PARENTS KILLED AMBER ALERT ISSUED FOR 13-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER
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POLICE NEED PUBLIC'S HELP IN FINDING MISSING AND PREGNANT KIERRA COLES

NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #11

Discussion in '2000's Missing' started by SheWhoMustNotBeNamed, Oct 25, 2013.

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  1. SheWhoMustNotBeNamed

    SheWhoMustNotBeNamed Former Member

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  2. walkingdeadgirl

    walkingdeadgirl Gunslinger

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    I just reread the dispatch call logs from the 24 hours in which Maura went missing. FM called when he found out about the accident and said he had "important information" for the officer in charge of her case. I would really like to know what this information was, and if it really was important, or just something FM considered to be such.
     
  3. walkingdeadgirl

    walkingdeadgirl Gunslinger

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    I'm stuck in bed today...invisible illnesses are a$$clowns. Please don't mind all of my posts that possibly have no connection to each other, other than being about Maura.

    FM has said that when police dogs were used on the Wednesday after Maura disappeared, they were given a pair of gloves from the car to smell. The gloves were new...possibly not worn yet. FM wanted them to re-search using her running shoes, or something else she had more contact with, but they didn't repeat the search at that time. We know that the dogs lost the scent 100 yards east of the Saturn. After researching a bit about tracking dogs and air scent dogs, could the factors of time, scene contamination, and the newness of the gloves have caused the dog to lose her scent?
     
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  4. walkingdeadgirl

    walkingdeadgirl Gunslinger

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    Questions:

    Why did Maura have FM's car to begin with after dinner?

    Why was Maura so "agitated" about getting the car back to him at 2am+?

    How did she get into his hotel room after the accident, get his phone, and use it to make phone calls to BR and others without waking him up?

    What happened to the carpet samples from the A frame house that cadaver dogs alerted at? (Private Investigators didn't turn this information over to LE for 2.5 years.)

    What happened to the residents of the above house, who, according to a local resident, haven't been seen in the area since Maura disappeared?

    What happened to the knife that the now-deceased man sent to police in 2004?
     
  5. Fireweed

    Fireweed New Member

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    I think this is a very important question and one of the reasons that I do not find Fred Murray to be a credible witness. He has not addressed this very bizarre event. I believe he knows why Maura was so agitated about getting the car back to him, and I believe he also knows that whatever that reason was, has something to do with her decision to flee north that Monday.
     
  6. walkingdeadgirl

    walkingdeadgirl Gunslinger

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    It is just a very unusual word for someone to use, you know? Not worried, but agitated. So FM, Maura, and KM went out to a pub for dinner and drinks. He lets her take his car, and she is supposed to return it the next day. Maura and KM go to a party, drink, and Maura becomes agitated about returning the car at 2am. She lies, says she is going back to her dorm, and tears off for the hotel. Gets into an accident, somehow doesn't get arrested for a DUI, (though when James Renner asked the attending officer why she wasn't arrested, he was hung up on) and hitched a ride to the hotel with the tow truck driver. She was frantic to get to FM, but according to him, she came in, used his phone to make several calls, was upset...all without waking him up. He didn't find out about the accident until morning.

    That. Makes. No. Sense.

    I know people have time lined it out to show Maura couldn't have been involved in the hit and run on Vasi, but FM's insurance appraiser saw the Saturn with "extensive body damage" when he was reviewing the Toyota, which was before her "second" accident.

    FM continues to say "what happened before she disappeared doesn't matter", because he believes Maura was abducted and killed, so none of those details would help find her. I can understand that, IF it was a certainty she was abducted. If there is even a sliver of a chance of Maura being alive, though, then FM does her a disservice by refusing to talk, misleading LE, and outright lying, because anything could be a clue.
     
  7. walkingdeadgirl

    walkingdeadgirl Gunslinger

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    And as long as I'm talking about FM, who according to his Supplemental Narrative to UMass PD, didn't find out about the accident until Maura woke up at 10am, said this:
    "I was sure she would call because she wouldn't let me down again." In regards to calling her Sunday about getting reports and such. In the Narrative, he mentions her letting him down numerous times, even though in interviews he has said the accident was no big deal, and nothing that would cause Maura to run.

    Gee, maybe she felt like she "let him down" one time too many...
     
  8. Fireweed

    Fireweed New Member

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    I for one, after reviewing all the evidence, am convinced that Maura and Fred's relationship was very strained when she left that Monday. That does not mean that Fred was a bad father or Maura was a bad person; it just means that they were going through hard time.

    I still am trying to figure out why Maura was so desperate to get the car back to her dad. I have some thoughts.

    Let's break it down: Maura was hell-bent on returning the car to Fred at his hotel room. At 2 in the morning. This is odd for several reasons. Was Maura thinking she would sleep in the hotel room? Was Maura confident her father would be awake at that hour? (My parents who are Fred's age are only awake at 2 am if they are having a bout of insomnia) Why does Maura think there is a difference between returning the car at 2 am versus 8 am? Were they planning on departing to go somewhere at 5 am? I don't get it. Maura's father at least knew she had been drinking earlier that night, wouldn't he be upset that she was driving his car at 2 am on a Sunday in a college town?

    Maura told her friends that she needed to get her dad's car back to him (which made no sense to them), but maybe she just needed to see her father for some reason. What could not wait until morning?

    I can think of some possibilities. The main thing that comes to mind is that Maura was planning on dropping out of school, or she was worried that she was about to be kicked out of school or the dorms. Recall that she had already been kicked out of one school. Her father comes up that weekend to shop for a new car for her (assume this is true). At this point Maura knows she does not need another car "for school". How guilty is she feeling at this point? Nothing major happened between Sunday morning and Monday morning, yet Maura had decided to pack up her room. Whether Maura was planning on disappearing for good, she was planning on leaving her dorm, and very likely also the university. So back to that night at Fred's hotel. Was Maura just feeling so much guilt that she could not stand it anymore? Was she agitated because she really felt the need at that moment to go tell Fred that she was leaving school? Did the car shopping earlier that day really seal it for her? I mean, did she see that her father was all ready to spend $4,000 to get her back and forth from clinicals that she had no intention of doing, and did that push her guilt over the precipice?
     
  9. walkingdeadgirl

    walkingdeadgirl Gunslinger

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    I know she was at her campus job when Vasi was hit on Friday night...but could she have run out for food? Lent someone her car? Maybe that was the upsetting phone call.

    Then the day with her dad. Then dinner, and they pick up her friend. FM goes drinking with them, but doesn't remember if he went to buy wine with them or not. Maura is driving. Was he drunk? Tired? They drop him off, go to party, etc.

    After the accident, she talks to BR and he thinks she is upset about more than just the accident. Could it be because she may be charged, which could hurt the cc deal? Because she had an accident in the Saturn already? Upset about a different reason FM is there?

    She goes to sleep, FM wakes up at 10am to find her in bed asleep. She tells him about the accident when she wakes up. He says when he takes her back to school she is "whimpering" and slumped down.

    He goes on and on about the trouble to get a replacement car on a Sunday, how upset she was, how she let him down...but it was no big deal?

    You're right, it definitely seems like there was some conflict going on between them.

    I think whatever happened between that morning and when he dropped her off pushed her over the edge. That's when she started doing the searches for places to stay...that's when she decided to go to Burlington/Stowe.
     
  10. Gene S.

    Gene S. New Member

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    I agree that Fred's narrative of Saturday doesn't make sense. Add to your list the $4,000 in cash, gathered piecemeal over 8 ATM transactions--if they were truly car shopping and found one they wanted, wouldn't they at least have put down a deposit?

    I think Fred was worried that law enforcement would discover that he had withdrawn all that cash right before her disappearance and concocted the car shopping story to explain why he had it. I don't know what the $4,000 cash was truly intended for, but I don't think it was to purchase a car.
     
  11. Lolacat

    Lolacat New Member

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    This is a very intriguing discussion. I have often wondered if Maura was fearful or uncomfortable about someone at her dorm which is why she chose not to stay there the night of the party and why she packed up her stuff to move out. I also believe that Fred is not being entirely genuine about events on night of the party. Its so frustrating as the days just prior to her disappearance are so key to this mystery and yet noone seems to want to talk about them. Why?
     
  12. Fireweed

    Fireweed New Member

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    Though it does not seem very likely (I think Maura's problems were internal), it would make a lot more sense to me that someone was following/stalking Maura than that she just happened to run into a "local dirtbag."
     
  13. walkingdeadgirl

    walkingdeadgirl Gunslinger

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    One girl from the party "couldn't remember" who else was there. Another girl didn't want to talk about anything because she "didn't want to get Maura into trouble". What could have gone on or been said there that could have gotten her into trouble? drinking? doubtful.

    What if she told them what happened to her car for it to have been damaged? One auto body expert and one police officer knew it was damaged prior to her disappearing, whether she was the one to cause that damage or not. Maybe while drinking, she got a little confessional. that happens, right? you drink a little, and start telling everyone you love them, or tell someone that you secretly hate your mother in law. Maybe she decided to come clean to her dad about what happened to her car...became agitated about going right then. If she had said she was going to confess, they may have stopped her, so she said she needed to return the car. (I happen to think, nothing against Maura, that she was quite accomplished at lying.) She decides if she doesn't do it right then she won't do it at all. She lies, says she is going to her room, and takes off for the hotel. Accident. (which will impact her cc case, so add that to her building stress.)

    Gets to the hotel, and according to FM she doesn't wake him up. I don't believe that, but we can say that's what happened. She calls BR and he says she's upset, but there seems to be something else bothering her. (does she tell him, too? or is he in the dark?)

    FM wakes up at 10am, gets the story at 10:30am. FM drops her off at her dorm at 1:00pm. I'll attach his Supplemental Narrative at the bottom. I read an analysis of it, and an expert in the matter feels there are indications of untruths and indications of fights between them. I think it reads false in places, as well. He doesn't remember if he picked up alcohol with the girls, but he remembers the kind of drinks they had. Too many details in some places, imho.

    I wonder where that money went. They didn't use it. As Gene said, a deposit on a car would have made sense, however they didn't make one. There was a story about needing $2,000 more for a Geo, and planning on coming back with more money at a later date, however NO car salesperson in the area remembers seeing them or has a record of taking them for a test drive. Did FM ever deposit that money back into his account?

    If Maura, after a royal tongue-lashing from FM, (I don't believe it was "no big deal" as he has made it sound in various places) decided that she was quits, could she have taken the $4,000? He couldn't have had it in his wallet...that's too much cash to sit on. It would have been in an envelope, right? In the glove compartment? On the seat? In the hotel room safe? If he found out that she took it, he certainly wouldn't have told LE - he was already struggling to convince them of foul play so they would look for her - if he had said she took $4,000 from him, they would add that to the "no evidence of foul play" and decided that she went voluntarily missing. that could also be another reason he continually says "what happened before doesn't matter" when asked about those days - it is a way to not tell the truth without actually lying about it.

    I would really, really love to know if he ever deposited that money.



    Questions:

    What happened to her car before she disappeared? (the FIRST first accident)

    Where did the $4,000 go?

    Why did Julie Murray, when questioned by JR, first say "I can tell you exactly why he was there" when asked why FM was in Amherst that weekend...then was interrupted and told not to answer...then said "I told the police. But I don't think I could tell you. It's an open investigation." (it is public knowledge they were car shopping, so if that was the answer, what's the big deal?)

    FM has always been rabid about going after LE. Did they really mess up, or is he using misdirection?

