Discussion in 'Serial Killers' started by sillybilly, Aug 21, 2017.
OMG! I should not post before I’ve had coffee! Thanks, Owutatangledweb.
Regarding people remembering three children, since Marie wasn't (that we know of yet) enrolled in school there it is assumed they arrived in the summer. Summer brings tourist even though I don't know how big a tourist attraction Manchester was. He could have also played it off as they were just 'visiting' him for the summer. He did something similar with Eunsoon. He claimed she was in Oregon. We also don't know how long they lived with him before the murders. He did reference having a two year old and 6 month old in 1980 around the time of Elizabeth Evans. I am about to go to work so I don't have time to post the timeline for that.
Two days before TR was arrested in Phoenix (April 30th, 1973) a man named Otto died. Apparently this man had no family in town. This same man moved from Prescott to Phoenix in 1969... I wonder if it is the same Otto TR's was working for? Maybe not as an electrician but a handyman...? Just like he did for EJ.
Probably just a coincidence and too much imagination!?
Bringing this one over from thread #2, it was posted by carbuff.
White/native/hispanic young lady, brown hair, found in NM 1996, Died from blunt force trauma 2-10 weeks prior, wrapped in plastic and electrical wire. TR's whereabouts at the time are unknown. His mother's obit from 1995 stated he was in Texas. Of his known and found victims, he didn't sexually assault/rape anyone, did he? There are so many possible victims out there.
CASE NUMBER - 524UFNM
That's a great find. Around that time, TR and his family were into shoes, either selling them or repairing them.
It's probably just a coincidence... but an interesting one!
According to TR's time line, in 1969: " Arizona, Maricopa, Phoenix- TR moves his family; works as an electrician for a man named Otto". This is the same year the Otto i found moved from Prescott to Phoenix.
And then, in 1973: "Arizona, Maricopa, Phoenix – TR moves family; works as an electrician for a man named “Otto” also works in a shoe shop.
April 30th – Arizona, Maricopa, Phoenix – TR is arrested as a Fugitive from Justice, is to hold and individual whom has an outstanding warrant in another state.
The Otto i found, died the 28th of April. The article just mentions his 4 brothers and a sister, all from Ohio, where he was born. It also mentions that he owned a tavern in Prescott "until selling it and move to Phoenix". It doesn't say if he owned a business in Phoenix, nor the cause of death... Nor if he once had a wife and children. But it says he was a member of Moose Lodge in Prescott... :/
Very interesting find. Are you able to see if there is anything to link Otto to TR? Did they live near each other? If Otto had some kind of business in Phoenix, TR could have done electrical work for his business.
I don't know where TR lived back then and i couldn't find Otto's address...
I'm outside the US... some sites are not available in my region due to new EU "privacy laws" i think... and the paid ones (to check background, court files etc.) i don't know if they are reliable... But I would really like to know why did Otto sell his tavern, what made him move from Prescott to Phoenix, and what was his cause of death.
I'll find a way or someone to answer these questions...
It's too much of a coincidence. Unless TR fabricated his "lies" according to what he read in the newspapers or heard people saying?!
Good find! His location was unknown at the time. She very well could be one of his victims. I really think there are a lot more out there.
We know he sexually assaulted one little girl. The investigators called it tortured...
Does anyone know if Jun was assaulted?
Apart from her murder, we weren't given many details into her death that I recall.
The flip flips is a interesting detail. Why did he leave them on her? You'd think they would fall off when he transported her unless she was killed nearby, but then why would he undress her but leave her shoes on if that's the case? The kitty litter thing is another weird thing. A presumed victim of his that is never mentioned is the poor kitten that investigators found thrown over his back fence. Add animal cruelty to his long list of crimes. I assume this was Eunsoon's kitten hence the kitty litter. This guy was a monster.
Podcast Transcripts — Bear Brook
From the last post I was reading through the transcripts and found this,
"The forensic team found blood splatter on the heating and air conditioning ductwork above the pile of cat litter. It suggested that Eunsoon had been bludgeoned to death there in the crawlspace. They also discovered that her body had been dismembered." Podcast Transcripts — Bear Brook
Perhaps him killing her baby kitty was the catalyst to him killing her. I couldn't imagine. As a kitty mommy I would be a ballistic mess if this happened to me and would definitely lead to a screaming match confrontation. I am tearing up just thinking about it... (Has a kitten in lap as I am typing this).
