NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00 #2

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by assaf1981, Jul 12, 2008.

  1. AliceInPain

    AliceInPain Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,662
    Likes Received:
    2,588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I know. I'm questioning the statement she had scarlet fever when she died and all victims were very sick.
     
    LookingForClues likes this.
  2. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,603
    Likes Received:
    3,282
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Scarlet fever doesn't linger that long, does it? I never had it.
     
  3. AliceInPain

    AliceInPain Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,662
    Likes Received:
    2,588
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ugh, leaving this thread. Seems like my posts aren't coming through as intended.
     
  4. LeenC

    LeenC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    685
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I wonder how they could determine they were sick as well. You could find scarring in the lungs after severe infection but I doubt much soft tissue remained to be examined. I’m not entirely sure how much information you could gain from examining their bones and teeth. You could tell infection for sure, but I doubt you would be able to tell exactly what infection they suffered from.

    With young children their growth and weight would fall behind if they were often severely ill or malnurished. And if they were malnurished they would obviously be more vulnerable to illnesses.

    Nevertheless, I’d be interested to read more about the pneumonia and them allegedly all being sick when they died. Does anyone have a link to this information?
     
  5. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,603
    Likes Received:
    3,282
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I recall the oldest child being ill, but not the rest. I think her illness was mentioned in the 2015 press conference, possibly somewhere else. I will go looking, I think I need a refresher on the crime scenes.
     
  6. Owutatangledweb

    Owutatangledweb Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,329
    Likes Received:
    3,311
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Don't go away! You're just fine. It takes awhile to get the hang of things around here. We need all the different ideas we can get !!

    Edit. Sorry. Wrong quote posted. My message was for Aliceinpain.
     
  7. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,603
    Likes Received:
    3,282
    Trophy Points:
    113
    @AliceInPain
    Yea, what owut said. Please stick around.
     
  8. ClaireNC

    ClaireNC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,317
    Likes Received:
    8,836
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Please, Don’t leave!

    She didn’t have scarlet fever when she died. She was treated for it in 1976. I think the part about them being sick when they died was one of the press conferences. I’m searching for it, too.

    Anyone else find it odd that they even mention the 1976 illness? Was that the only known time she ever went to a doctor? Or is it just a fact they could use to pinpoint the family’s location at that time?
     
  9. CCJD

    CCJD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    1,611
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Don't leave. I understood you just fine.
    msphilosopher said: "Marie had scarlet fever when she died and all victims were very sick"
    and you were just asking msphilosopher to list a source for that info.
    Then things went a little sideways ... :rolleyes:
     
  10. aThousandYearsWide

    aThousandYearsWide Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,642
    Likes Received:
    1,387
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I recall TR's daughter being anemic and Marie having pneumonia present in her lungs.
     
  11. Suglo

    Suglo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,114
    Likes Received:
    11,484
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Please stay! You’re an asset to the thread. This case isn’t the easiest. So many facts that it’s no wonder we all get confused every once in a while.
     
  12. aThousandYearsWide

    aThousandYearsWide Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,642
    Likes Received:
    1,387
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is off topic to the current discussion but does anyone know if Marie's father is deceased? I know we know Sarah's father died in the early 80's, but where is Marie's father?

    Also @AliceInPain, I understand the frustration in this thread at times. It's a tough case. I have felt this way in instances where my whole post getting discredited because someone else was nitpicking my use of a certain word. It can be maddening! But when this happens we all need to remember we are all here for the same reason- to solve this case :)
     
  13. shebbear

    shebbear Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    18
    If untreated, scarlet fever can progress to rheumatic fever.
     
  14. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,603
    Likes Received:
    3,282
    Trophy Points:
    113
    For possibly over 2 years with treatment, though? Marie was treated for scarlet fever in 1976. That was the context of my post.
     
  15. shebbear

    shebbear Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I'm not an MD, but the info that I found online, including from the Mayo Clinic, states that if treated with antibiotics, scarlet fever is not the serious disease that it once was. It is still a problem in developing countries, as is rheumatic fever.
    I was very ill, as a child, with scarlet fever. One of my aunts had rheumatic fever, in the pre-antibiotic days, and had serious heart damage.
     
  16. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,603
    Likes Received:
    3,282
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thank you for the insight. Sorry about your aunt.
     
    Al Ka and SaguaroSpirit like this.
  17. Earthbound Misfit I

    Earthbound Misfit I Who killed Kimberly Shawn Cheatham???

    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    63
    My dad had rheumatic fever as a young child, he was hospitalized nearly 2 years.

     
    SaguaroSpirit likes this.
  18. ClaireNC

    ClaireNC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,317
    Likes Received:
    8,836
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I’m still trying to track down the source of the information about the children being sick when they died. Listened to the November 17, 2015 press conference and it wasn’t mentioned there.

    Wikipedia mentions it: “Vaughn, was between 5 and 11 years old. She had symptoms of pneumonia, a crooked front tooth and a diastema (space between her top teeth)” and links Marie’s NCMEC poster from 2014 as the source. However, the poster is no longer available since she has been identified. Bear Brook murders - Wikipedia The pneumonia is also mentioned here: Decades-old slayings of woman, 3 girls still baffle N.H. officials - The Boston Globe

    The middle child’s poster is available and says this “She was 2 to 4 years old at the time of her death, placing her birthdate between 1975-1977. She had slightly wavy brown hair. She had a slight overbite that may have been noticeable. An analysis of her bones suggest that she may have had anemia in life but this cannot be confirmed.” Have you seen this child? JANE DOE2000
    upload_2019-6-16_8-48-2.jpeg

    I haven’t found any mentions of Sarah being sick when she was murdered.

    Also found this comment, that is relevant to the discussion:
    “Based on evidence and poor dental care, officials believe the four may not have been visible members of society.
    "If they interacted with people on regular basis and suddenly disappeared you would expect somebody to say something," says Williamson, a forensic scientist.
    And they may not have been in a traditional family setting.
    "I don't think they were regularly in school and went home and had dinner with mom and dad every night," says Williamson.” New images, DNA tests aim to solve New Hampshire murder mystery - CNN
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  19. ClaireNC

    ClaireNC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,317
    Likes Received:
    8,836
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It wasn’t in the Nov. 2015 press conference. I listened to it last night. Here’s the link if anyone is interested: November 17, 2015 Press Conference

    One thing I found interesting in this pc, is that the investigator wouldn’t say the cause of death for the two youngest children. He confirmed blunt force trauma for Marlyse and Maria, but said something like “we know the cause of death for the two youngest, but we aren’t going to disclose that information”.

    I guess at that time LE was withholding certain facts from the public for investigative reasons. Just found it odd, since it had already been widely reported by the media.
     
  20. LeenC

    LeenC Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    685
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Thank you for trying to refind the source!

    I agree, I don’t think they were very visible members of society either. If Marie indeed suffered from Pneumonia at the time of her death, is it possible that maybe she got extremely ill and Marlyse wanted to take her to the hospital and TR wouldn’t allow it because they would have to use their real names and it would blow their cover. Maybe he decided that the entire family was too much trouble and that’s why he killed them?

    Tbh I doubt we’ll ever know the real reason for their deaths. Then again, a serial killer like TR probably doesn’t really need a “reason” to kill.
     

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice