Several? Nothing is 100% but police use dogs for various reason from sniffing out drugs, scent dogs to follow a human trail and cadaver for human remains. There are plenty of studies that prove their reliability. Maura's dad was told years ago that Maura could be there based on a tip. Two dogs in the same exact spot is not a coincidence. There only reason he got the chance to go there was the new owners let him. If she was there she's long gone.
NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 #15
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Several? Nothing is 100% but police use dogs for various reason from sniffing out drugs, scent dogs to follow a human trail and cadaver for human remains. There are plenty of studies that prove their reliability. Maura's dad was told years ago that Maura could be there based on a tip. Two dogs in the same exact spot is not a coincidence. There only reason he got the chance to go there was the new owners let him. If she was there she's long gone.
A lot of the tips Maura's dad were getting were based on nothing more than pure speculation by people. Things along the line of someone showing him a knife and saying that they think this was the knife their brother used to kill Maura. And these people in this particular house seem weird so you better check that out......things like that.
That whole thing from last spring was brought about because two cadaver dogs hit the same spot. They dug it up and nothing was there. Police have used cadaver dogs over the area for the past sixteen years and they never came up with anything.
It's all speculation and none of what you use as an example has anything to do and in no way discredits the two cadaver dogs hitting on the same spot. The Murray family was supposedly told that the dogs hit on a dead rat. IF that's the case it's a ridiculous statement and shows how naive that person is about cadaver dogs.
You state that police have used cadaver dogs "over that area for the past sixteen years" Are you implying that they are reliable? You said in another post that "And Cadaver dogs are never that reliable". Never? Then why use an example of cadaver dogs as being reliable when it comes to try to only proving your point? When you say "that area" what area are you talking about? To my knowledge that basement had not been searched prior to 2019?
THe police have stated they already searched that area with dogs previously. When police have already searched the area resources would be better spent trying to find other areas to search than to continue to go after the same houses that have already been searched.
The biggest problem with this case is that if they aren't searching the area right around the crash than they don't have a clue where to search. Which is why it would be good to dig into Maura's life and try to find as many associates to her as you can so you could try to get an idea of where exactly she may have been headed to in that area. There is someone out there that likely has some clue what she was doing in that area. They just need to find them and try to get the truth out of them.
Her family was all in an entirely different state when she disappeared. Her friends at Umass is who should be looked at for information.
Her sister claims she might have gone there to pay a ticket. It's possible I guess but why buy all that liquor. It was never found so I'm assuming she took it with her. Can only imagine if she did go to a house and had all that liquor with her or even if she took a ride and someone got the wrong impression of her.
Don't really buy the idea that she was going up there to pay any ticket or to deal with any issue from her incident where she got caught driving a 100mph. For starters she would have to have virtually zero common sense to go put alcohol in her vehicle while she was going on a trip to deal with her reckless driving episodes. Also the route she was taking was leading her more into Vermont than New Hampshire and the places she called were in Vermont. So for all intents and purposes New Hampshire didn't seem to be her official destination. I think a far more likely scenario was that she was simply going to get away from her problems.
She likely took a lot of it with her when she left her car. She was still probably planning on getting to wherever she was going whether that meant in spending time alone or meeting people at a location. So she would still want her alcohol with her.
Judging by the route she was taking and the locations she called before she left she very well may have been trying to reach Canada or at the least just the general area of northern New Hampshire and Vermont.
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PezCandy
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So I was watching the tv show “Medium” and I missed part of the episode so I googled to figure out what happened that I missed, then I found out that Allison is an actual person (“psychic”) and she did something on the “Missing Maura Murray” podcast and was talking about MM being buried under a bridge where people used to go to party. Now I’m not sure if it’s been discussed and I’m not looking to get bashed either, I just thought it was odd. I don’t know much about how accurate psychics or all that mumbo jumbo, but I’m wondering if the area that the “psychic” seen had been investigated? Do you guys know anything about that? It was my first time hearing about that so just wanted some input.
How 'psychics' generally operate is they just give very vague descriptions and allow the people they are talking to to fill in the blanks for themselves. Saying someone is 'under a bridge where people used to go party' is pretty much using that exact strategy. There are probably thousands upon thousands of areas that would fit that description. Hell when I was in college a popular place that us kids used to go drinking was in the country by an old bridge and we would stay out there telling each other stories about Hatchet Lady and if we drank enough we might really start thinking that Hatchet Lady found us and was chasing us down.
