GUILTY NH - Kimberly Cates, 42, dead, 11yo girl maimed, Mont Vernon, 4 Oct 2009

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You right Spicedtea. People do tend to ignore alarms. I was thinking the mother did not hear the perps enter her home and perhaps the sound of a siren would have awaken her that trouble was lurking.

Now I wonder if the ring leader thinks he is Charles Mason. With the news lately concerning the crimes of Manson and Polanski, could have given the pack the terrible idea to commit murder. Just trying to figure this awful mess out.
 
I am hesitant to post this but am going to do so. My daughter is away at college and we got an hysterical 3 a.m. phone call from her 2 nights (mornings) ago. This has never happened so we were very concerned. She was crying uncontrollably and had just awakened from a nightmare and kept saying "it was a massacre, everything was so bloody".

She finally calmed down enough to say the nightmare had been about a woman and her daughter and 4 men who had massacred them and there was blood everywhere. She said the woman had been worried about her daughter who was sick and the next thing she knew, she looked at her and the daughter was covered in blood. She told me the thing that shocked her (my daughter) the most were the intense feelings of the dream where she felt the absolute horror the woman was feeling about her daughter. She cried on the phone quite a while until we got her calmed down and got off the phone.

My daughter has had several nightmare type things like this in the past that have turned out to be true so I said to myself I'd keep an eye on the news as I knew there must be something out there she was picking up on. But I haven't had time to do so until last night when my husband called me in to see the local news. It was about this woman and her murder and she has longtime ties to our city which is why, even though we are 2000 miles away, our local news was covering the story. It is also in our local paper this a.m.

As to why my daughter picked up on this I don't know, she hasn't had the TV or newspaper since August when she left for school. But it sadly makes me realize the woman didn't just die in her sleep, she most likely knew what was going on and her main concern and pain was for her daughter and not herself. God bless her and her family and daughter. There is no place in hell horrible enough for the perpetrators.
 
amysmom said:
snipped & bold by me

Who knows exactly what time they broke in?..The dead mom cant be the source, the severely injured daughter probably isnt capable now (if ever) of being the source, so that leaves the perps..It appears at least one is talking but I find it hard to believe any of them knows exactly what time it was..It also makes more sense to me Mark texted his dad just prior to the break in cos who would/could do it at the same time as the murder & mayhem? Even if they were in the basement..But then why be in shock?..Not sure I buy that excuse anyway.
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I'm not sure how the time of the break-in was determined, but in the article it says LE has determined the break-in occurred at 4AM.

I'm not trying to excuse this young man, but I am really confused. If he texted his dad at 4:10 and that was just prior to the break-in, then I have to wonder how he managed to get home by 4:30. I know crimes like this can be filled with frantic energy, and that it is possible it was all over and done with in 20 minutes. But for it to be over and this kid also had time to make it home---it makes me wonder if MAYBE he didn't stick around long enough to know what happened.

It was said those two stayed in the basement. If Mark texted his dad at 4:10 saying he was on his way home, IF he left right then, he may not have participated in the actual assault and murder. (Remember, these two haven't been arrested on the same charges as the other two, so LE must know something we don't know!)

The defense attorney will have a little "wiggle room" with the dad's statement about the quietness and calmness of his son. Especially now that we know the two who reportedly stayed in the basement actually attended school the next day, and seeming nothing was wrong. Defense will say that either #1, Mark knew what the other guys did and went into shock; or #2, Mark left the house before the assault and murder and was able to go about his life calmly because he did not yet know what the other two had done.
 
Fairy1 said:
From the sound of it, Spader was UNDER-medicated - and I'm certain the recreational drugs he was using were not helping.

This case is so very tragic all around. All of these boys who, by all accounts, were good boys with promising futures until recently, have murdered a completely innocent woman, nearly murdered an innocent child and destroyed their own lives. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I just don't get it. So many lives irrevocably overturned in, maybe, one hour and for $200 bucks. How the he!! are people supposed to make sense of it?
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Spader is the one who has been diagnosed with bi-polar. He didn't take his medication regularly, and I totally agree with you that it seems as though he was UNDER medicated.

I think Boyz_Mom and I were thinking in terms of OVER-medication as in when a person is incorrectly diagnosed with something like ADD and is given meds that he does not need. At least that's the point I was trying to make!


Fairy1 said:
I am beginning to believe these two really didn't know what the other two did at that house. I just can't see them being so nonchalant about it all. I'm hoping that's the case anyway...
Click to expand...

I'm willing to accept that as a possibility. At this point, it seems to be a growing possibility. Hopefully we'll learn more soon.

Deborah1012 said:
I am hesitant to post this but am going to do so. My daughter is away at college and we got an hysterical 3 a.m. phone call from her 2 nights (mornings) ago. This has never happened so we were very concerned. She was crying uncontrollably and had just awakened from a nightmare and kept saying "it was a massacre, everything was so bloody".

She finally calmed down enough to say the nightmare had been about a woman and her daughter and 4 men who had massacred them and there was blood everywhere. She said the woman had been worried about her daughter who was sick and the next thing she knew, she looked at her and the daughter was covered in blood. She told me the thing that shocked her (my daughter) the most were the intense feelings of the dream where she felt the absolute horror the woman was feeling about her daughter. She cried on the phone quite a while until we got her calmed down and got off the phone.

My daughter has had several nightmare type things like this in the past that have turned out to be true so I said to myself I'd keep an eye on the news as I knew there must be something out there she was picking up on. But I haven't had time to do so until last night when my husband called me in to see the local news. It was about this woman and her murder and she has longtime ties to our city which is why, even though we are 2000 miles away, our local news was covering the story. It is also in our local paper this a.m.

As to why my daughter picked up on this I don't know, she hasn't had the TV or newspaper since August when she left for school. But it sadly makes me realize the woman didn't just die in her sleep, she most likely knew what was going on and her main concern and pain was for her daughter and not herself. God bless her and her family and daughter. There is no place in hell horrible enough for the perpetrators.
Click to expand...

Whoa. That's scary. Your poor daughter!
 
Deborah1012 - many blessings to your daughter. She has been given a some ability beyond what most people have, and it sounds like a difficult ability at that. God bless her, as she must suffer much in these visions/dreams. I wish her peace. There must be many who doubt that these dreams she has are directly related to events that have really happened, but I believe you 100%. It is not an easy thing to deal with, and she is lucky to have a family as supportive as you all are. Hopefully some day the reason she has this ability will be revealed to her, and will make it easier for her to deal with this.
 
I personally don't care where the other two boys were, in a basement, up a tree or whatever. All the boys had weapons, and all knew no one was to be left alive in the house before they entered it. That they all entered it with weapons tells me one thing.

They should all be charged with murder period.
 
OMG they cut off the childs toes. I just saw NG. This poor baby was tortured by these murders. I cannot even think if mom heard her screams. Death to all of them, they don't belong in our society. :furious:
 
trigger said:
OMG they cut off the childs toes. I just saw NG. This poor baby was tortured by these murders. I cannot even think if mom heard her screams. Death to all of them, they don't belong in our society. :furious:
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Omg, that is a detail I hadn't heard before. How horrible for that baby.
 
amysmom said:
Witnesses: Car pulled from river

HOLLIS – State police investigating the murder of Mont Vernon mother and attempted murder of her young daughter this week pulled a car out of a secluded boat ramp beside the Nashua River after a two-day search of the site, two witnesses said yesterday.

We now know, from this article, who Autumn (Savoy, 19) is!

http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=43c4ad0d-b6bc-4123-b676-08f538560388
Click to expand...

I am confused about this, as i read that they also impounded the Mark's Black Toyota.. did LE take in 2 cars?
Did the boys take 2 different cars there?
 
OMG. I'm sure everybody else already knows but, I just finished watching the late repeat of Nancy Grace and learned that they chopped the little girls toes off with a machete.

Please tell me this happened in a death penalty state.
 
trigger said:
OMG they cut off the childs toes. I just saw NG. This poor baby was tortured by these murders. I cannot even think if mom heard her screams. Death to all of them, they don't belong in our society. :furious:
Click to expand...


In this case? I've not read that yet.. do you have a link for that?
Nevermind i found the link for that
 
I also googled "New Hampshire" and "Death Penalty", and learned that NH is indeed a DP state. (Answering my own question).
 
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