NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00 #3

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by assaf1981, Jul 12, 2008.

  1. onceuponadecember

    onceuponadecember Well-Known Member

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    Although the main discussion is on the genealogy of MC Rasmussen, I think we should focus more on establishing when they died. I believe that with the use of known facts and some basic historical research skills, we can determine a probable death date range. We know the following facts:
    • Disappeared c. November 23, 1978
    • Sarah was 1-3 at death (born 13 December 1977)
    • All four victims died before November 26, 1981
    • Isotopes suggest they had been in New Hampshire for 3 weeks to 2 months prior to their deaths
    • Unidentified MC born c. 1976 and aged 2-4 when killed
    • Likely went to NH within weeks of LC with Marlyse's family
    So what can we conclude with these facts? The group probably died sometime between December 14, 1978 and February 28, 1979, probably closer to the 28 February date IMO.
     


  2. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

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    Isotopes also show Marlyse and her daughters lived in a more northern climate than NH 3-7 months prior to their deaths. To me, this means there's a probability they didn't go immediately or directly from CA to NH, but, instead, stopped somewhere in between, a place fitting these isotope result. Though I was never able to confirm it with the NH AG's office, I suspect that 3-7 month "layover" was in the MC's isotope result area, when she might have ended up with TPR. Adding this to the timeline pushes their estimated TOD further out.
    Plus, there's a chance the Elizabeth who signed for TPR's letter was Marlyse, which would put the TOD into mid-1980 sometime, or later.
    Based on those two pieces of information, I believe they were killed summer of 1980.
     
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  3. Stephen2016

    Stephen2016 Well-Known Member

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    Did they ever say why they were so well preserved in 1985. The police officer 1st on the scene mentioned that he saw a face looking up at him. 5 yrs or so in a barrel like that you would think there would of been more decomposing.
     
  4. onceuponadecember

    onceuponadecember Well-Known Member

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    I see your point, however, I still believe they were killed closer to 1979, but that is the good thing about this forum - we can all collaborate evidence and work it together. :)
     
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  5. onceuponadecember

    onceuponadecember Well-Known Member

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    The only issue I see with them coming in 1980 is that Rasmussen was there in 1978/9 and they certainly would’ve come with him.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
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  6. onceuponadecember

    onceuponadecember Well-Known Member

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    This could be a case of good preservation - it's not uncommon. Joseph Henry Loveless died c. 1916 and was in very good condition when he was found in 1979. Shoot, even in the 70's when they found the skeleton of Mary, Queen of Scots' third husband, James Hepburn, Earl of Bothwell, it was in spectacular condition for being over 390 years old.
     
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  7. onceuponadecember

    onceuponadecember Well-Known Member

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    (Apologies in advance, but whenever someone gets into historical dating, it makes me chatty, considering I am a history/social studies teacher and have done work with historians before :D)
    I thought this through in my timeline of their deaths, and the probable death range is from March to September 1979 - I know most people think they lived together long term, but we can see in his relationships with women that they usually lasted no more than a year or two. Plus, since Marlyse's daughter was no more than 3 and "Anita Moon" (the posthumous nickname for MC Rasmussen, I will refer to MC as her in my future responses), if born c. 1975/6, would be really close to age four in 1979.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  8. Eddie99

    Eddie99 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure how you made that conclusion, about the length of his relationships.

    He was married for several years.
    We have no idea how long he was with the MC mother.
    We have no clue when he killed M.H.
    We have no clue when he killed Denise. We can't even prove he killed her, although I say that is the likley outcome.
    And the only other relationship we know of is the woman in California. Which lasted a few years.
     
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  9. onceuponadecember

    onceuponadecember Well-Known Member

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    Your statement on "we have no clue when he killed MH" is preposterous - we have several factors that narrow down the death period:
    • We know the family left likely in late 1978 or early 1979, as Terry was working in NH in 1979
    • They made a short stop for 3 to 7 months in an unknown state (as suggested in the isotopes)
    • The family was in NH from 3 weeks to 2 months before their deaths (again, as suggested in the isotopes)
    • As Terry left in November 1981, we know they all died sometime between '78 and '81.
    • "Anita Moon" was probably born in 1975 or 1976 according to NCMEC - 2 to 4 years old at death
    With these basic facts, the family most likely died sometime in 1979; early 1980 if stretching it.
     
