NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #10

Discussion in '2000's Missing' started by SheWhoMustNotBeNamed, Oct 25, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SheWhoMustNotBeNamed

    SheWhoMustNotBeNamed Former Member

    Messages:
    21,216
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  2. Loading...


  3. BillNH

    BillNH New Member

    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Good points Captain, but I can see the same points in a different way.

    Checking messages- she could have been meeting someone she was hoping to have a message from, or she was still on the fence and was looking for that last communication from someone special that may have changed her mind..I would add that she didn't check again during a 2 hour drive, could mean her mind was set after checking messages.

    The bank. Is there much difference between $240 and $500 or $600 if your plan is to start a new life? Was it worth the wait? I think it's reasonable to think an extra couple hundred really didn't matter enough to stick around.

    Packing. My personal view is that packing it in boxes supports a permanent leave. Not so much on it's own, but the old email from Billy about his infidelity left on top of the boxes tells me she was sending a clear message.

    Familiar places. Perhaps at the time she was searching she wanted one last visit to a place she was familiar with and/or had fond memories of. Coincidentally, if you zoom out a online map of either place, you get directions to Canada.

    We have no idea what her mindset was. Most tend to think it was that of a victim; poor girl, been through so much, yada yada yada. I tend to think she was very steeled and determined to make some changes in a very cold and calculated manner. Known details support this mindset as well as the victim mindset.
     
  4. BillNH

    BillNH New Member

    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I actually think there is quite a lot of evidence that suggests she didn’t intend to disappear and then met with foul play – it’s a bit complicated to unravel, but it is there.

    Something that suggests to me she wasn’t planning to start a new life is that she checked her cellphone messages before she set off on her journey. Heck, the fact she took the phone with her at all indicates she intended to continue taking and making calls. If she didn’t want to ever see any of the people in her life again, why would it matter if they left her a message? Why not just chuck the phone, or leave it behind?

    Then, there is her bank. She was due to be paid for her Uni job in a few days. Wouldn’t it have made sense for her to wait until that cleared before she set off, if she really wanted a new life?

    Then, why did she pack her stuff into boxes? She would have had the sense to realise her stuff would be investigated if she just disappeared. To me, that suggests she intended to come get the stuff and leave the Uni quickly and quietly at a later date.
    Why did she search for directions to places she had visited before? Why phone the GoStowe line? That’s not really far enough or removed enough for starting a new life. Why not directions for Canada, or Mexico, or to an airport?

    I just think she had to get out of town for some reason. I still have a suspicion that she was heading towards a local-ish town to stay a night or two and actually sort something out – be it a medical problem she had, organising a visit to a University, some way to claw herself out of the problems she found herself in. She was taking a proactive and essential step forwards, not running away from a life she couldn’t handle.

    Gods, I wish it had been possible to phone every hotel, hostel or bed/breakfast in NH to find out if anyone missed a reservation in those early days of the investigation.


    Italics my me, above taken from former thread.

    Good points Captain, but I can see the same points in a different way.

    Checking messages- she could have been meeting someone she was hoping to have a message from, or she was still on the fence and was looking for that last communication from someone special that may have changed her mind..I would add that she didn't check again during a 2 hour drive, could mean her mind was set after checking messages.

    The bank. Is there much difference between $240 and $500 or $600 if your plan is to start a new life? Was it worth the wait? I think it's reasonable to think an extra couple hundred really didn't matter enough to stick around.

    Packing. My personal view is that packing it in boxes supports a permanent leave. Not so much on it's own, but the old email from Billy about his infidelity left on top of the boxes tells me she was sending a clear message.

    Familiar places. Perhaps at the time she was searching she wanted one last visit to a place she was familiar with and/or had fond memories of. Coincidentally, if you zoom out a online map of either place, you get directions to Canada.

    We have no idea what her mindset was. Most tend to think it was that of a victim; poor girl, been through so much, yada yada yada. I tend to think she was very steeled and determined to make some changes in a very cold and calculated manner. Known details support this mindset as well as the victim mindset.
     
  5. BillNH

    BillNH New Member

    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sorry for the double post. The site went down while I was writing so I got an error message when I tried to post. I thought it didn't post because I tried to quote from a the other thread so I did it again. I did not expect any of them to actually post after I realized it was a Websleuth issue.
     
  6. OldSteve

    OldSteve New Member

    Messages:
    4,935
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Kind of exactly I did when I was about her age! Didn't go to the mountains, and didn't go alone (but no one knew that!)... Ironically, I had been depressed, been sick with mono, and school work was piling up, parents weren't happy with me...
    funny thing, suicide never even entered my mind - just wanted to get away for a week or more to a place I really liked where there was warm water, sunshine, and fun!

    Sorry to personalize this so - but it would have so easy for everyone to draw completely the wrong conclusion about what I was doing.
    Also, as I mentioned before - after a week my mind began playing tricks on me and I found myself thinking about family in ways I had done before and missing them like I had never done! Because of that I cannot see MM leaving her family permanently , no matter how mad she might have been, since all the years of growing up with them, being loved by them would out weight other factors (unless, I guess if a person was not loved, and abused - then I all bets are off)...
     
  7. Mountain Misst

    Mountain Misst FA in Aus.

    Messages:
    1,441
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    :bump: Maura Murray. I for one do not accept that this is a murderous situation, nor a suicide. Apart from family and bf, I would like to know what company she had been keeping in the months prior to her 'going walkabout'.

    I question that there might be an angle on 'the family wouldn't accept this version of me'.
     
  8. scoops

    scoops New Member

    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    I here what you are saying, but do you really believe Maura just took off for a brief amount of time, yet went through the trouble of packing up her dorm room? And on top of that, she didn't bring enough money with her to last her more than one night or two. and a real key point, she only packed a night's worth of clothing (yet many believe she was taking a week off from school).

    The argument that Maura just didn't have enough time to unpack her dorm room from winter break is pretty lame in my book and falls under the category of family spin and not truth.

    The supposed packed up room explanation along with the rag explanation by Fred IMO were all attempts to explain away and down-play the police investigators theory that Maura took her own life.

    Fred introduces to police that his daughter might have come up to the white mountains to harm herself.

    And Fred is also the person (who I believe regretted getting police to believe his daughter was depressed and a possible danger to herself) along with family who have had to then explain away anything that would remotely appear to police as support to a suicide theory.

    That is why IMO, fred was quick to chime in about the rag in the tailpipe and also the goofy explanation for Maura's room being fully packed up.
     
  9. OldSteve

    OldSteve New Member

    Messages:
    4,935
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    BBM - I shook my head as I remembered in my own case how I had no common sense about expenses I would encounter, or how much $$ to take.

    But at least I had enough for a week or two... Still, I had no real plan other than to simply to get away...

    Of course that was me. If only to know what was going on in her mind....

    Your points are well taken, Scoops.
     
  10. goldiegirl

    goldiegirl New Member

    Messages:
    361
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Scoops, I didn't even think about her only taking one night's worth of clothing! I guess I should have caught onto that detail long ago, but that speaks volumes IMO. Not sure what exactly it speaks of, but that's a pretty important detail. She had enough time to do all that research before leaving and to send those emails, so I can't imagine why she wouldn't throw in a few extra outfits.

    I've done TONS of spontaneous things and lots of little day trips that no one knew about. Sometimes even a night somewhere. Sometimes I'm in crisis, and sometimes I just want to get away, as I'm a pretty private person. I'll even take a drive a few hours away to the next state and back without even my husband knowing (not to be malicious, just because I knew I'd be back before he worried). But I've never left without even clothes!

    This could mean a couple things. Just looking at my own experiences, if I didn't take clothes it would only be because I didn't think I would need them. I'd never just forget. My shower stuff and my clothes are the most important things if I'm taking off. So, why wouldn't someone need them? Well, unfortunately, suicide, or MAYBE SHE PLANNED TO COME BACK THE NEXT DAY? If she was calculating enough to take one night's worth of clothes, I would say that she had a plan and that plan was to come back really soon! Or to kill herself. If you think about it, those are the only two options that make any sense.
     
  11. OldSteve

    OldSteve New Member

    Messages:
    4,935
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Point well taken Goldiegirl about only one night's cloths! I too had glossed over that in Scoops' post and I should not have.

    Even as naive as I was about taking off, I did bring more than just a night's clothing. Money was tricky for me to have figured out back then (early 1960's); not being experienced in going away on my own.. I wished I could remember how much clothing I did take... it wasn't much though... I do remember taking a shower and washing my clothes at the same time, though, ha!
     
  12. Captain_Khan

    Captain_Khan New Member

    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sorry to be lagging behind here - what do we mean by 'one night's worth of clothing'? Did she take any extra clothes at all (something to sleep in, change of underwear, etc) or was it literally just the clothes she was wearing at that moment?

    Because that's a pretty important thing, in my opinion.
     
  13. deca

    deca New Member

    Messages:
    2,229
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    And how sure are we that she didn't take a little something- like an extra pair of sweats? I always keep one change of clothes in the car, myself. But even if she didn't, how (nowadays) does anyone look into a MP and definitively state that no clothes are missing? Obviously you would notice if a significant portion of the closet was missing, but one outfit?
    I don't have a whole lot of clothes, but I have enough that someone close to me (like my spouse) would have no idea if a pair of jeans and a t shirt was missing.
    A t shirt and pair of panties to sleep in would easily fold into the bottom of a backpack, too.
     
