NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #11

[Fireweed]

So Butch Atwood was never actually a cop. It just seems that this case is not the first time I have seen a male witness try and claim the he used to be a cop. I just find it a little odd.

 

[Lolacat]

So Butch Atwood was never actually a cop. It just seems that this case is not the first time I have seen a male witness try and claim the he used to be a cop. I just find it a little odd.

Yeah, thats weird. Perhaps people like to emphasise even the most tenuous links to LE to make themselves appear more important or trustworthy. I wouldnt class a security guard as "law enforcement" but maybe others might.

Personally, I dont think BA was hiding anything sinister (and he was fully investigated by the police with polygraphs etc). I think at most he was guilty of perhaps *bigging himself up* lol.

Imagine though for a moment if he were- that would be a complete game changer. ALL of our theories hinge on BA's account of Maura's last sighting.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

Yeah, thats weird. Perhaps people like to emphasise even the most tenuous links to LE to make themselves appear more important or trustworthy. I wouldnt class a security guard as "law enforcement" but maybe others might.

Personally, I dont think BA was hiding anything sinister (and he was fully investigated by the police with polygraphs etc). I think at most he was guilty of perhaps *bigging himself up* lol.

Imagine though for a moment if he were- that would be a complete game changer. ALL of our theories hinge on BA's account of Maura's last sighting.

I don't think he was hiding anything sinister, but I think maybe he was afraid to get involved in something. I'm not the biggest fan of polygraphs; I don't think they are terribly reliable, I personally could do anything and pass one, and I think they are easy to fool, but BA took two - he failed the first one and passed the second.

I'm curious as to why he felt the need to specifically mention French Pond...was he worried someone had seen him there and was covering his arse, was he trying to drop a hint...

Just some oddities I'd like to dig deeper into.

 

[Fireweed]

Yeah, thats weird. Perhaps people like to emphasise even the most tenuous links to LE to make themselves appear more important or trustworthy. I wouldnt class a security guard as "law enforcement" but maybe others might.

Personally, I dont think BA was hiding anything sinister (and he was fully investigated by the police with polygraphs etc). I think at most he was guilty of perhaps *bigging himself up* lol.

Imagine though for a moment if he were- that would be a complete game changer. ALL of our theories hinge on BA's account of Maura's last sighting.

I just wonder how trustworthy the statements of a guy who feels the need to big himself up are. Personally the statements of a school bus driver who never worked for LE are just as credible to me as one who once was a cop. Actually the fact the Atwood was a school bus driver to me was reassuring, because it meant he had undergone a criminal background check, was willing to be fingerprinted, etc. In other words, he was not sketchy.

 

[scoops]

I don't think he was hiding anything sinister, but I think maybe he was afraid to get involved in something. I'm not the biggest fan of polygraphs; I don't think they are terribly reliable, I personally could do anything and pass one, and I think they are easy to fool, but BA took two - he failed the first one and passed the second.

I'm curious as to why he felt the need to specifically mention French Pond...was he worried someone had seen him there and was covering his arse, was he trying to drop a hint...

Just some oddities I'd like to dig deeper into.

I think the evidence points to him (The SBD) not having anything to do with maura's disappearance.

He called 911 WHILE SHE WAS LEFT ALONE at her car and this is backed up by other witness accounts.

An abductor would not leave their victim alone, go inform the police, then return to the scene and pull off an abduction.

He backed his bus up that night (most likely out of urgency) to get his wife's attention to have her call 911.

A tree-line in his yard that extends to the road would've prevented him from being able to see the accident location (with his bus backed up to the front door as opposed to its normal parking spot which was right near the road).

The only scenario that would make any kind of sense is that if Maura on her own volition decided to approach the bus driver (while he was at his house) and she pleaded for him to hide her, until police left the scene.

But since the bus driver had already told Maura he was calling police when he first encountered her, I would highly doubt that she would want to seek him out for help when she left her vehicle.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

I just wonder how trustworthy the statements of a guy who feels the need to big himself up are. Personally the statements of a school bus driver who never worked for LE are just as credible to me as one who once was a cop. Actually the fact the Atwood was a school bus driver to me was reassuring, because it meant he had undergone a criminal background check, was willing to be fingerprinted, etc. In other words, he was not sketchy.

Right - I felt the same way...bus driver = criminal background check = trustworthy, so I just took what he was reported to have said as fact, and I didn't even really care that he failed his first polygraph (maybe he was just nervous). All of this liar stuff bugs me.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

I think the evidence points to him (The SBD) not having anything to do with maura's disappearance.

He called 911 WHILE SHE WAS LEFT ALONE at her car and this is backed up by other witness accounts.

An abductor would not leave their victim alone, go inform the police, then return to the scene and pull off an abduction.

He backed his bus up that night (most likely out of urgency) to get his wife's attention to have her call 911.

A tree-line in his yard that extends to the road would've prevented him from being able to see the accident location (with his bus backed up to the front door as opposed to its normal parking spot which was right near the road).

The only scenario that would make any kind of sense is that if Maura on her own volition decided to approach the bus driver (while he was at his house) and she pleaded for him to hide her, until police left the scene.

But since the bus driver had already told Maura he was calling police when he first encountered her, I would highly doubt that she would want to seek him out for help when she left her vehicle.

if you're directing this at me, which I'm assuming you are since you quoted me, I've already said more than once I don't think BA was involved in Maura's disappearance.

I do, however, think that he saw more than he reported, and was perhaps afraid to come forward with that information.

 

[Lolacat]

Right - I felt the same way...bus driver = criminal background check = trustworthy, so I just took what he was reported to have said as fact, and I didn't even really care that he failed his first polygraph (maybe he was just nervous). All of this liar stuff bugs me.

I agree about the polygraph- they arent reliable. Plus, I think he failed the first one because he had heart issues which would cause irregularities in his heart rate and therefore make the polygraph useless. Heck, if someone suffers from severe anxiety they can easily go into physical "fight or flight" mode and get a *lying* verdict on a polygraph, even if they are innocent.

Also, Faith Westman was watching the scene after the crash. If BA was up to something dodgy, their stories wouldnt have matched up.

 

[walkingdeadgirl]

I agree about the polygraph- they arent reliable. Plus, I think he failed the first one because he had heart issues which would cause irregularities in his heart rate and therefore make the polygraph useless. Heck, if someone suffers from severe anxiety they can easily go into physical "fight or flight" mode and get a *lying* verdict on a polygraph, even if they are innocent.

Also, Faith Westman was watching the scene after the crash. If BA was up to something dodgy, their stories wouldnt have matched up.

exactly. someone with anxiety can be honest as a kite, and fail all day...or someone with emotional difficulties, ASD for example, could pass with every word a lie. (though typically ASD folks don't lie. I think his medical issues are why he did poorly, and I think LE felt the same way, otherwise they wouldn't have given him a second one.

Faith Westman was watching, her husband was watching, there was another neighbor, I think, that was watching...there were a few witnesses that were watching, and while they thought it was odd that he stayed on his bus the whole time, none of them saw him go back to the scene, or saw Maura go to the bus, or saw them interact again.

The things he lied about just bug me. I'm not a big fan of lying to begin with...it just makes tangles in your thread, you know? but some of it makes no sense. why say you don't know the construction worker? you live in a small town, the man is your neighbor, (he might even live on the same property, I can't remember at the moment) LE is going to know in about 7 minutes that you are lying. so how is it benefiting you to lie? what is the outcome you are hoping for? did it just fall out? were you trying to distance yourself from him?

or maybe he just is one of those people that has a little bit of lying fever and lies because he can't help it, and it doesn't really mean anything.

 

[Nordicpete]

I know she was at her campus job when Vasi was hit on Friday night...but could she have run out for food? Lent someone her car? Maybe that was the upsetting phone call.

Then the day with her dad. Then dinner, and they pick up her friend. FM goes drinking with them, but doesn't remember if he went to buy wine with them or not. Maura is driving. Was he drunk? Tired? They drop him off, go to party, etc.

After the accident, she talks to BR and he thinks she is upset about more than just the accident. Could it be because she may be charged, which could hurt the cc deal? Because she had an accident in the Saturn already? Upset about a different reason FM is there?

She goes to sleep, FM wakes up at 10am to find her in bed asleep. She tells him about the accident when she wakes up. He says when he takes her back to school she is "whimpering" and slumped down.

He goes on and on about the trouble to get a replacement car on a Sunday, how upset she was, how she let him down...but it was no big deal?

You're right, it definitely seems like there was some conflict going on between them.

I think whatever happened between that morning and when he dropped her off pushed her over the edge. That's when she started doing the searches for places to stay...that's when she decided to go to Burlington/Stowe.

I´ve been following this sad case for years and I´ve always been of the opinion that Maura´s Saturn likely was involved in the Petrit Vasi hit-and-run in Amherst, whether Maura or a friend was driving the car at the time.

 

[Nordicpete]

I wonder, was Bear Notch Road - the road that connects 112 to Bartlett - even open that time of year?

No, according to reliable local sources Bear Notch Road is closed/not plowed in winter.

 

[Fireweed]

So it is about 55 miles from the crash site to Bartlett. If Maura made it to Bartlett that night, then she must have had some sort of transportation. I think it is entirely possible that she made it to Franconia or Lincoln that night on foot.

 

[Fireweed]

One more thing I have been thinking about. The night Maura was itching to get to her father's hotel: was she maybe actually heading somewhere else and the accident put a wrench in her plans? Maybe she was meeting up with a guy and the accident meant she had to get towed to the hotel???

 

[Fireweed]

Hey why did Maura use Fred's phone to call Billy that night? I mean if she and Billy were on the same plan, would it not have been free to call Billy? She used her phone to get a tow truck right? Or was it the cop?

I wonder if Maura was just sloppy about keeping her phone charged or keeping it with her.

 

[Fireweed]

If Maura was only intending to be gone for a week, and she had already sent an email with an "excuse," then why would she leave her room in a state for someone else to find it? Maura left an email from Billy on top her packed boxes. This can only mean that Maura had the expectation at the time she left the note that someone else would wind up finding it. Would someone enter her dorm after a day? A week? It seems that at the very least she did not want UMass worrying about her for the next week (email to profs). Even Fred Murray's cell phone records show that he made no attempt to contact her on either Monday or Tuesday (until he heard about the accident). Conclusion: Maura's intent when she left Amherst that Monday was to be gone long enough for someone else to enter her dorm room. She was not getting away for a few days. No one would enter her dorm room in that period of time. In fact it seems that she did not WANT anyone entering her room for at least a week. She was getting away for a very long time - long enough that she knew her room would be searched and the email from Billy would be found.

My theory: Maura was going to call her father that Monday night from a hotel in Bartlett. She was not going to tell him she was in Bartlett. She came prepared to go over the accident forms. This way her father would be none the wiser that she was on the path to disappearing for good. It would take a few more days after that for Fred and the rest of the family to become worried enough to really start searching for her. She was also not going to call Billy, and if he attempted to call her and she did not answer, it would not be surprising since the last communication from her had stated that she did not feel like talking to anyone. In fact, this may have been something that the "private" and "introverted" Maura did sometimes.

The car wreck put a dent in these plans. Maura knew that the cops were coming and that they would find out that the car was registered to Fred. Would they contact him right away? For all she knows, they will. She cannot call her father now. She has to change her original plan. She cannot return to her family like this: she was supposed to be in school and she was not. She had been driving drunk (again) and had wrecked a car (again). She had wrecked a car that she was not really supposed to be driving. She calls no one because calling someone was not an option at this point. They will know that she packed up her room and clearly had no intention of returning to school. Maura evens turns off her cell phone. She knows that people might try to call her. They might be able to find out where she is by tracking her phone, so it gets turned off. She never uses her debit card again because there is no need to - that account is empty. In fact it was emptied on purpose - Maura did not want to be tracked.

 

[Tssiemer]

Did MM have a roommate ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fireweed]

No, she lived alone.

 

[scoops]

If Maura was only intending to be gone for a week, and she had already sent an email with an "excuse," then why would she leave her room in a state for someone else to find it? Maura left an email from Billy on top her packed boxes. This can only mean that Maura had the expectation at the time she left the note that someone else would wind up finding it. Would someone enter her dorm after a day? A week? It seems that at the very least she did not want UMass worrying about her for the next week (email to profs). Even Fred Murray's cell phone records show that he made no attempt to contact her on either Monday or Tuesday (until he heard about the accident). Conclusion: Maura's intent when she left Amherst that Monday was to be gone long enough for someone else to enter her dorm room. She was not getting away for a few days. No one would enter her dorm room in that period of time. In fact it seems that she did not WANT anyone entering her room for at least a week. She was getting away for a very long time - long enough that she knew her room would be searched and the email from Billy would be found.

My theory: Maura was going to call her father that Monday night from a hotel in Bartlett. She was not going to tell him she was in Bartlett. She came prepared to go over the accident forms. This way her father would be none the wiser that she was on the path to disappearing for good. It would take a few more days after that for Fred and the rest of the family to become worried enough to really start searching for her. She was also not going to call Billy, and if he attempted to call her and she did not answer, it would not be surprising since the last communication from her had stated that she did not feel like talking to anyone. In fact, this may have been something that the "private" and "introverted" Maura did sometimes.

The car wreck put a dent in these plans. Maura knew that the cops were coming and that they would find out that the car was registered to Fred. Would they contact him right away? For all she knows, they will. She cannot call her father now. She has to change her original plan. She cannot return to her family like this: she was supposed to be in school and she was not. She had been driving drunk (again) and had wrecked a car (again). She had wrecked a car that she was not really supposed to be driving. She calls no one because calling someone was not an option at this point. They will know that she packed up her room and clearly had no intention of returning to school. Maura evens turns off her cell phone. She knows that people might try to call her. They might be able to find out where she is by tracking her phone, so it gets turned off. She never uses her debit card again because there is no need to - that account is empty. In fact it was emptied on purpose - Maura did not want to be tracked.

I agree with some of your theory.

I think evidence clearly shows that Maura had her cell phone turned off, almost the majority of her trip to New Hampshire (with the exception of a couple of minutes late in the afternoon when she turned it on and checked for messages).

Had she kept her phone on after checking for messages, we would know exactly her route and where she went.

I believe her initial plan that Monday night was to rent a hotel room and with the alcohol and sentinmental items at her side, I think she would of crafted a final note or notes to leave in her car for specific people.

I think the accident forms were also purposefully picked up by her and left in her car (knowing that eventually they would get to her father who would have use for them).

I think at the crack of dawn (and probably drunk) Maura would've abandoned her car (but locked it up) and went into the mountains and eventually drink herself to death.

She did more than just scrambling around campus that Monday, she was also busy tying up loose ends like turning in her borrowed lab coat (wouldn't be needing that anymore), finishing cleaning up her dorm room (wouldn't need that room or her things anymore) and cleaning out her checking account.

One other thing to note ... and this is just something to ponder

that odd message she left her boyfriend that said "I love you more stud". Was that really an endearment reference to her boyfriend or was that a shot at him saying that she was more loyal than he was to their relationship?

 

[Fireweed]

I believe her initial plan that Monday night was to rent a hotel room and with the alcohol and sentinmental items at her side, I think she would of crafted a final note or notes to leave in her car for specific people.

I think the accident forms were also purposefully picked up by her and left in her car (knowing that eventually they would get to her father who would have use for them).

But why do that and leave the email from Billy at the dorm room? Why email profs that you will be gone for a week if your plan is to commit suicide that Tuesday? Surely you will not be missed if you take one day off school. And even if you are, they will not find you before you go through with the suicide anyway.

 

[scoops]

But why do that and leave the email from Billy at the dorm room? Why email profs that you will be gone for a week if your plan is to commit suicide that Tuesday? Surely you will not be missed if you take one day off school. And even if you are, they will not find you before you go through with the suicide anyway.

It wasn't neccesarily her lecture professors.

The email she sent went to the Nursing faculty as well as her employers.
Maura was in clinicals and assigned a specific location to where she went to clinicals.

If she missed just one clinical and one shift at one of her two part-time jobs, my bet is that people would be calling to locate her right away.

The week absence created by Maura as a result of a fictitious death, bought her time from those people "Checking up on her" and in the process alerting her family.

IMO, If Fred had gotten the heads up that Maura didn't show up for clinicals and work and made a phony email ... His first thought about where Maura headed off to would be the white mountains.