NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00

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It's a mitochondrial DNA match for two of the children; could be mother, could be another (relatively close, due to the mutation rate) female line relative. They would need nuclear DNA to determine further, and according to NamUS, they weren't able to collect it in the first set of bodies due to the state of the remains.

I thought that finding Nuc DNA was the easiest one to find, unless they were in some sort of chemical that dissolved their bones (Like the bog mummies).
 
I thought that finding Nuc DNA was the easiest one to find, unless they were in some sort of chemical that dissolved their bones (Like the bog mummies).

I think you're thinking of mtDNA here instead. Mitochondrial DNA has many more copies of itself in any given cell, making the possibility of obtaining a sample much more likely. For this case, at least for the mother, NamUS mentions they tried several times to obtain a nuclear DNA profile, with no luck.
 
DNA deteriorates over time. Depending on how the bones are preserved, you might get usable DNA hundreds of years later (as with Richard III) or find nothing after only a few years. They're constantly developing new technologies to multiply DNA from smaller and more deteriorated samples, and every time something new comes out that might help in this case, LE sends it in for testing again. But so far no luck.
 
Although this seems highly solvable, since you'd think that logically someone would realize that almost an entire family is missing, I have to think that some of the time when people go unidentified this long, stranger circumstances than seem logical keep them from being identified. This case brings Jaycee Dugard to mind: If Jaycee had been murdered at some point along with she and Garrido's children, who would miss them? Legally, her children didn't exist - no birth certificates and no formal education. I know situations like that seem far-fetched, but clearly, strange things happen - we just don't know how often. Sometimes people aren't identified for so long because they were simply never reported as missing (think Shannon Aumock), but other times, I think it's because those far-fetched situations actually occur and there are no logical answers.

Of course, this won't help identify this poor mother and her children, but it's something to think about.

I think taramarie may be on to something here. Perhaps we should also look at cases of missing children who would be the approximate age of the adult female at the time?
 
I think taramarie may be on to something here. Perhaps we should also look at cases of missing children who would be the approximate age of the adult female at the time?

I agree, in all likelyhood only the adult woman was ever reported missing, quite possibly before she was an adult - or that none of the people were ever reported missing at all.

There are also the cases of teenagers being classed as runaways and then removed from Missing Persons once they would have turned 18, or LE not accepting missing persons reports because the person in question was thought to have left, or was an adult at the time. Especially back when these people were actually murdered. Some of these cases then resurface years later when relatives look into it, but there must be so many cases for which this never happens. Maybe the person reporting originally has died since, or believes that the person was alive and fine somewhere else.
 
I was looking through NamUs at children who went missing in the states surrounding New Hampshire in the 70s and came across Shelia & Katherine Lyon, 2 sisters from Maryland who went missing in 1975 - I don't believe that they would fit in this case but it got me thinking...
If this is a case of a child/young person being abducted and held, could it be that 2 sisters were taken, one ended up having children, and then something happened to her or she is still being kept, and the adult female is her sibling, the children's aunt and for whatever reason they were killed. That could account for the DNA showing a maternal link between the victims but not necessarily the mother.

P.S. first time poster here, hope I manage to do it right, and hopefully it makes sense... :D
 
I was looking through NamUs at children who went missing in the states surrounding New Hampshire in the 70s and came across Shelia & Katherine Lyon, 2 sisters from Maryland who went missing in 1975 - I don't believe that they would fit in this case but it got me thinking...
If this is a case of a child/young person being abducted and held, could it be that 2 sisters were taken, one ended up having children, and then something happened to her or she is still being kept, and the adult female is her sibling, the children's aunt and for whatever reason they were killed. That could account for the DNA showing a maternal link between the victims but not necessarily the mother.

P.S. first time poster here, hope I manage to do it right, and hopefully it makes sense... :D

Welcome to WS JFinlay86, thanks for the great ideas!
 
I was looking through NamUs at children who went missing in the states surrounding New Hampshire in the 70s and came across Shelia & Katherine Lyon, 2 sisters from Maryland who went missing in 1975 - I don't believe that they would fit in this case but it got me thinking...
If this is a case of a child/young person being abducted and held, could it be that 2 sisters were taken, one ended up having children, and then something happened to her or she is still being kept, and the adult female is her sibling, the children's aunt and for whatever reason they were killed. That could account for the DNA showing a maternal link between the victims but not necessarily the mother.

P.S. first time poster here, hope I manage to do it right, and hopefully it makes sense... :D

Welcome to Websleuths, and it's a great first post :)

The relationship ambiguity is a limitation of what you can determine through mtDNA. MtNDA tells them the three victims are related through the female line but nothing about the precise relationship. They haven't been able to rule out the possibility that the adult woman is the mother of one or more of the children and they also have no idea whether any or all of them have the same father.

The scenario you set out is entirely possible -- but it's equally likely to be a woman, her two kids, and her partner's kid by a previous marriage, or some other straightforward situation.
 
Bumping……this case really gets to me……
 
Here's a little chart that explains how mtDNA is inherited, to make it a bit clearer for anyone

mtdna-inheritance-2007.jpg
 
Another possibility (on the topic of the adult woman having gone missing as a teenager or child) is that she went missing while pregnant? A possibility is:

Pregnant Jane leaves/runs away/is abducted. She gives birth to Child 1, who is mtDNA related to her.

She meets Person X, who already has Child 2, from a previous relation. Child 2, the one with the overbite, does not share mtDNA.

Jane and Person X together have Child 3, who does share mtDNA with Jane and Child 1.

Just a possible scenario? I always forget which child it is that doesn't share mtDNA with the other 3 people, but it's the middle child with the overbite. Or Jane and Child 1 are actually sisters with a pretty big age gap, and Jane went on to have Child 3 with someone. But I'm not aware of any missing cases of two sisters with a large age gap.
 
Could they be from a polygamous family?
 
Another possibility (on the topic of the adult woman having gone missing as a teenager or child) is that she went missing while pregnant? A possibility is:

Pregnant Jane leaves/runs away/is abducted. She gives birth to Child 1, who is mtDNA related to her.

She meets Person X, who already has Child 2, from a previous relation. Child 2, the one with the overbite, does not share mtDNA.

Jane and Person X together have Child 3, who does share mtDNA with Jane and Child 1.

Just a possible scenario? I always forget which child it is that doesn't share mtDNA with the other 3 people, but it's the middle child with the overbite. Or Jane and Child 1 are actually sisters with a pretty big age gap, and Jane went on to have Child 3 with someone. But I'm not aware of any missing cases of two sisters with a large age gap.

Yes, your scenario 1 is the most likely in my view. The second most likely is that child 2 is adopted by the woman and an unknown man whom unfortunately is the first suspect in my view. If we find out who the woman is we will 90% find the killer because he is most likely the husband or boyfriend of her and probably the father of at least one of the children.
 
I thought they already ruled out that the eldest Jane doe was NOT the mother, but was related on the mother's side?
 
I thought they already ruled out that the eldest Jane doe was NOT the mother, but was related on the mother's side?

She shares mtDNA, which means she's related on the maternal side.

One possible relationship is that she's the mother of one or more of the two girls who share mtDNA with her. But it's only one possibility and by no means the only one.

If you look at the excellent chart alllads posted -- she could be any of the black dots on the chart. And so could the other two.
 
Yes, and also (I've seen this mistakenly stated before in blogs, etc. about the case) it has NOT been proved that the middle child (Child 2 with the overbite, 2-4 years) is not biologically related to the other people. It has only been proved that Child 2 is not maternally related to them - Child 2 does not shared mtDNA with the others, but could still be related to them in any other way, or possibly none. mtDNA is passed directly by mothers to their offspring, male and female.

So Child 2 can be a half-sibling sharing a father to the others. Could be a paternal-side cousin.

mtDNA preserves better/is easier to extract than other DNA, so that's why the only DNA evidence known now is the presence or absence of a maternal-side link. I read that they are trying to extract more DNA and get more information, but until this is done or in the event that they can't extract any more DNA, it is impossible to know HOW these people are related beyond a yes/no maternal link.
 
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