - consensual or not - recklessly. That's just my 2 cents but I admit I don't know the law well.
     
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  10. courtkim

    courtkim Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but he wouldn't would he? She probably used it and he ignored it. If she was experienced she knows to use one. Even if she wasn't experienced it's fairly ubiquitous in media the use of safe words in sex acts.
     
  11. PrimeSuspect

    PrimeSuspect Under the Milky Way

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    Acquitted?!
     
  12. Kikixxxx

    Kikixxxx Well-Known Member

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    Millane's alcohol intake, he continued, could "very well have been a secondary factor in the cause of death".

    The backpacker had several drinks on the night she died, inlcuding shots of tequila and cocktails, which Garavan said was "a significant amount of alcohol to ingest over a short amount of time".

    He likened Millane's alcohol comsumption as an "iceberg that's making its way for the shipping lane".

    He said it was "very likely [it] has became a very important indirect layer in causing death".

    Grace Millane trial: Accused 'playing out his life through Tinder' - defence lawyer

    Don’t even go there ...
     
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  13. Mariposa

    Mariposa Well-Known Member

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    No, most men would never, but I bet it will crop up more and more as a defense in murders of women especially in relationship scenarios. It already is
     
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  14. Mariposa

    Mariposa Well-Known Member

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  15. Satchie

    Satchie Well-Known Member

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    He's pleading Not Guilty, right? And his defence is presenting his case for Not Guilty to the jury. If the jury agrees with his defence, they would declare him Not Guilty. That would mean he was acquitted.

    Is that incorrect in some factual way?
     
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  16. kiwilaura

    kiwilaura Well-Known Member

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    He can’t be acquitted of killing her. He can be found not guilty of murder but guilty of manslaughter. He has admitted he has killed her but is pleading not guilty to the specific charge of murder. He basically can’t be let off a manslaughter charge as he has said he knows he caused her death, he just didn’t mean it.

    I honestly hope I’m wrong but this is how I see the trial ending.

    I suspect they will present a pathologist that will say in not all cases will it be obvious that someone is dying (eg the convulsions) and they will say it’s reasonable that with the lights off and in the heat of the moment, and in his drunken state, he did not realise she had fallen unconscious.

    Add in the fact that she dabbled in risky sex (but we are not victim blaming), I think they’ll create reasonable doubt.

    I will be so happy to be wrong.
     
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  17. Mariposa

    Mariposa Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know if time of death could be estimated with any precision?

    It was a bit before 10pm when they went to his hotel room per CCTV in elevator? Then the next time stamp I recall hearing is his porn etc searches and corpse photography around 130-2am. Was there any phone etc activity times between 10pm-130am ish?
     
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  18. PrimeSuspect

    PrimeSuspect Under the Milky Way

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    I just hope the jury doesn't lose respect for Grace because she had a sexual fetish they find distasteful.

    Grace didn't go back to his room to die. :(
    He needs to be held accountable. He strangled her to death and took photos of her dead body, it didn't faze him until he had to figure out how to get her body out of the room and get away with murder! Jmo
     
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  19. Mariposa

    Mariposa Well-Known Member

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    Prosecution appears to be doing a strong cross of the pathologist::;;


    3:15pm - The pathologist tells the court that it is uncommon to see death from mechanical asphyxiation during sex. He has not come across such a case in his experience, but is aware that it has been reported.

    3:03pm - Dr Garavan says deep muscle injuries aren't necessary for manual strangulation to have occurred.

    Dickey asks if no deep muscle bruising may occur if the person being strangled had their arms pinned down and were controlled by the oppressor. Dr Garavan says that is a "fair comment". No defensive injuries may be found if the person was pinned down.

    2:59pm - Under cross-examination by prosecutor Brian Dickey, Dr Garavan says pressure would need to be applied for a significant amount of time before a person's face goes red and then a haemorrhage occurs.

    A blood nose could eventually occur, but Dr Garavan has never seen that happen. At some point, the individual would also become unconscious.

    He again says this would take minutes, rather than seconds
    2:49pm - After a short break, Dr Garavan tells the court that it would have likely taken minutes of strangulation for Millane to have gone into a "terminal tailspin", as Brookie puts it.

    Grace Millane murder trial: Live updates as defence opens case, calls witnesses
     
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  20. Kikixxxx

    Kikixxxx Well-Known Member

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    I agree I see the trial going this way too... everything the crown have shown he isn’t disputing. Yes it makes him look like a shallow prick who didn’t care about stuffing her dead body in suitcase and dumping it like it’s trash...Or even seemed Bothered that he’d killed her at all ( going on another date the same day etc) but it doesn’t prove he murdered her on purpose. If she had scratched him, and his dna were under her fingernails it would be a different story, but I’ve got to be honest I think the jury will struggle to convict him solely on the evidence. I really hope I’m wrong
     
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