If Maura would someday be found by a bridge where people used to party then the psychic can always say 'they were right' and if she isn't found in a place like that then people will just forget what the psychic ever said.
PezCandy
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I’m pretty skeptical when it comes to so called “psychics”, my MIL swears that she’s a psychic but I’m pretty sure she’s delusional as she only says oddball things like that when she’s using.. plus she’s never been right in her “visions”. It’s all delusion mixed with paranoia. And I feel that if psychics were legit then there would be a lot more solved cases and unidentifiable people identified.
I thought it was strange when I seen that there were psychics all over MMs case, while sleuthing I even seen a whole website (I can’t remember the website name) dedicated to missing person cases and it was ran by “psychics”, the main cases I seen on it were about MM and Brianna Maitland and them being abducted by the same people.
I couldn’t even finish reading about it cuz my eyes were about to roll outta my head. while I do see the similarities between MM and BM cases I kind of doubt that they are linked.
Yeah I'm with you on this one. Of course it was plain dumb from the start to even go in the direction, maybe that's why she took a more secluded route.
Speaking of Canada, someone on that street had ties to Canada at one point. I have to wonder if anyone traveled there on a frequent basis. I know James Renner was convinced at one point she went to CA but personally I was never a big fan of that theory.
ACG2x
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Listened to the True Crime Garage podcast interview between the Captain & Maura's sister Julie. Overall a really good interview. TCG guys always do a fantastic job of covering all angles of a missing person or criminal case and stay markedly unbiased. A few things rang clear to me from that:
Now consider that she had multiple containers of alcohol in her vehicle and was likely either intoxicated or had a few drinks. She goes around the hairpin turn in slick conditions and wrecks again. The bus driver stops and asks if he should call PD. She is scared to death of that because she knows they'll find the containers, her DUI'ing and the fact that she had a suspended license in NH. She lies to the bus driver and says she already called AAA when she didn't however she (correctly) assumes the bus driver will probably call the PD given the state of her and the car.
Add in the emotional distress and crash trauma she was already under and likely influence of alcohol and she decides to run, thinking if she can just get somewhere for the night or enough to sober up, she can't be charged with anything from the crash.
From there is where it gets fuzzy however I believe there are two scenarios:
1) - (more likely) She started up the highway on foot and decided to either cut through/hide in/go into the woods surrounding the road to avoid detection by LE because then she'd have to submit to toxicology testing and succumbed to the elements and died of exposure.
2) - (less likely) In the short period she was traveling on foot, she accepted a ride from the wrong person who ultimately killed her.
Very interesting interview, albeit slanted towards Maura's better qualities but that's what you'd expect from a blood relative. Kudos again to TCG for another solid production.
- The Murray family was extremely close and seemed to all genuinely love/care for each other. Julie came off as well-spoken and intelligent.
- However, her family continues to look at MM through rose-colored glasses, glossing over the repeated self-destructive behavior she exhibited in the months leading up to her disappearance. At one point when talking about MM using stolen cc's to buy pizza and other items, she made the comment that "lots of people" were doing it and all of us did dumb stuff in college. Same for when talking about her first accident when she got brought back to Fred's hotel and likely was intoxicated saying at UMass, "half the student population" was probably drunk on Saturday night. I respect the heck out of her for doing the interview, but it sounds like many of Fred's comments as classic enabler behavior.
- When talking about her shoplifting from the West Point store/commissary, Julie didn't know why she would do that and thought she accidentally put the lip gloss in her pocket. Julie mentions MM "had the money to pay for it". I don't really accept that because people who exhibit self-destructive behavior often steal for the thrill of stealing. Even a $0.75 pack of gum you could easily buy. It's the high you get from doing it that matters, not the object being stolen.
- The family seems unwilling to accept that MM had some serious personal and potential mental health issues. Or, they know but they don't want to tarnish her memory by coming out and saying yeah she was a drunk. I am pained for them because I really believe the girl needed professional help.
- The searches on her computer for pregnancy terms were for a homework assignment that she was working on for that exact thing that week in class. Julie said the idea MM was pregnant was absurd. She was on birth control at the time which would explain the pack that was in the car.
- Any assertion that Fred orchestrated her disappearance is utterly ridiculous. Julie brought up if Fred did that, why would he be constantly lobbying the FBI to release case files & records and making noise by appearing publicly to keep MM's name in the news. Captain agreed that you have to make a ton of mental leaps to get there.
- Had never heard this before but heard what I feel is the most plausible explanation for her being en route to New Hampshire. Several weeks earlier, MM had gotten a speeding ticket for going ridiculously fast. Julie thought it was something like 99 in a 55. Her license was suspended (per Julie) in NH and wouldn't be reinstated unless she appeared in person before a judge and paid a fine.
Now consider that she had multiple containers of alcohol in her vehicle and was likely either intoxicated or had a few drinks. She goes around the hairpin turn in slick conditions and wrecks again. The bus driver stops and asks if he should call PD. She is scared to death of that because she knows they'll find the containers, her DUI'ing and the fact that she had a suspended license in NH. She lies to the bus driver and says she already called AAA when she didn't however she (correctly) assumes the bus driver will probably call the PD given the state of her and the car.
Add in the emotional distress and crash trauma she was already under and likely influence of alcohol and she decides to run, thinking if she can just get somewhere for the night or enough to sober up, she can't be charged with anything from the crash.
From there is where it gets fuzzy however I believe there are two scenarios:
1) - (more likely) She started up the highway on foot and decided to either cut through/hide in/go into the woods surrounding the road to avoid detection by LE because then she'd have to submit to toxicology testing and succumbed to the elements and died of exposure.
2) - (less likely) In the short period she was traveling on foot, she accepted a ride from the wrong person who ultimately killed her.
Very interesting interview, albeit slanted towards Maura's better qualities but that's what you'd expect from a blood relative. Kudos again to TCG for another solid production.
PezCandy
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thanks for posting this! I like podcasts but I can never get my ADD to focus lol so the recaps help
So maura bought a substantial amount of alcohol, emptied out her bank account and was on her way to pay a fine that had her license suspended in NH. I guess her plan was to drive up to the police station station driving a car she wasn’t allowed to drive with a bunch of alcohol and she was most likely drinking. The fine most likely could have been paid through the mail so I’m thinking this isn’t the reason she was there. I’m really starting to wonder what she was thinking taking a chance like that. A small part of me even though very small wonders if Maura was contemplating running away even if it wasn’t permanent and this last wreck was the straw that broke the camels back. Of course imo this would mean she was meeting someone which I always thought was an option then I recently changed my mind and now after hearing this news I’m more confused that ever. She had 2 wrecks, one speeding ticket and 2 theft charges all within a short period of time although the one at school was some time before these other 3. Maura was a smart girl who was driven when she wanted to succeed at something. What possessed her to do these things? Oh and I want to add, if Maura had to appear before a judge to pay her fine then there would have been a court date. Just a guess but wouldn’t this hearing date been brought to the families attention? She left the scene of an accident and was driving with a suspended license and possibly drinking and driving, so why wasn’t she charged with a crime? One has to wonder how much more to this story we don’t know. Don’t think for a second that the police or a judge wouldn’t ask her how she got there. Maura had to be smart enough not to drive up to a police station to pay a fine without a license. Of course if she was planning on meeting someone that night then this person could have drove her there the next day.
ACG2x
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Per her sister, she had to appear in NH in person to pay the fine due to how far over the limit she was cited for driving. There are some states that do this - minor infractions can be paid by mail but large overages require an in person appearance.
Traffic court isn’t like regular court either. Speaking from experience as I used to drive wayyyyy too fast, you show up with a bunch of other random people and get called before the magistrate or judge one by one. He/she does a quick 1 min. review of your case, you say whatever and answer some basic ?’s and you enter a plea. If it’s not guilty, judge sets a trial date which almost never happens.
If you plead guilty, judge gives you some words and you get sentenced. Usually it’s a big fine and/or have to take a defensive driving course. I couldn’t find the specific traffic laws in place in NH at the time. However if you DON’T appear, depending on the state they can issue a warrant, suspend your license or both.
The alcohol in the car I believe was a byproduct of the circumstances in MM’s life - aka she was a functioning alcoholic who had displayed numerous self-destructive behaviors. Someone in that frame of mind doesn’t think like you or I. They will take alcohol with them on a trip to traffic court, to the parking lot before church on Sunday, wherever. It’s a drug that has power over them.
To me, it’s completely plausible that MM would have alcohol with her just because wherever she was driving. Like I said, I believe the girl needed significant professional help and was deeply troubled. Just sad her story had to end like it likely did.
Traffic court isn’t like regular court either. Speaking from experience as I used to drive wayyyyy too fast, you show up with a bunch of other random people and get called before the magistrate or judge one by one. He/she does a quick 1 min. review of your case, you say whatever and answer some basic ?’s and you enter a plea. If it’s not guilty, judge sets a trial date which almost never happens.
If you plead guilty, judge gives you some words and you get sentenced. Usually it’s a big fine and/or have to take a defensive driving course. I couldn’t find the specific traffic laws in place in NH at the time. However if you DON’T appear, depending on the state they can issue a warrant, suspend your license or both.
The alcohol in the car I believe was a byproduct of the circumstances in MM’s life - aka she was a functioning alcoholic who had displayed numerous self-destructive behaviors. Someone in that frame of mind doesn’t think like you or I. They will take alcohol with them on a trip to traffic court, to the parking lot before church on Sunday, wherever. It’s a drug that has power over them.
To me, it’s completely plausible that MM would have alcohol with her just because wherever she was driving. Like I said, I believe the girl needed significant professional help and was deeply troubled. Just sad her story had to end like it likely did.
Guys I don't buy the idea that she was going up there to pay any fine at all. For starters there is a good chance she would have told someone she was doing that. Her dad was there just a couple days prior and he would have likely known about it (from the interview it doesn't appear that it was something the family wasn't aware of). Secondly I don't care who you are or how much you like to drink you just have to be an absolute idiot to even put the temptation of alcohol in your car while you are going on a trip to take care of issues caused by reckless driving habits. That is something I would have been smart enough to know when I was like 15 and I probably drank just as much when I was in school as Maura did but I was just more responsible about how I handled the alcohol. When it all comes down to it if she was going up there to deal with her tickets I don't think that would be a situation nobody would know about and I don't care how dumb Maura was you would have to be a whole 'nother level of dumb to put alcohol in your car while you were going on that trip.
Also if you look at the map route 112 was pretty close to being in the direction of all the places that she called prior to her leaving. I think she merely was just trying to get away from her life at least for a little while and that would be a situation that would make sense for her not to tell anyone that we know of where she was going.
And I honestly thought the interview was rather poorly done to be honest. The guy doing the interview is absolutely painful to listen to with his expressionless and monotone voice he has going on. And I realize Maura was Julie's sister but if Julie is going to try to give outs for Maura by downplaying her shoplifting and credit card fraud incidents by saying things like 'lots of people at that age do it' then I don't think she needs to be giving anymore interviews. Sure that kind of thing is a little more common amongst college crowds than it is in the real world but it doesn't make it any less bad. The kids that did that kind of thing when I was in school were still viewed as absolute 'scum' by a lot of their peers. THe only time it was ever ok for people to just take things was if roommates or friends had a general understanding that they shared stuff.
THe fact that Maura was doing those things is still a giant red flag on her character even if it is more common for those things to happen while you are in college.
Also if you look at the map route 112 was pretty close to being in the direction of all the places that she called prior to her leaving. I think she merely was just trying to get away from her life at least for a little while and that would be a situation that would make sense for her not to tell anyone that we know of where she was going.
And I honestly thought the interview was rather poorly done to be honest. The guy doing the interview is absolutely painful to listen to with his expressionless and monotone voice he has going on. And I realize Maura was Julie's sister but if Julie is going to try to give outs for Maura by downplaying her shoplifting and credit card fraud incidents by saying things like 'lots of people at that age do it' then I don't think she needs to be giving anymore interviews. Sure that kind of thing is a little more common amongst college crowds than it is in the real world but it doesn't make it any less bad. The kids that did that kind of thing when I was in school were still viewed as absolute 'scum' by a lot of their peers. THe only time it was ever ok for people to just take things was if roommates or friends had a general understanding that they shared stuff.
THe fact that Maura was doing those things is still a giant red flag on her character even if it is more common for those things to happen while you are in college.