GUILTY NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 #3

Having read the new statements from women that dated this man, I don’t believe any of his defence. Not even the consensual choking. IMO he invited Grace back to his room for drinks and perhaps initiated sex. I don’t think she would have wanted to try choking or BDSM with a stranger from an app. Previous partners say that he displays aggressive behaviour when he’s rejected. I can easily imagine him trying something Grace was uncomfortable with, her resisting and him losing his temper and killing her.

The whole thing is so tragic. Reading her excited tweets before she went travelling is heartbreaking. I’m glad her family have justice with the guilty verdict but it must feel somewhat hollow. It doesn’t bring her back. However, I have no doubt that he would have killed again and women are safer now he’s off the streets.
I agree. I'm appalled actually that the appeal court prevented this evidence being heard, given the risk of his narrative being believed. This quote from the DM -
"She had been strangled during sex" link Tinder messages between Grace Millane and the man who murdered her | Daily Mail Online - is blindly accepting that this part of his account (bbm) is true. It's far more likely, given his history, and no positive relationships reported by the defence, that Grace wanted to leave around midnight and he flew into a rage. I surmise after paying for her drinks he felt entitled.
 
I agree. I'm appalled actually that the appeal court prevented this evidence being heard, given the risk of his narrative being believed. This quote from the DM -
"She had been strangled during sex" link Tinder messages between Grace Millane and the man who murdered her | Daily Mail Online - is blindly accepting that this part of his account (bbm) is true. It's far more likely, given his history, and no positive relationships reported by the defence, that Grace wanted to leave around midnight and he flew into a rage. I surmise after paying for her drinks he felt entitled.
Is there any extra info in that DM article? I'm blocked in NZ
 

"In his CV the killer said he was "successful in building great team culture and motivating a dynamic team to success".

He went on to boast he was "organised and diligent, with excellent written, oral and interpersonal skills"."

"One of the schools where he claimed to have attended in Sydney doesn't even exist, and someone with an MBA would never have applied for this position," said the employer, who spoke to the Herald on the condition of anonymity.

"The CV was just full of lies, and it really just looks like it's been written by someone who's trying to make themselves look way smarter than they really are."

The man also did not give any dates on when he obtained his degrees, which also included a Bachelor of Commerce, majoring in business law.

The Herald understands the murderer did not attend university.

He was educated in the wider Wellington area and worked in bars and doing labouring work before he fell out with his family.

A source said ongoing dishonesty led to him being effectively cut off from his family unless he sought professional help."

What a loser. :rolleyes:
 
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Am I correct in thinking that Auckland time is 13 hours ahead of London?

That article in the NZ Herald has images of the messages. The images show the time stamp on the messages as e.g 23.31 GMT.

GMT is London time,(during UK winter months) isn't the time zone abbreviation for NZ something like NZDT/NZST?

If those time stamps are GMT then it means the messages were exchanged local time NZ in the early afternoon of 1 December 2018, or am I missing something? What do other posters think?


Grace Millane murder: Tinder messages with her killer revealed
 
She does say it's her birthday tomorrow aka Sunday so Saturday afternoon would fit

Yes, exactly this, I was confused when she mentioned her birthday being 'tomorrow' so that's why I took a closer look at the time information. Initially I'd just glanced at it and assumed it was sent on Friday night at 23.33 in NZ.
Odd.
 
As said above she likely would have been with her previous date still then. I reckon the article meant 3pm not 3am and miscalculated

I don't know what time she was with her previous date until, he's the guy who was a defence witness, right? I can't remember what time they met up before going back to his place or what time she left.

The police would have needed correct timings when they were looking at the phone evidence. They could easily work between NZ time and UK time but they definitely needed to know which zone the numbers related to when they started to work on timings.

If the messages were exchanged on Friday night at 23.30 in Auckland I would expect that time stamp to read '23.30. NZDT' or 'NZST '.

If it didn't have the time zone abbreviation attached next to the time, I'd absolutely assume it was local time in NZ but the fact that it specifically states GMT tells me it was in reality Saturday afternoon in Auckland.
 
If those messages were only sent a couple of hours before they met - not unusual for Tinder I know - somehow I find it even more upsetting.
Shows how our lives can just turn so easily. How many times do we wish we could turn back the clock for someone here?
Ignore me, I'm having a hard time today. So many distressing cases lately...
 
I agree. I'm appalled actually that the appeal court prevented this evidence being heard, given the risk of his narrative being believed. This quote from the DM -
"She had been strangled during sex" link Tinder messages between Grace Millane and the man who murdered her | Daily Mail Online - is blindly accepting that this part of his account (bbm) is true. It's far more likely, given his history, and no positive relationships reported by the defence, that Grace wanted to leave around midnight and he flew into a rage. I surmise after paying for her drinks he felt entitled.

Exactly. I think he saw the time he spent with her when they out 'bar crawling' as a kind of personal investment, where once they came back and entered the hotel she became his, he owned her, and earned his power over her to do whatever it was that he wanted.

I think that any rejection at the last minute must have particularly hurt. The disappointment, sexual frustration and the alcohol combined, which led him into a violent frenzy. I suspect it was not the first time a woman pulled out on him at the last minute due to her uncomfortability and realisation that he is a first class clown.