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  10. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

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    Just curious what you're basing your TOD on. Not saying it's wrong, just curious.


    ETA: Nevermind, I just saw your post to Eddie
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
  11. Eddie99

    Eddie99 Well-Known Member

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    I put about as much faith in isotope testing as I do in psychic mediums. As I sit here I cannot recall a single time that has been even close to being correct.

    Take knoxville Jane doe. They claimed she lived her entire life in on of 13 Eastern Mid Atlantic states. As it looks, she was from California.

    Not to mention - I don't think any of the isotopes from the Allentown 4 suggested they were from the Los Angeles area.
     
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  12. onceuponadecember

    onceuponadecember Well-Known Member

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    I think that isotope data can be used in another way - determining when a person was where. Even if it wasn’t a northern state they were in (between California and NH) it does prove a point that they were evidently somewhere in a time frame. :)
     
  13. ntt1

    ntt1 Well-Known Member

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    The problem when the claims are taken as gospel. They are only based on statistical probabilities datasets, if I'm not mistaken, of which there are varying degrees of uncertainty involved.
     
  14. AliceInPain

    AliceInPain Well-Known Member

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    From Bear Brook Podcast:
    It will work on ancient remains when there was less import/ export, it just doesn't work on later remains.
    "Lyle Stevik"'s isoptope map was all over the place but we know he was from N. California and went up to Washington to kill himself.
    If the people don't drink the local water or eat the local food, and not many do nowadays, you can tell almost nothing from these maps.
    Look at Marie's. We know she was born and spent the majority of her life in California. The isotopes shows only a thin strip in that area.
    It just doesn't work in a time when people go to supermarkets and buy their foods from Asia or Mexico, don't have their own farms, refuse to drink tap water etc...
    It was a method developed for archeological remains, a time long before industrialization, and should stay there. imo.

    islyle.jpg istpr1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
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  15. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

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    Marlyse's isotope results were somewhat correct, as she grew up in CT before heading to CA. Why CA didn't show up more strongly in all 4, considering it appears Marie and Sarah spent the majority of their lives in CA, I find mystifying.
    Can we say for sure if Lyle Stevik wasn't in any of those areas indicated by his isotope results before he died? I don't think we were given much info about him after he was identified, as his family requested their privacy. It's possible he didn't go directly to WA from CA.
    Marcia King's isotopes revealed she had been in a specific area of TX before she died.
    Her results were different than some of the other cases because LE chose to use hair and nails, which doesn't reveal the long term, only the recent past. It's possible her location of origin might have been pinpointed had teeth and bone been used instead. In her case, the specific location was due to very unique isotope properties only found in that area. So, if we could somehow know how she spent the last year of her life, her results might prove accurate.
    But I have to agree, I don't put as much stock in isotope testing as I once did, based on recent ID's who also had isotope testing done & it appears they didn't align with what we learned about the person.
     
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  16. CCJD

    CCJD Well-Known Member

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    rsbm

    Agreed. I stopped giving isotopes any consideration after the Beth Doe/Evelyn Colon identification. Not even close.
     
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  17. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

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    I would like to know if Marcia King was in TX during the year before she died. Based on a scientific article I read about isotopes, the area her results indicated would have only shown up if she were there, they are that unique.
     
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  18. AliceInPain

    AliceInPain Well-Known Member

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    The isotope map shows where whatever she ingested grew, not where she lived. We could never tell if she had been in that area. Only if she consumed things from Texas. That's where this "science" fall apart You just can't establish any facts.
     
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  19. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

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    It also includes water they've ingested, too, not just food. And not just tap water, but also well water.
     
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  20. AliceInPain

    AliceInPain Well-Known Member

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    Most people don't drink tap or local and definitely not well water since the 1940's - that is a verified fact. Where do you get your liquid from? Most kids for decades have and still get their liquids from Coca Cola company. Where do THEY get their raw products from.??
     
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