    If he wasn't really there to go car shopping, why was FM there? Maura had been on the Dean's list, but was she still getting good grades? (Maybe he was there to take her out of school.)


    http://******************.blogspot.com/2014/01/maura-murray_6.html
     
  14. walkingdeadgirl

    walkingdeadgirl Gunslinger

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  15. walkingdeadgirl

    walkingdeadgirl Gunslinger

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    I thought the same thing, because what are the damned odds, you know? and she had that track coach boyfriend that she dropped like a hot rock - just stopped calling him without telling him why. maybe he got angry about that and stalked her.

    the A frame house, though, with the "known violent man" with a sex thing that is only 3/4ths of a mile from where she crashed...who has friends in law enforcement...and who hasn't been seen around since Maura disappeared.

    that gives me an ugly tickle in the back of my throat. it's also the house where cadaver dogs went nuts. Who knows what happened to the carpet samples, though, since it was a group of private investigators that recovered the samples, and apparently due to internal conflict the samples were misplaced. LE didn't hear about or receive the samples for 2.5 years, and I haven't been able to find out what became of them.
     
  16. Fireweed

    Fireweed New Member

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    I mean, unless the cadaver plus all the cadaverene has been removed, then cadaver dogs should still "go nuts" out there.

    But I do not think that LE in this case has been that incompetent. What is the original source for the cadaver dogs and the A-frame?
     
  17. Fireweed

    Fireweed New Member

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    Can you really pick out a car one weekend and come back the next weekend to buy it? Maybe. Maybe it will still be there. But generally when people buy a used car, they snatch it up right then and there.

    I want to, for the sake of an exercise, to assume that Fred is lying about car shopping. What was so secretive about that weekend that Fred has felt the need to cover it up even 10 years later? So many times we focus on that Thursday night, but what happened earlier that week? Did something happen that Fred only found out about that Thursday night? Is that why Maura was upset? Did her sister "tell" on her?

    Some days I have a bad feeling about the Murrays. I sometimes am convinced that they know that Maura ran away and where she is, and that is why they are obsessed with convincing the public that we need to look at LE and the first 36 hours after the crash. When Fred says something like, "Why would Maura run away when she was getting a new car the next weekend and when she was going to get married?" I get a major sinking feeling. Fred is not an idiot. He knows damn well that a packed up dorm room, a printed "fight" email from a BF, and taking an entire week off school does not point to a person looking forward to the bright future she was "intended" to have. So then why is he trying so hard to convince us of that? Fred does not want the search for Maura to extend anywhere past the Haverhill area. Why? After all this man's insincerity and misdirection I can come up with only one answer: because he knows that she is most certainly not in the Haverhill area.
     
  18. walkingdeadgirl

    walkingdeadgirl Gunslinger

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    Continuing in that line, Fireweed, this idea could explain where the money went, why FM immediately said "suicide" (which is why LE said it), why he switched and has stuck to abducted and murdered and flat out refused to entertain anything differently.

    FM has said police left him a voicemail regarding his car being abandoned but he didn't get it right away because he was at work...and found out later from Katherine that Maura was missing.

    Was he at work that day?

    When did he really find out about the accident?

    Was the accident planned, or was it truly an accident?

    The only thing I wonder about, is if they helped her run, which they would have, I think, if she were determined, and if originally it wasn't supposed to be long term or turn into such a big deal, where is the evidence? There is the phone call with Katherine, but that was before SHTF. Who gave her a ride? Where are the phone calls planning it? A missing, unknown cell phone? That would indicate much longer, intricate planning.
     
  19. walkingdeadgirl

    walkingdeadgirl Gunslinger

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    They really haven't been...they drove around looking for her and put out a BOLO. I think it is either crazy frustration or misdirection.

    The original source was an April 2011 article in SOCO by Kerry Miller. I don't know how to link from my tablet because I am a rock star. The private investigators volunteered to help FM search. The A frame house was vacant, and the Realtor let them search. FM has since fallen out with the PI group, for what it is worth.
     
  20. walkingdeadgirl

    walkingdeadgirl Gunslinger

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    And in some document, he names the make, model, color, etc of the car that they were short $2,000 for. If that is the car you are "coming back next weekend for", why no deposit, and why didn't you test drive it? Who buys cars without driving them??? If you know ahead of time you are going to do this, why go to eight different ATM machines instead of the bank, earlier in the week? I just don't buy the car story.
     
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