NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female, 23-33, & 3 Children, under 11, Nov'85 & May'00 #3

[Eddie99]

What attribute are you seeing in the isotope testing, that leads you to belive it can establish a time line?

 

[Alleykins]

What attribute are you seeing in the isotope testing, that leads you to belive it can establish a time line?

This timeline came up during the q & a period of a 2015 press conference, mentioned by the attorney general, but he was cut off by someone asking a question and never got a chance to elaborate or give specific attributes pertaining to it.

 

[onceuponadecember]

Something tells me TPR didn’t stay with them (Marlyse and her family) until 1980 - he definitely had a thing with disposing single moms just a few months after he started a relationship with them.

 

[squish]

Something tells me TPR didn’t stay with them (Marlyse and her family) until 1980 - he definitely had a thing with disposing single moms just a few months after he started a relationship with them.

But it’s known that on Thanksgiving 1978 Marlyse and her daughters left California with Rasmussen and they never saw her family again.

Also, Rasmussen had a girlfriend who he called “Elizabeth” when he lived at Allenstown. Since this is Marlyse’s middle name some believe Elizabeth may be Marlyse.

This Elizabeth signed a letter on behalf of Rasmussen (Bob Evans) in January 1980.

During arrests in February and June 1980, he listed his spouses name as Elizabeth, but in an October 1980 arrest he doesn’t list a spouses name.

If this is accurate, and Elizabeth is Marlyse, they could have been killed between June-October 1980.

A few more disjointed thoughts:

—————————————

When talking to fellow Bear Brook residents, Rasmussen was said to have once’s referred to his pregnant girlfriend in disparaging terms.

This could have been Marlyse, if she had had another pregnancy but lost the baby, Middle Child’s mother if she had another pregnancy, or Denise Beaudin who appears pregnant in a 1981 photograph of her (I don’t know enough about her to know if she was definitely pregnant at that time).

————————————

It’s clear from the long philtrum and upturned nose that MC shared these features with her father. I wonder if it would be worth looking at photos of her half siblings at the same age, to get a more accurate reconstruction?

 

[squish]

Something tells me TPR didn’t stay with them (Marlyse and her family) until 1980 - he definitely had a thing with disposing single moms just a few months after he started a relationship with them.

But it’s known that on Thanksgiving 1978 Marlyse and her daughters left California with Rasmussen and they never saw her family again.

Also, Rasmussen had a girlfriend who he called “Elizabeth” when he lived at Allenstown. Since this is Marlyse’s middle name some believe Elizabeth may be Marlyse.

This Elizabeth signed a letter on behalf of Rasmussen (Bob Evans) in January 1980.

During arrests in February and June 1980, he listed his spouses name as Elizabeth, but in an October 1980 arrest he doesn’t list a spouses name.

If this is accurate, and Elizabeth is Marlyse, they could have been killed between June-October 1980.

A few more disjointed thoughts:

—————————————

When talking to fellow Bear Brook residents, Rasmussen was said to have once’s referred to his pregnant girlfriend in disparaging terms.

This could have been Marlyse, if she had had another pregnancy but lost the baby, Middle Child’s mother if she had another pregnancy, or Denise Beaudin who appears pregnant in a 1981 photograph of her (I don’t know enough about her to know if she was definitely pregnant at that time).

————————————

It’s clear from the long philtrum and upturned nose that MC shared these features with her father. I wonder if it would be worth looking at photos of her half siblings at the same age, to get a more accurate reconstruction?

 

[onceuponadecember]

But it’s known that on Thanksgiving 1978 Marlyse and her daughters left California with Rasmussen and they never saw her family again.

Also, Rasmussen had a girlfriend who he called “Elizabeth” when he lived at Allenstown. Since this is Marlyse’s middle name some believe Elizabeth may be Marlyse.

This Elizabeth signed a letter on behalf of Rasmussen (Bob Evans) in January 1980.

During arrests in February and June 1980, he listed his spouses name as Elizabeth, but in an October 1980 arrest he doesn’t list a spouses name.

If this is accurate, and Elizabeth is Marlyse, they could have been killed between June-October 1980.

A few more disjointed thoughts:

—————————————

When talking to fellow Bear Brook residents, Rasmussen was said to have once’s referred to his pregnant girlfriend in disparaging terms.

This could have been Marlyse, if she had had another pregnancy but lost the baby, Middle Child’s mother if she had another pregnancy, or Denise Beaudin who appears pregnant in a 1981 photograph of her (I don’t know enough about her to know if she was definitely pregnant at that time).

————————————

It’s clear from the long philtrum and upturned nose that MC shared these features with her father. I wonder if it would be worth looking at photos of her half siblings at the same age, to get a more accurate reconstruction?

The issue I see with them being alive until 1980 is that the girls have no surviving school records, Marlyse didn’t contact her family (yes they had a petty argument but I don’t think that a little argument would mean permanent silence) and the MC’s probable age.

 

[squish]

Not normally, but abusive partners usually try to isolate their victims from their families.

I can see him wanting to keep the oldest girl Marie away from school too.

 

[onceuponadecember]

Not normally, but abusive partners usually try to isolate their victims from their families.

I can see him wanting to keep the oldest girl Marie away from school too.

True, but I don’t think that it seems likely that they made it to 1980, especially if we consider the general timeline the isotopes layout (as in time periods, not the locations).

 

[Al Ka]

The issue I see with them being alive until 1980 is that the girls have no surviving school records, Marlyse didn’t contact her family (yes they had a petty argument but I don’t think that a little argument would mean permanent silence) and the MC’s probable age.

Denise's daughter Lisa (Dawn) was with Terry since 1981 till he abandoned her in 1986. I can bet you there were no school records for her anywhere in all those years.

Marlyse might not have contacted her family if she was on the run due to taking Sarah out of state while still in her father's custory. This could have been one of the reasons for either of them suggesting change of their names/aliases and both agreeing to it while moving to other site of states. Marlyse to Elizabeth Evans and Terry to Bob Evans.

While Marlyse might not have been in touch with family in California, she very well could have been in touch with her dad in Connecticut... It was nearby when they settled in NH and they were quite close.

I think we are all interjecting our own perspectives and assumptions on this case, hence different views on what and when could have happened. Fact is... there are still too many missing facts.

Edit to add: Just for refreshing, attaching official timeline of Terry and Marlyse https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2017/documents/20170818-allenstown-manchester-timeline.pdf

 

[onceuponadecember]

Denise's daughter Lisa (Dawn) was with Terry since 1981 till he abandoned her in 1986. I can bet you there were no school records for her anywhere in all those years.

Marlyse might not have contacted her family if she was on the run due to taking Sarah out of state while still in her father's custory. This could have been one of the reasons for either of them suggesting change of their names/aliases and both agreeing to it while moving to other site of states. Marlyse to Elizabeth Evans and Terry to Bob Evans.

While Marlyse might not have been in touch with family in California, she very well could have been in touch with her dad in Connecticut... It was nearby when they settled in NH and they were quite close.

I think we are all interjecting our own perspectives and assumptions on this case, hence different views on what and when could have happened. Fact is... there are still too many missing facts.

Edit to add: Just for refreshing, attaching official timeline of Terry and Marlyse https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2017/documents/20170818-allenstown-manchester-timeline.pdf

I still believe a date of c. 1979 is more probable, but we’ll know once MC has been identified which side is most likely.

 

[Alleykins]

Denise's daughter Lisa (Dawn) was with Terry since 1981 till he abandoned her in 1986. I can bet you there were no school records for her anywhere in all those years.

Marlyse might not have contacted her family if she was on the run due to taking Sarah out of state while still in her father's custory. This could have been one of the reasons for either of them suggesting change of their names/aliases and both agreeing to it while moving to other site of states. Marlyse to Elizabeth Evans and Terry to Bob Evans.

While Marlyse might not have been in touch with family in California, she very well could have been in touch with her dad in Connecticut... It was nearby when they settled in NH and they were quite close.

I think we are all interjecting our own perspectives and assumptions on this case, hence different views on what and when could have happened. Fact is... there are still too many missing facts.

Edit to add: Just for refreshing, attaching official timeline of Terry and Marlyse https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2017/documents/20170818-allenstown-manchester-timeline.pdf

I wonder if investigators went back and checked school records again once they identified Marlyse and her daughters, looking to see if Marie been enrolled in a local school. It might help shore up the timeline if they found she'd attended one of them. Where TPR's daughter's upper age might have made her eligible for attendance, depending on her birthday, they might find her at the same school.

 

[Tired Professor]

I wonder if investigators went back and checked school records again once they identified Marlyse and her daughters, looking to see if Marie been enrolled in a local school. It might help shore up the timeline if they found she'd attended one of them. Where TPR's daughter's upper age might have made her eligible for attendance, depending on her birthday, they might find her at the same school.

That’s a great idea! There is no evidence that the Marie used an alias, so if the records were saved somewhere it seems like might be easy to check. I hope they did save them and they didn’t get tossed somewhere. It reminds me of the time when I volunteered to help in a middle school office years ago and was asked to alphabetize the cumulative student records for a certain grade level. I asked the secretary about this HUGE other pile of school records sitting on top of the file cabinet and she said “those are ones where the student moved and we had no idea where they went so we couldn’t forward them. Some of those date back years”.

 

[Laughing]

That’s a great idea! There is no evidence that the Marie used an alias, so if the records were saved somewhere it seems like might be easy to check. I hope they did save them and they didn’t get tossed somewhere. It reminds me of the time when I volunteered to help in a middle school office years ago and was asked to alphabetize the cumulative student records for a certain grade level. I asked the secretary about this HUGE other pile of school records sitting on top of the file cabinet and she said “those are ones where the student moved and we had no idea where they went so we couldn’t forward them. Some of those date back years”.

How many of those kids have threads here, or deserve one?

Suzanne Sevakis/Sharon Marshall was in the same situation, IIRC. (Hers is the only name I can dredge up right now. Need more coffee.)

But, that's a tough one -- what is a school building or a school district supposed to do?

Perhaps today, there could be some sort of on-line match, but in the days of paper files....

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

Or she could've been home-schooled. What was the situation for homeschooling in the late 70s/early 80s in the US?

 

[Alleykins]

Or she could've been home-schooled. What was the situation for homeschooling in the late 70s/early 80s in the US?

I'm not certain of the popularity of homeschooling during that time period, but, based off of her known lifestyle, if Marlyse was anything like my mum (young, divorced w/kids), she was not the homeschooling type. She would've either had to work and had no choice but to put the 3 kids in school/day care/with a babysitter, or she wanted some respite and would have sent those who could go off to school, off to school. TPR's daughter may or may not have been old enough to attend elementary school. But after they left CA, they may not have been in any one place long enough to enroll in school or a daycare program (for the youngest). I still think it's worth checking into, though.

Does anyone know how the forensic genealogy research is going for the MC?

 

[carbuff]

This is just background information about NH economy and schools around that time.

When we moved to New Hampshire in 1980, a kid had to be 6 by October 1 to start first grade. Five by October 1 for kindergarten. The eldest Carbuff was born in December, but we had been living in New York, where our school district allowed kids who turned five before the new year to start kindergarten, so the school here allowed her to continue. She was quite a bit older than most of the other kids in her classes.

Most school districts in the state didn't have kindergarten, and the ones who did only had half day. So most kids who went to K at all went to private ones. Catholic schools were still large and popular, and not just with the Catholic population. They had a reputation for providing better education.

We did get a letter sent home from school about the child found in 1985 and whether we knew of anybody who had seemed to move away without warning. But at the time they were just looking for one child and what they assumed was her mother. They didn't even have DNA for that for quite a while.

Southern New Hampshire was just at the beginning of the big high-tech boom and there were hundreds of new people moving in. I knew at least two people who were working in the same general area as TR, helping decommission old mill buildings. Both had families with them. One stayed long term. The other moved on before Christmas 1980. (Not TR. Short round French-Canadian guy.) Our babysitter and her husband left with their three kids in the spring of 1981. We came home one afternoon to find them packing the car asking for payment for the full week so they could get gas, heading out before the sheriff could come and repossess all their stuff. They were heading over the border to MA.

I heard a lot of similar stories at the time.

Summary: I think it would have been pretty easy for the kids to have not left much trace in the school records. I'm also quite confident that if there are records, NH LE has them.

 

[Alleykins]

In Maine, we have kindergarten. I can't remember what the age cut off date was when I was a child, but my older sister turned 5 in early September and started school when she was 4. Now a child has to turn 5 before the middle of October. My niece's birthday is in October, and she missed it by only a couple of days. She was mature enough to attend at age 4, almost 5, but her parents decided not to push it, and she started the next year. I don't know if there's wiggle room when a child's birthday is so close. Since my son was born in the spring, it wasn't an issue for us.
Two of my classmates were a year younger than me due to coming from states with different age cutoff dates to start school.

 

[onceuponadecember]

I’m a teacher and here’s my 50 cents:
Here in Utah, children must be in school at age 6 or earlier (that's the law). In regards to the Kindergarten deadline, ours is September 2 (they gotta be at least 5 then). Regardless, it doesn’t seem likely to me that MC went to Kindergarten yet (if we consider age 2-4).

 

[carbuff]

I mean, I am aware that other areas have different rules and times. New Hampshire is probably different now than it was in 1980. Are we suggesting we need to check all these other states, too? Is there a particular connection that I've forgotten about?

 

[Alleykins]

I mean, I am aware that other areas have different rules and times. New Hampshire is probably different now than it was in 1980. Are we suggesting we need to check all these other states, too? Is there a particular connection that I've forgotten about?

I think we were just going over the differences in school cutoffs, comparing the differences of our own experiences.
Based on what we know, I don't think TPR, Marlyse, and the girls were in any one place long enough to put down roots between CA and NH while they were all together. So I don't think looking into school records in other states would be worthwhile. I was just stating it might be worth it to recheck the local elementary records around Manchester, now that we know who three of them are and that at least one of the girls would have been school aged. It might provide some clues.