NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 #15

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BeginnerSleuther said:
I think you missed my point. It has nothing to do with her capability. There is logistically no way for someone to walk or run on those roads in February. The same ice that caused the crash would have rendered her unable to run. Some of these roads are closed to driving this time of year due to the icy conditions. She had to have had special shoes - either hiking/studded boots or snow shoes (or ice skates) in order to get 20 miles on foot. It is not possible otherwise. Alternatively, she would have had to cross country ski if not hike.

Yes, it is possible to run/walk that distance with appropriate clothing/gear and that includes footwear. There's no indication Maura had that the gear. If she didn't, she would not make it 20 miles. You can't just put on regular walking shoes and expect to walk across ice standing upright or in 5 feet of snow, especially in the forest at night. She would have died long before she got to Loon if she tried such an endeavor.
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I agree. In some reports by police, it mentions she was possibly intoxicated as well, and on top of the crash, there is very little possibility she walked or ran all that distance, experienced runner or not.
 
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BeginnerSleuther said:
I think you missed my point. It has nothing to do with her capability. There is logistically no way for someone to walk or run on those roads in February. The same ice that caused the crash would have rendered her unable to run. Some of these roads are closed to driving this time of year due to the icy conditions. She had to have had special shoes - either hiking/studded boots or snow shoes (or ice skates) in order to get 20 miles on foot. It is not possible otherwise. Alternatively, she would have had to cross country ski if not hike.

Yes, it is possible to run/walk that distance with appropriate clothing/gear and that includes footwear. There's no indication Maura had that the gear. If she didn't, she would not make it 20 miles. You can't just put on regular walking shoes and expect to walk across ice standing upright or in 5 feet of snow, especially in the forest at night. She would have died long before she got to Loon if she tried such an endeavor.
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I agree. Even if you gave her an extra few miles, there’s no way that is happening in NH in February. JMO.
 
People can walk long distances comfortably in severe conditions when dressed appropriately. As a student in Montreal, I walked everywhere. From late October through early April, I wore long johns under my pants every day, a turtleneck and a wool sweater, two pairs of socks, boots specifically for ice and snow, down-filled leather mittens, wool hat, scarf, parka with a hood.

Now I live in northern New England. I don't need to dress like that every day because I am not walking for hours in the winter. People don't dress for winter survival when traveling in a car. Instead I keep an old parka, boots and a blanket in the trunk in case of an emergency.

I agree with the WSers who say road conditions and inadequate clothing mean Maura could not have made it so far. I come to that conclusion from another perspective: the time between sightings.

Maura may have been wearing a parka in the car. She could have had gloves and a hat handy. But she wouldn't have been wearing ski pants or long johns while driving. It'd be too uncomfortable. To me, the time between sightings rules out Maura being dressed warmly enough to walk or run as far away as the bones were found. There simply wasn't enough time for Maura to have located ski pants, removed her boots, pulled on the ski pants, put the boots back on, grabbed a hat and gloves, and disappear into the dark. Long johns would've taken even longer and been even more difficult to manage hastily inside a vehicle. IMO there'd be indications that she rummaged through her bags in dim lighting to find things and struggled to get dressed. As far as I know, there is no evidence of that.
 
I saw somewhere that these fragments were found along the Kancamagus lift line. The resort has been there since the 1960's.

I am a fairly experienced skiier. I've been to several mountains in New York, Vermont, and NH, but not this one.

These resorts typically have a lot of equipment. Such as back hoes, excavators, groomers, snowmobiles, and tractors. They also have vegetation management equipment. Chipper / shredders, saws and the like.

If you havent seen a mountian when they have the snow making equipment running at nighttime, it's quite a sight. You could have a marching band standing on the mountian, and you wouldn't see it from the base.

I'm just speculating here. But sometimes when your riding a lift, you can spot random equipment along the trails.

I'm speculating here, but I can totally see how someone with access to all of this could get the idea to dispose of a body there.

There are plenty of missing persons forums on WS where it's believed that bodies are concealed at construction sites. Either buried, or encased in concrete, or things of that nature. If you think about it, a ski mountian is really just one big construction site. Constantly grooming, and making snow.
 
Eddie99 said:
I saw somewhere that these fragments were found along the Kancamagus lift line. The resort has been there since the 1960's.

I am a fairly experienced skiier. I've been to several mountains in New York, Vermont, and NH, but not this one.

These resorts typically have a lot of equipment. Such as back hoes, excavators, groomers, snowmobiles, and tractors. They also have vegetation management equipment. Chipper / shredders, saws and the like.

If you havent seen a mountian when they have the snow making equipment running at nighttime, it's quite a sight. You could have a marching band standing on the mountian, and you wouldn't see it from the base.

I'm just speculating here. But sometimes when your riding a lift, you can spot random equipment along the trails.

I'm speculating here, but I can totally see how someone with access to all of this could get the idea to dispose of a body there.

There are plenty of missing persons forums on WS where it's believed that bodies are concealed at construction sites. Either buried, or encased in concrete, or things of that nature. If you think about it, a ski mountian is really just one big construction site. Constantly grooming, and making snow.
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Again: The ground at Loon is frozen in February. Digging a hole would be a big project and would make a big mess. And precisely because there would be groomers and snowmakers and others moving around the slopes (not to mention skiers), it would be pretty much impossible to bury something there in February without immediately attracting notice. (P.S.: I used to be a lift attendant and snowmaker at Loon.)
 
well I think we go too far as a poster pointed out earlier..it has not been said what she was buried in..could be in buried in the debris they were clearing where they were digging..in other words buried but not in the ground.

maybe they could find a jaw/teeth and identify that way? this is going to be a long wait. mOO
 
In the following years there will be a docu series made about how the Vikings established a colony in present day New Hampshire all because of what they will find at Loon.

It'd be cool if it was Maura to put this case to bed. But it'd also be cool if it were the Vikings.
 
Hi there fellow sleuths,

I am wondering a few things and maybe some of you have already asked that question. But has police or Renner or anybody else ever checked events in the area during that time? Could there have been anything going on where Maura might have travelled to? I am aware that it is pretty hard to piece together 20 years on. But maybe there was some information out there?

The other question I had is this. I lived in a dorm myself for quite some time. So I was wondering if anybody had seen her packing up her room. Because I could literally hear my neighbor sneeze or cough through the walls. Granted that not every building is the same. But I am just wondering that. Thanks so much
 
one of the ideas I liked from one of the documentaries on this case, was the idea that she never actually unpacked those books to begin with from when she moved in..hence she was never actually packing up her room. mOO
 
minazoe said:
one of the ideas I liked from one of the documentaries on this case, was the idea that she never actually unpacked those books to begin with from when she moved in..hence she was never actually packing up her room. mOO
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I always thought February was a weird time to still not be unpacked but it’s a good theory and definitely possible of course.
 
I just did a rewatch of the Disappeared episode for Maura. One thing was mentioned that I forgot about. The voice mail her boyfriend received the next day. The one with the breathing and sobbing sounds. I realize it was made with a calling card but you would think it would still be traceable to a location. Too bad he had to let it go to VM.
 
margol29 said:
I just did a rewatch of the Disappeared episode for Maura. One thing was mentioned that I forgot about. The voice mail her boyfriend received the next day. The one with the breathing and sobbing sounds. I realize it was made with a calling card but you would think it would still be traceable to a location. Too bad he had to let it go to VM.
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weird I have never heard of this voicemail..I must rewatch this altho maybe I haven't seen it!
 
carolann0308 said:
We always kept our used text books in a box, we would sell them back to the school book store if we needed extra cash. I have boxes in my basement I haven't opened since we moved here 11 years ago.
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OT: always sold mine on the way back from the final -- if another edition is released, that used book is a doorstop.

Exception -- textbook for classes only offered Fall semester or Spring semester.

And regarding unpacking, it was suggested at some point that if Maura was starting clinicals, she might be moving to do that in a facility in another town/city.

Awaiting word on those bone fragments....

jmho ymmv lrr
 
margol29 said:
I just did a rewatch of the Disappeared episode for Maura. One thing was mentioned that I forgot about. The voice mail her boyfriend received the next day. The one with the breathing and sobbing sounds. I realize it was made with a calling card but you would think it would still be traceable to a location. Too bad he had to let it go to VM.
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I think that's the call that was eventually determined to be from Red Cross, not Maura with a calling card, and there was no sobbing (even though whatever could be heard was somehow misinterpreted that way at the time).
 
Kaie said:
I think that's the call that was eventually determined to be from Red Cross, not Maura with a calling card, and there was no sobbing (even though whatever could be heard was somehow misinterpreted that way at the time).
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I’ve definitely heard Red Cross and calling card many times, which is odd.
 
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