Or after he killed her he killed the baby because he had no means to take care of it. Either way TR is a evil monster.
Few messy thoughts:
In 75 or 76 on family visit in Arizona with unknown woman he claims to live in Inglesite, TX. For six month up to June 78 he is again working and living in Tx (Houston). By this time middle child was approx around 2-3 years old. He abruptly left the area.
Note to myself - to check unsolved female murders of '78 or Jane Does in that area for possibility of middle child mother.
Sometimes in second half of '78 he is in CA and in few weeks/month he is in serious relationship with Marlyse. (Marlyse both previous husbands have ties to military).
Marlyse is last seen Nov 78' by her family in company of Terry.
Marlyse has ties to east coast - to Massachusetts where she lived before and to Connecticut where she grew up and her father still lived, and she also returned to live there with her 2nd husband.
Terry has no known ties at this point to east coast.
Sometimes after Nov '78 (shortly or after some other locations - probably TX) they moved to east coast - all 4 of them. It is possible they went to CT first too and later moved to NH.
First confirmed date of Terry (now Bob Evans) in Manchester, NH Hayward house is 21st Dec 79 (bad check), one year since Marlyse was last seen in CA. We can assume that they were there, in that location of NH at least few weeks by this time. At this point they would know each other/dating a bit over a year so not really a stretch for me personally to believe that Marlyse is Elizabeth who signs letter one moth later in January '80.
It also makes me believe that Marlyse's dad in CT knew that she was in NH and there might have been some contact or visit with children as it was not that far.
One family member mentioned that Marlyse married Terry. (in article with CT librarian/researcher)
Denise B period --- Nov '81 - March '84 (after he disappeared as Bob Evans and appeared as Curtis Kimball in CA)
It is safe to say that there is big possibility that in this period Terry used alias we are still unaware off. Question is how to find it or link it to him?
In that period he was moving from NH east coast to CA west coast. As per case insider he was short time in Georgia where he stole one identity documents and then some longer period in Texas Bay area (where he stole Curtis Kimball identity documents there). He definitely had some arrests in those years too, question is again, how to find them..
Any thoughts what to look for, how to trace two adults with 6 month old in tow with all names unknown? Where would they stay, do?
Last thought - Longetivity of his relationships (roughly):
1st wife 69/74 - around 5 years
Middle 's child mum - 75/78 - around 3 years (assumption)
Marlyse - 78/80 - around 1,5 to 2 years
Denise 81/unknown - around 2 years if we assume '83
Unknown woman in CA '84/85 - unknown (assumption around 1 year)
Eunsoon 01/02 - around 1 year (Terry 66 years old when arrested)
It is scary that from 1981 to 2001 we do not know much about him, his whereabouts or potential relationships. That's two decades.
I started following Beth Funchess thread here 3 days ago... What led me to her case was an electric cable. Beth and her mother Diane Funchess were reported missing from their home in 1977. The only thing missing was the TV cord. Diane's body was found 4 years later but baby Beth has never been located.
I can't check NamUs ruled out tab (unless i fake a US address, which i won't)... but i would like to know if there are any ruled out cases for Beth Funchess and the Allenstown middle child?
Both Beth and the MC have DNA, and should have been compared, but I question the automatic comparisons lately. If they were, it wouldn't be listed on the rule out list. I believe the possibility of Beth being the MC had been discussed on the first Allenstown thread, but I don't recall if the potential match was ever submitted.
You are an Angel! Thanks!
I've just read your comment there... I also thought it couldn't be Beth because she "had a father". But, apparently Diane's marriage was going downhill and her husband didn't want kids. An affair could have happened...
All TR's preys seem to have something in common: an unstable love life.
Is there a way fo find out if Beth was ever submitted as a potential match?
Great post! Your messy thoughts are nicely organized. I’ve had many of the same thoughts and questions.
So how do we go about trying to answer some of these questions? There has already been a lot of great work done on this case. How do we research without duplicating what’s already been done?
I’d extend the unknown time period for TR back to 1975, when his wife left him.