NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00 #3

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by assaf1981, Jul 12, 2008.

  1. Stephen2016

    Stephen2016 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    472
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Where those pictures were taken it's the same as in these pictures ... upload_2021-6-13_8-53-57.png

    upload_2021-6-13_8-54-32.png

    That horse statue is in the pic of the b-party and you can see the cat in the picture with Marie , and Marlys and A guy. I'm not sure who the guy is . I think the birthday picture it's been said is Marie's 7th so that would be 1978 December. Marie was born 1971.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
    Al Ka, renee_ellis, Laughing and 3 others like this.


  2. Stephen2016

    Stephen2016 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    472
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Yes I have a message into the Scanton PD .. they have a facebook page. I figured that also .. But in the article she had been missing for a week . So I kinda thought maybe unlikely that she had been found. Unless it was a parental abduction and had been returned. However also I can't seem to find any information on a Karri Ann Miguel ... At least not so far.
     
  3. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,653
    Likes Received:
    7,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you weren't able to find a follow up at all in newspapers.com?
     
  4. Stephen2016

    Stephen2016 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    196
    Likes Received:
    472
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Nothing from the search that I did... nor anything on Ancestry . But Doesn't mean there isn't anything .. I could of used the wrong search terms. .. Just started poking around.
    Hoping LE will get back to me at least and let me know . That is if they know anything else.
    Gila River Police Department | Facebook
     
    Suglo, folieadeuxnola and windrower like this.
  5. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,653
    Likes Received:
    7,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Here's hoping they still have the case file.
     
    Suglo, Laughing and Stephen2016 like this.
  6. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,653
    Likes Received:
    7,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Without direction or more information, I've come to a stand still in searching for the MC's family, most likely due to my inexperience. However, there are great genealogical records out there for both the Mitchell and Livings family, which helped.
    For those ancestors I was able to research, I haven't found any women who would fit the age range of being her mother who went missing or met an untimely death. I'm at the point where I believe the MC's mother may have survived her encounter with TPR and went on to live out her life without her daughter, for whatever reason.
    I don't know what's going on behind the scenes for this case, but I hope it includes calling female relatives who are still alive who fit the criteria of being her mother, and asking the awkward, tough questions. This might also include reaching out any surviving relatives and asking them those questions instead, if she's passed.
    I know no one wants to believe a mother would abandon or give up her child to TPR, but it is a possibility that's how the MC ended up with him. And then he could have spun a believable story about her disappearance, one convincing enough so her mother never went looking for her or verified the info, which appears to have been the case for Sarah's father.
    There's also a chance we might find the MC's family, even a close relative like a sibling or aunt, and they still might not know who she was. That happened to a news anchor when he went searching for his maternal grandmother. They narrowed it down to 4 sisters, and not one of their surviving relatives even had an inkling one of them had a child and gave it up for adoption.
    I hope I'm wrong about not being able to get her name back, and my meager attempt at research shouldn't be an indicator, but there is that possibility, sadly.
    And I will keep dabbling in this case until we hear she's been ID'd, because her ancestry is fascinating.
     
    Al Ka, stygianowl, PatLaurel and 5 others like this.
  7. Laughing

    Laughing Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,380
    Likes Received:
    35,861
    Trophy Points:
    113
    rsbm

    If the mother happened to be incarcerated, this could happen. She might feel that her child was safe (or safe enough) and that TPR was a better option than foster care?

    I think that if the mother had to travel somewhere briefly -- family funeral for instance -- she would have raised a ruckus about her missing child when she returned & couldn't find them.

    If she was gone for 7 - 10 years, or even 7 - 10 months, maybe not?

    She might not want her family of origin to know the whole story.

    Just a guess!

    I don't remember if Suzanne Sevakis' mother looked for her & Floyd?

    Identified! - OK - Oklahoma City, 'Sharon Marshall' 8UFOK, Apr'90 - Suzanne Sevakis


    (We ought to get together & write novels imho.)

    jmho ymmv lrr
     
  8. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,653
    Likes Received:
    7,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    @Laughing

    A while back, I listed a few possible scenarios as to what might have happened to the MC's mother, including incarceration at the time she went missing, possibly for a long time, and lost track of her. She could still be alive and in prison.

    There are so many scenarios, in addition to a missing person or an untimely demise, that could explain how the MC's mother/family lost track of her.
     
  9. Susikatze

    Susikatze Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    4,275
    Trophy Points:
    93
    TPR is still the father and since MCs mom likely had no idea about TPR multiple identities, she may have just left the child with the father. Especially as he was in a new relationship with a woman with two small kids it might have looked like the most stable setup for MCs mom.
    MC may have been the result of a brief relationship and unwanted and her mom could have had all sorts of problems herself. She may really have thought MC is most safe in TPRs new family.
     