  14. kimmie0313

    kimmie0313 Member

    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    My thought on this is that no one truly knows what Maura took out of that car with her. One can only speculate. Obviously, she wouldn't be able to carry around too much seeing how she was on foot, but to say for certain would just be speculation IMO.
     
  15. scoops

    scoops New Member

    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    a couple of "family spokespeople" have pointed out that Maura didn't have much clothing with her and how they know is that Maura left everything behind in her car along with an extra pair of tennis shoes.

    Police and family have described what they believe Maura to be physically wearing that night and that included a dark colored jacket, jeans and a pair of Dexter's (I would call it a casual athletic shoe or sneaker) but they are also called bowling shoes.

    A display photo was taken of the contents of Maura's packed bag that she had left in her car. And in that display photo, I can clearly see a pair of gray sweats and what looks to be a black sweater or possible black (north-face like) jacket. And that was it for clothes (other than underwear which I am sure they decided not to display in the photo).

    I truly believe the gray sweats (because they are unique looking and quite baggy) were the same ones Maura was wearing (ironically along with a black sweater or jacket) in a photo that can be found on the internet of her and her father posing at the top of a summit (which looks like the photo was taken fairly recently to her going missing).

    Both photos (display photo of Maura's bag contents) and the photo of Maura posing with her father are both online and you can analyze yourself. In the display photo, there are two bags shown (but the one with a bunch of stuff including a bottle of soda sticking out of it) I believe is Maura's sister's bag and not Maura's. Maura's sister was staying in a motel when the photographer visited and did the display photo.
     
  16. scoops

    scoops New Member

    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Here is a link to the photo of Maura posing with her father. (there are several photos, but it should be easy to spot the photo I am referring to with her and her father posing at a summit. (I believe this photo may have been taken like three to four months before Maura went missing).

    http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html


    the second link is to the display photo of what was found in Maura's bag. I believe her bag is the empty one to the right (person viewing the photo's right of Maura's sister Kathleen). You can see a black sweater/jacket and what appears to be a pair of gray sweats. Compare those to the photo of Maura posing with her father and see if you think they are the same outfit.

    There is a second bag in this photo to the (left of Kathleen for someone viewing the picture) and that bag I believe to be Kathleen's and not Maura's. This photo was shot not long after family got a hold of Maura's car contents and family was all staying in a motel at the time as they searched for Maura.


    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ey5pibanTFc/T424id9yDiI/AAAAAAAAAg8/5xBubGBM6qU/s1600/028missingC.jpg



    Hopefully the links work.
     
  17. goldiegirl

    goldiegirl New Member

    Messages:
    361
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is really unimportant in terms of figuring out what ultimately happened, but it crossed my mind as I considered ordering a pizza myself last night:

    Some have speculated that Maura's ordering a pizza for herself with someone else's credit card may have been a sign of an eating disorder. It could have been. But also... think about it, a pizza is one of the only things you can buy without having to show ID, since you pay over the phone. Of course we can do all kinds of online transactions now, but at the time those weren't as popular. So if you got a hold of someone's credit card information and wanted to test it to see if it would work, I can see ordering a pizza to be a good way of doing this. If they tell you it is declined, well then you just don't get your pizza. But they aren't going to ask you for ID. I'm willing to bet she had bigger plans for that credit card in the future had she not gotten caught, and this was just a test run.

    Not that it really matters.
     
  18. Captain_Khan

    Captain_Khan New Member

    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Nice one. Seems Maura took a washbag - you can see the toothpaste, toothbrush, shampoo, etc. I see that as further evidence she didn't envision this car drive ending in her death. She grabbed that stuff for a reason.

    I also think that might hint she wasn't intending to stay with someone. You might bring your toothbrush in that instance, sure, but why bother packing shampoo? That's something you're more likely to take to a Bed and Breakfast with you, I think.
     
  19. scoops

    scoops New Member

    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    for the record, I have never believed that maura wanted to take her own life by taking off in her car and killing herself.

    I have long believed that maura was going to spend one night in a hotel (write a suicide note) and then first thing in the morning, she would abandoned her car, leave the note inside the car and head for the trails.

    I use the arrival time that maura (would've known) as to when she got to the white mountains (arriving at dark as opposed to in daylight) and the fact she hardly had any money, not enough money to spend more than one day in a hotel).

    I have always believed the second accident wasn't planned.
     
  20. McSpy

    McSpy New Member

    Messages:
    10,562
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    BBM

    There is no absolute proof she packed up her dorm room right before her trip to NH. She was only back from winter break for a couple of weeks. She may not have totally unpacked those boxes or bags. You could be right, but there is that possibility it is jumping to conclusions.

    JMO
     
  21. McSpy

    McSpy New Member

    Messages:
    10,562
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe she had a credit card. I don't know what kind of credit limit she had on it though.

    JMO
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice