NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #14

[margol29]

For the heck of it lets just assume that one of these supposed 'suspicious' individuals that lived in these places did have something to do with it. If they did are they really going to be burying the body in their yard?? I seriously doubt it. They would put the body some place that wouldn't automatically make them or their family a suspect.

You would be surprised how many killers bury the bodies in their own backyards, basements and apartments. John Wayne Gacy buried over 15 bodies in the crawl space of his basement, Jeffrey Dahmer kept body parts in his freezer and refrigerator he even had a barrel of acid in his apartment to dissolve them. Belle Guiness a prolific serial killer in the 1800's buried all the bodies in her yard. It happens. I'm not saying that this is the case here but you just never know. The smart criminals don't usually get caught and the prisons are full of the dumb ones.

 

[PaulR]

You would be surprised how many killers bury the bodies in their own backyards, basements and apartments. John Wayne Gacy buried over 15 bodies in the crawl space of his basement, Jeffrey Dahmer kept body parts in his freezer and refrigerator he even had a barrel of acid in his apartment to dissolve them. Belle Guiness a prolific serial killer in the 1800's buried all the bodies in her yard. It happens. I'm not saying that this is the case here but you just never know. The smart criminals don't usually get caught and the prisons are full of the dumb ones.

Those murderers hid the bodies in their homes/properties because the alternative was getting caught trying to bury it somewhere else. Nobody cared about Gacy until his arrest and by that time it was too late for him to get rid of the evidence. Same thing with Dahmer, outside of the very brief encounter with the two cops.

Especially in a post-CSI/Forensic Files world, I think a lot of murderers know that it doesn't look very good if someone find a body on your land, and that no lawyer will get you out of that. They only have to look at Gacy and Dahmer.

If Maura was murdered by a local, they've had well over a decade to move the body within a large rural area, and presumably they would know good spots (off the beaten path, not an area traversed by hikers/hunters, etc.) It's not like there is a prime suspect whose home the police have been watching.

Freleng having a and already talking about having more is sketchy to me. She seems to think this is a good spot to scan, and if she's right, she'll find the body. Then you don't need a second fundraiser. But she's already talking about the next place she wants to search. She's either not all that confident in where she's scanning, or she and GB Geotechnics are in cohoots to get cash and publicity.

 

[sony12]

Freleng having a and already talking about having more is sketchy to me. She seems to think this is a good spot to scan, and if she's right, she'll find the body. Then you don't need a second fundraiser. But she's already talking about the next place she wants to search. She's either not all that confident in where she's scanning, or she and GB Geotechnics are in cohoots to get cash and publicity.

Yep it definitely is sketchy and I do think it raises some red flags as to why Freleng continues to be involved in this case. Freleng has only been out of college for a couple years (I think it said she graduated from grad school in late 2015) and I believe the oxygen program has been the only thing of significance that she has done in her chosen field since she has left school. So it would make sense for her to latch on to the one thing she has in her pocket that would bring her exposure. From a business standpoint there isn't anything wrong with that and doing such things is how lots of people build their resumes. But when the thing the said person is using to get exposure is a missing persons case it does make you wonder if she is in it more for herself than the good of the case.

Ideally Fred Murray probably wouldn't want to have anything to do with a person like Maggie Freleng ( a young person trying to build up their own career) but he is probably at a point where he has to take whatever he can get (as a lot of more established people in the field probably view this as something that would go nowhere).

I do think though one of the reasons Fred is a 100% going with this idea that she was taken by a local dirtbag is that he is trying to protect his family and the image of Maura. We know now that Maura was quite a bit more shady than the original reports of the case stated. If it was widely known what she was really like people would begin looking into her lifestyle (which could potentially bring out some dark stuff) and would also make people question the individuals that were in Maura's life all that much more.

 

[PaulR]

Ideally Fred Murray probably wouldn't want to have anything to do with a person like Maggie Freleng ( a young person trying to build up their own career) but he is probably at a point where he has to take whatever he can get (as a lot of more established people in the field probably view this as something that would go nowhere).

I do think though one of the reasons Fred is a 100% going with this idea that she was taken by a local dirtbag is that he is trying to protect his family and the image of Maura. We know now that Maura was quite a bit more shady than the original reports of the case stated. If it was widely known what she was really like people would begin looking into her lifestyle (which could potentially bring out some dark stuff) and would also make people question the individuals that were in Maura's life all that much more.

Well, look at it from the point of view of a father whose daughter has vanished. First, you may latch onto anything. Long shot ground radar? Psychics? Private Investigators who think she's overseas and will find her as long as you pay their per diem/first class airfare tickets? I can't blame him.

Second, there are three possibilities for what happened to Maura. One is that she is died due to exposure after the car crash. One is that she voluntarily vanished. The last is that someone abducted her and either she is still alive or is dead. There may be others but these are the main ones that get discussed. A voluntary disappearance would mean a complete rejection of her friends and family; that would be very hard to accept as a family member, and certainly hard to do after 9/11 when it stopped being possible to just find a dead child and file for a social security number. Death due to exposure would be unpleasant and effectively her fault because she chose to run instead of staying with the vehicle and dealing with the consequences of what was likely a DUI (perhaps her second.) Her being abducted, while the worst for Maura, would alleviate her of any responsibility for what happened afterwards. She would forever - to Fred at least - be a good girl who was victimized just as she was starting her life.

He may well be a victim of someone who is trying to tell him what he wants to hear.

I agree 100% that Maura was shadier than initial reports indicated, and I think this is important because of what her mindset would have been that night. This was her second car crash, and I think she was drunk when she crashed his car the day before. Throw in the credit card fraud charges and she would have been in a lot of trouble.

 

[sony12]

Maura definitely did have a lot of motivation to disappear at least for the short term. And that may have been exactly what she did but something just happened to her while she was away. It's entirely possible I suppose that Maura's body has already been found but has been labeled as a Jane Doe.

Here is a video I found just scrolling through youtube

Of course absolutely nothing connects the two cases other than the youtuber raising the question (unless you want to count that they had the same color of hair) but it does show her being some Jane Doe out there is possible (as all Jane Doe's did have a real name).

 

[bluesneakers]

Maura definitely did have a lot of motivation to disappear at least for the short term. And that may have been exactly what she did but something just happened to her while she was away. It's entirely possible I suppose that Maura's body has already been found but has been labeled as a Jane Doe.

Here is a video I found just scrolling through youtube

Of course absolutely nothing connects the two cases other than the youtuber raising the question (unless you want to count that they had the same color of hair) but it does show her being some Jane Doe out there is possible (as all Jane Doe's did have a real name).

Do you know if this Jane Doe has a thread here?

 

[sony12]

Do you know if this Jane Doe has a thread here?

Don't know. If there is a specific Jane Doe section I guess we could search for it. This particular Jane Doe was found in July 2005 in the woods by Baltimore and died presumably of a drug overdose. They said she was likely dead a month prior to her being found. In the video posted the police said she would have been between the ages of 15 and 30 and weighed between 100 and 140 pounds and was between 5 foot and 5'8''.

I myself don't search through the site a great deal so don't know exactly everything it has. I usually just look for stories of missing persons off of youtube and if I find one specifically interesting I'll come on here and post about it.

 

[bluesneakers]

I'll search around.

 

[sony12]

I'll search around.

Cool, thanks.

 

[bluesneakers]

I think this is her:

MD - MD - Brooklyn, WhtFem Skeletal 21UFMD, 19-23, in woods, Jul'05

 

[Hazelnutty]

Maura definitely did have a lot of motivation to disappear at least for the short term. And that may have been exactly what she did but something just happened to her while she was away. It's entirely possible I suppose that Maura's body has already been found but has been labeled as a Jane Doe.

Here is a video I found just scrolling through youtube

Of course absolutely nothing connects the two cases other than the youtuber raising the question (unless you want to count that they had the same color of hair) but it does show her being some Jane Doe out there is possible (as all Jane Doe's did have a real name).

This is so interesting.

What if her remains were discovered somewhere , sometime in the past. And they sit somewhere waiting on DNA.

If she had no id and wasn't near the crash site, or even the same state.... what if?

 

[sony12]

I think this is her:

MD - MD - Brooklyn, WhtFem Skeletal 21UFMD, 19-23, in woods, Jul'05

Thanks. Looks like Maura is on the rule out list for this particular Jane Doe but doesn't mean she couldn't be some other Jane Doe. Probably just as good of a chance (if not better chance) for that being the situation than it is that her body is somewhere in the vicinity of the crash site.

 

[PaulR]

This is so interesting.

What if her remains were discovered somewhere , sometime in the past. And they sit somewhere waiting on DNA.

If she had no id and wasn't near the crash site, or even the same state.... what if?

Could be. I'd like to think that someone as high profile as Maura has a lot of people here and at other sites who'd recognize an UID who resembled Maura and bring it to the attention of the authorities, but that may not be the case depending on the circumstances.

 

[sony12]

Is there an easier way to search the unidentified sections? Way to try to create matches of people who could potentially be Maura? Because on this site there are almost a 150 pages of unidentified and there is no good way to do a search (at least as far as I can tell). Went to the Doe network and it seems to be an even bigger mess.

 

[PaulR]

Is there an easier way to search the unidentified sections? Way to try to create matches of people who could potentially be Maura? Because on this site there are almost a 150 pages of unidentified and there is no good way to do a search (at least as far as I can tell). Went to the Doe network and it seems to be an even bigger mess.

The new search at Namus is pretty good: Unidentified Person Search

Some of these unidentifieds may have unknown race/weight/etc. - I tried entering a lot of specifics about Maura (age, weight, hair color, etc.) and nothing turned up.

 

[Caffeine]

As previously mentioned, I think her body being on someone's property would be the most likely scenario here. The conditions at the time of her disappearance were not favorable to just go and dumped her somewhere. Bodies of water, the soil...all frozen. Not an easy obstacle to overcome while looking over your shoulder on public land.

Private property would be more advantageous. You have time and privacy on your side. Unlike public land, you'd need a search warrant and often times luck to come across clues, especially if the body was encased in cement, burned etc. Not to be too morbid but there's many ways to do this, especially when police need probable cause and a warrant to even begin looking.

In light of recent talk about RF, I can certainly understand why police looked at him. If even some of the things he allegedly said are true, there's no question he needed a close look from LE.

He definitely fits the profile of someone who had the means and opportunity to do something like this. He was a single guy, lived alone right by the crash site. He could have easily observed Maura passing by, be it in his house or on foot. He had plenty of land and privacy to meticulously cover up any wrong doings.

He allegedly claimed two things I found very interesting. First, he claimed to have seen Maura on foot while he was driving a fair distance from his home and the accident site.

Recently, one of the NH league of investigators claimed RF told police he had sex with Maura, which was unheard of until now.

There's two ways to look at this: this guy is absolutely out of his mind and has consistently lied to LE, making some startling claims.

Or he's trying very hard to place Maura away from his house and establishing there was sexual contact of some kind between them in case she is found. To me that's pretty fishy.

However, a lot of this is simply hearsay and/or second hand information, so it's hard to truly know what to make of it. We do know there's been police contact for sure, so it's hard to say if these are the musings of the local village idiot or this is a truly viable suspect.

 

[sony12]

However, a lot of this is simply hearsay and/or second hand information, so it's hard to truly know what to make of it. We do know there's been police contact for sure, so it's hard to say if these are the musings of the local village idiot or this is a truly viable suspect.

This is by far the most significant thing you could have written. A lot of the info about the case that some consider to be fact is just rumors built up over the years by amateur investigators. The fact that LE would have questioned him isn't any big deal as they would have questioned almost everyone within the vicinity of the crash. Whatever happened the police don't seem to think there is strong enough evidence to warrant further investigation towards people located close to the crash site.

 

[sony12]

Here is a youtube video interviewing one of the private investigators (I believe he is the one that sent them to the recent place where they did a dig at).

Anyways he has virtually no solid evidence whatsoever. His biggest lead towards RF comes from a psychic. Everything else is pure theorizing on his part.

Biggest thing you can take away from the video is that it looks like the A-Frame house has been completely ruled out by law enforcement.

 

[Dan Cooper]

Sorry, but who is RF?

 

[sony12]

Sorry, but who is RF?

He is one of the people that lived around the area at the time. He is the one that said that they saw Maura later that night about five miles down the road. The P.I. that is in cahoots with Maggie Freleng right now is trying to hone in on him as a suspect.

Posters aren't allowed to say the names of people of interest on this site so that is why they are just giving the initials.