The way Grace's body was callously dumped without dignity, the necro pictures he took, and lack of genuine regret throughout the trial through the truth shows that the encounter with Grace went wrong and he lashed out.

He is definately still furious about it, his refusal to tell the truth and what he did afterwards shows that. In his mind I'm sure he is still blaming Grace for his current predicament. He'll never tell the truth about what really happened in that room. He doesn't know how:- or want to.
 
This article shows the messages between grace and the killer before they met up. There’s no discussion between them about sexual likes/dislikes so this must have only been discussed in person. I believe the killer must have had at least some discussion with grace for him to know what she was into - otherwise it’s too much of a coincidence for him to then use it as his defence. Grace Millane murder: Tinder messages with her killer revealed
Remember that he had access to her phone after he'd killed her. If those apps were on her phone he would have seen them, and that could have given him the idea.
 
I agree. I'm appalled actually that the appeal court prevented this evidence being heard, given the risk of his narrative being believed. This quote from the DM -
"She had been strangled during sex" link Tinder messages between Grace Millane and the man who murdered her | Daily Mail Online - is blindly accepting that this part of his account (bbm) is true. It's far more likely, given his history, and no positive relationships reported by the defence, that Grace wanted to leave around midnight and he flew into a rage. I surmise after paying for her drinks he felt entitled.

Agreed it is annoying - and I guess that is why the High Court allowed it.

But generally the NZ Courts are conservative with this kind of evidence unless there is a clear pattern of behaviour. That is why the woman witness was allowed in - the type of assault fitted with the murder. Also the other witness was a direct witness to the killer after the murder

The other stuff is the sort of thing that is routinely denied.
 
Am I correct in thinking that Auckland time is 13 hours ahead of London?

That article in the NZ Herald has images of the messages. The images show the time stamp on the messages as e.g 23.31 GMT.

GMT is London time,(during UK winter months) isn't the time zone abbreviation for NZ something like NZDT/NZST?

If those time stamps are GMT then it means the messages were exchanged local time NZ in the early afternoon of 1 December 2018, or am I missing something? What do other posters think?


Grace Millane murder: Tinder messages with her killer revealed

I guess Grace's app was still showing GMT - maybe she never updated her phone to local network time?

Or maybe tinder has a separate localisation
 
So glad the creep got convicted. So sick of these men who say choking during sex is SO common and use it as a way to try to get away with murder.

Exactly.

I was reading an interesting but sickening article yesterday. It's the UK Times but the article isn't behind a Paywall as so often with that publication.

The 6th paragraph says that :
"In the past fortnight, murder and assault cases involving nine British women in which this defence was used have made headlines."
Those women did not all die by strangling but it does seem that the 'rough sex' defence is being used more frequently.

Killers go free thanks to ‘Fifty Shades’ defence
 
I guess Grace's app was still showing GMT - maybe she never updated her phone to local network time?

Or maybe tinder has a separate localisation

Yes, so the NZ Herald should have noticed that the times given were in GMT and reported accordingly. Instead the article reads as if they're quoting NZ local time.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time we've seen shoddy reporting though!
 
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I've predicted that this convicted felon will be incarcerated in Auckland Prison after he is sentenced in February 2020, (which conveiniently houses the country's only maximum security wing in the country).

In which case, he'll be sharing company with the likes of multiple murderers Jason Somerville and William Bell. He won't want to be there. Good luck to him in any case, because he's going to need it.
 
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I definitely thought it was weird that she'd be sending messages at 3am, with a 50% chance she was in bed with another guy. If she went to her hostel, you'd assume she'd go to sleep.

The timeline of them matching during the day, he sending her a message (possibly as soon as they matched), and quickly getting into the chat and also quickly arranging the date probably makes a bit more sense.

I get the feeling she was by herself on the Saturday (?) walking around. She also says she 'literally only has Converse' and casual dress. Again, this makes more sense if she's like 'I'm really casually dressed right now.' If she wanted to dress up a bit, I'm sure she would have had something in her bag she could've strung together.

The full transcript wasn't published but there's only a place set, not a time, in the public article.

Also, from memory, hadn't she just touched down in Auckland the week prior (or so) but then immediately gone to the top of the North Island on a tour? Basically what I'm trying to say is this Saturday might have actually been the first or one of the first days she'd had just strolling around in Auckland. Keeping it relaxed, staying just in the CBD, wandering with nowhere to go, maybe doing some shopping... she gets a message, 'yeah, a casual drink'll be cool' and goes for it. Maybe this is why she said no to the Mexican food but yes to the drink – it's way easier to leave a flat date after one drink, than it is with a meal on the way.

Re: the timestamps, I'm imagining she used her UK sim.

Australian, New Zealand sims are absolutely atrocious outside your own country. It costs an arm and a leg to even receive a text message overseas. Whereas I had some leftover data on my UK sim and have been using that here in Australia and it's... perfect. Basically, the roaming data is a lot easier and cheaper. Maybe Tinder logged the information because of where the sim was from – or maybe GMT, I mean it's seen as the kind of 'origin' of time is just a police formality?

Anyway, her phone would have automatically ticked into New Zealand time as soon as she activated her roaming or got onto the Wifi.
 

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