  10. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,653
    Likes Received:
    7,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In 1978, TPR used his real name at Thanksgiving with Marlyse's family, per her sister. He was in NH sometime in 1979 using the name of Robert Evans. I'm thinking there's a good chance the MC's mother knew him as TPR also, and not by any alias. This would have made it difficult to locate him.
    We also don't know if the MC's mother met Marlyse, and her family doesn't recall TPR having a child with him over the holiday. However, you make a good point. Her mother would probably have been amenable for the MC going off with him if he had a girlfriend with kids. It would have given them the appearance of stability and normalcy, a false sense of security.
     
    Al Ka, stygianowl, Springrain and 7 others like this.
  11. Irish_Eyes

    Irish_Eyes Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,044
    Likes Received:
    1,218
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have thought the same, we can't assume she is deceased, but there are ways that would make more sense.

    I'm also seriously thinking that perhaps the MC's mom or grandma is an NPE or something. Someone who won't show up on any trees. Otherwise, it seems like by now somebody would have stood out, whether through DNA or circumstances and we'd already know?
     
    Laughing and UnlicensedPI like this.
  12. Springrain

    Springrain Who was the 1980 Ventura County Jane Doe?

    Messages:
    3,259
    Likes Received:
    6,143
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Can someone clear this up for me? I understand that they're trying to ID everyone in these pics, and might think one of the little girls is MC, but do they have any idea which? I didn't get that from the article, but if they do I'd like to know. My best guess would be the little girl to the left (our right) of Marie in the pic of her blowing out the candles. But I have no idea, and I think MC probably had more white ancestry than that little girl.

    RSBBM

    IMO, that's the most likely and least horrible explanation (in terms of more murder victims - if MC's mom didn't willingly give Terry her daughter and he kidnapped her, she was more than likely murdered by him so he could take her). If she had personal issues (i.e. poverty, addiction, mental health issues, anything, really) and she felt that her parenting skills were hindered by them, she may have thought leaving her daughter with her dad was the best thing, or she could have went to prison and returned to see Terry and her daughter had disappeared, and may have just figured they moved somewhere and were OK. If she didn't willingly give up her daughter she may have met a tragic fate like Marlyse and her daughters. Or, I suppose it could have been a simple custodial kidnapping without murder, but I don't think that fits the situation. But either way, I do think the mother leaving her daughter with Terry would probably have the least terrible outcome for the mother and lead to more opportunity to find her alive.
     
  13. UnlicensedPI

    UnlicensedPI Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    3,640
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I was wondering about a NPE as well. It would explain the seemingly missing maternal line!
     
    aThousandYearsWide likes this.
  14. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    27,377
    Likes Received:
    52,020
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What's an NPE?
     
    Tired Professor likes this.
  15. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,653
    Likes Received:
    7,808
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you know if they've released any more information about the MC's maternal line? I would really love to know if there are any other surnames, ones that I keep seeing over and over, that share a significant relationship with her, too, in addition to Livings & Mitchell.
     
  16. Laughing

    Laughing Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,380
    Likes Received:
    35,861
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Non-paternity event

    The person may not fit into a family tree because they are a half-sib instead of the expected full sib. Using this type of genetic genealogy, the software may consider the subject a cousin instead of a child or sibling.

    Genealogy -- the hobby that confuses the dead, and irritates the living.

    (Wanna know where my ancestors voted in the 1600's? Wanna know where my ancestors were baptized & married & buried? Wanna know what each one did during the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, the Spanish-American War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam? Wanna know which one gave his share of the family fortune to Bob Jones, who then did NOT name a university after him? Wanna know which ones completely disappeared? Yeah, probably not. Good call on your part, I could talk all night.)

    jmho ymmv lrr
     
  17. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    27,377
    Likes Received:
    52,020
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOL thanks for the explanation but I'm still confused. Does that mean that at some point, a maternal ancestor's father was fooling around on the side?
     
  18. Springrain

    Springrain Who was the 1980 Ventura County Jane Doe?

    Messages:
    3,259
    Likes Received:
    6,143
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm totally lost... genealogy stuff goes right over by head.
     
    cvaldez1975, CCJD and carbuff like this.
  19. Laughing

    Laughing Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,380
    Likes Received:
    35,861
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Maybe but more likely -- the expected genetic father isn't. Sometimes Mom enters a marriage with a child, who may be later formally or informally adopted. Sometimes Mom is a rape victim & conceives.

    Sometimes, it's the Mom "fooling around on the side."

    So the person we're all trying to identify has no full sibs and no clear parents.

    Hold on to hope, there may be enough pieces one day!
     
  20. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    27,377
    Likes Received:
    52,020
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ahhh, okay, that's very interesting.

    So like teen mom gives baby up for adoption, then later marries somebody else would also fit?
     
    Laughing likes this.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice