NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

[BillNH]

I think over time he changed his mind, because he may have felt it was unlikely that she wouldn't contact anyone. I'm sure he knew she was upset, because of what happened in Amherst. So he wasn't surprised that she may have had an emotional breakdown of some sort. This is where the "Squaw walk" talk came in. She could have committed suicide by staying out in the cold while drinking alcohol, but I don't believe she went up to NH to commit suicide. In other words, I think it is possible she felt suicidal after the 2nd accident.

JMO

I think it was less than a week after she disappeared when he started talking about a local dirtbag. I also believe that it would be hard for Fred or anyone in her family to think she would not at least contact "them" if she was ok, but it was only a few days and to me many of them are very self centered. If she was trying to get away from them (the family) badly enough, she wouldnt want to talk to them. She also may have been in physical danger and her whereabouts known to any of them could put her in jeapordy. I think Fred saw investigators taking less interest in her case believing it was a suicide or walkaway, and he needed to get the focus back on the search, and that's why he changed his story. JMO

 

[OldSteve]

Accepting a ride and continuing on to Canada or elsewhere is just as simple. So why foul play?

Yes, the act of accepting a ride either way is equally simple... but would think if she had continued on, she would have been spotted, or later on would have a change of heart and contact someone in her family...

She might not have accepted a ride, but was struck by a car passing by on purpose or by accident and taken that way...

From cases I've followed, when a gal just vanishes into thin air, foul play is usually the cause... suicides and accidental deaths tend to be found...

 

[BillNH]

The thing is, what evidence would someone expect if she met with foul play by someone picking her up/her grabbing a ride with a stranger? I can't think of any evidence that would suggest that so a lack of evidence doesn't mean anything.

You are correct that a lack of evidence doesn't mean anything, except that all options are still open as to a theory. So why do people pick foul play as a theory?

 

[MysteryMaven]

I agree with you. I don't think Maura ever left the White Mountains.

I don't think she did either, but whether it was suicide, foul play, or accident, I don't know.
I just don't see the plausibility of her making it to Canada after the accident. She was buzzed, probably disoriented, cold, tired, and upset. I don't see how she could hitchhike, somehow make it to Canada with no money, and "start a new life". There just isn't any evidence that a mystery person was helping her either. There would most likely be electronic or phone evidence that would have been investigated by now.
AFAIK, there has been no activity on her bank accounts, phone, or soc. number. If I'm wrong on this, let me know.
If Maura Murray is found living a new existence somewhere, I'll eat my hat! I just don't buy into it. Sadly, I don't think she lived much longer after the accident.

 

[Captain_Khan]

I actually think there is quite a lot of evidence that suggests she didn’t intend to disappear and then met with foul play – it’s a bit complicated to unravel, but it is there.

Something that suggests to me she wasn’t planning to start a new life is that she checked her cellphone messages before she set off on her journey. Heck, the fact she took the phone with her at all indicates she intended to continue taking and making calls. If she didn’t want to ever see any of the people in her life again, why would it matter if they left her a message? Why not just chuck the phone, or leave it behind?

Then, there is her bank. She was due to be paid for her Uni job in a few days. Wouldn’t it have made sense for her to wait until that cleared before she set off, if she really wanted a new life?

Then, why did she pack her stuff into boxes? She would have had the sense to realise her stuff would be investigated if she just disappeared. To me, that suggests she intended to come get the stuff and leave the Uni quickly and quietly at a later date.
Why did she search for directions to places she had visited before? Why phone the GoStowe line? That’s not really far enough or removed enough for starting a new life. Why not directions for Canada, or Mexico, or to an airport?

I just think she had to get out of town for some reason. I still have a suspicion that she was heading towards a local-ish town to stay a night or two and actually sort something out – be it a medical problem she had, organising a visit to a University, some way to claw herself out of the problems she found herself in. She was taking a proactive and essential step forwards, not running away from a life she couldn’t handle.

Gods, I wish it had been possible to phone every hotel, hostel or bed/breakfast in NH to find out if anyone missed a reservation in those early days of the investigation.

 

[sinenox]

I just wanted to add something, in response to the question of why anyone would suspect foul play:

I think that foul play is the most likely scenario for a few reasons. The first set of reasons involve a lack of clear premeditation, as outlined well by Captain Kahn, above. I don't see why she would pack up her belongings, not wait for/stock up on cash (instead of using her card), make calls, only pack enough for a day or two, etc.

The second set of reasons, and the most compelling in my mind, is the lack of evidence. It's not easy to just pick up and start a new life from scratch, to disappear. If she had been near the Mexican border, maybe. But it's hard to convince people to give you a job, a place to stay, a way to keep your cash, all without having an established credit history. My friends who are newly established citizens in the U.S. have a heckuva job just trying to get simple services, and they have their paperwork in order and aren't hiding from anyone. Even if you find some nice old folks who live on a farm and make an arrangement, someone in town would see you. Her case may not have been a big media event, but it has been on public television for years. People are recognized that way all the time. And even if she could get a decent fake ID that will get her over the Canadian border (also not easy), the public infrastructure (healthcare, job welfare, low income housing, etc) is all based on citizenship, which she would need to prove somehow.

If she were alive and living somewhere else, there would probably be evidence of some kind. Sightings, at least. Maybe she would use her name for things. In many other cases people continue to use their real name as they make new friends and word eventually gets out. The hypothesis best served by a lack of evidence is foul play (by which I mean abduction or an accident where someone hit her in the dark and then disposed of the body). You aren't going to find evidence of foul play by and large, because it's strongly in the best interest of a specific party for you not to find that evidence. And people will go a long way to prevent that evidence from coming to light. If she had died of exposure, they would have located her body quickly and nearby, or Fred would have found it during one of his many searches. Foul play, while grim, is the most parsimonious answer.

I also just wanted to state that my previous comment was not a statement intended to reflect on Maura's intelligence or capabilities. I believe that she is probably a very smart, savvy person. But she was experiencing a series of trials at the time, her judgment was compromised by emotion and drink, and she was by accounts experiencing some trauma. I think that speaks to a state of mind that doesn't support sound judgment. And I do believe that continuing to go to her father (going to his hotel room at night, etc) supports the idea that she was actively allowing him to help her sort some of her problems. Certainly she did not, for example, have much in the way of clothing with her. She wasn't even dressed for the weather, which shows poor planning in general. And if she were really taking off, why wouldn't her boxes of possessions be with her? It is exactly because I think she is intelligent and capable that I don't buy the idea that she was intending to take off and make a new life.

 

[scoops]

I just wanted to add something, in response to the question of why anyone would suspect foul play:

I think that foul play is the most likely scenario for a few reasons. The first set of reasons involve a lack of clear premeditation, as outlined well by Captain Kahn, above. I don't see why she would pack up her belongings, not wait for/stock up on cash (instead of using her card), make calls, only pack enough for a day or two, etc.

The second set of reasons, and the most compelling in my mind, is the lack of evidence. It's not easy to just pick up and start a new life from scratch, to disappear. If she had been near the Mexican border, maybe. But it's hard to convince people to give you a job, a place to stay, a way to keep your cash, all without having an established credit history. My friends who are newly established citizens in the U.S. have a heckuva job just trying to get simple services, and they have their paperwork in order and aren't hiding from anyone. Even if you find some nice old folks who live on a farm and make an arrangement, someone in town would see you. Her case may not have been a big media event, but it has been on public television for years. People are recognized that way all the time. And even if she could get a decent fake ID that will get her over the Canadian border (also not easy), the public infrastructure (healthcare, job welfare, low income housing, etc) is all based on citizenship, which she would need to prove somehow.

If she were alive and living somewhere else, there would probably be evidence of some kind. Sightings, at least. Maybe she would use her name for things. In many other cases people continue to use their real name as they make new friends and word eventually gets out. The hypothesis best served by a lack of evidence is foul play (by which I mean abduction or an accident where someone hit her in the dark and then disposed of the body). You aren't going to find evidence of foul play by and large, because it's strongly in the best interest of a specific party for you not to find that evidence. And people will go a long way to prevent that evidence from coming to light. If she had died of exposure, they would have located her body quickly and nearby, or Fred would have found it during one of his many searches. Foul play, while grim, is the most parsimonious answer.

I also just wanted to state that my previous comment was not a statement intended to reflect on Maura's intelligence or capabilities. I believe that she is probably a very smart, savvy person. But she was experiencing a series of trials at the time, her judgment was compromised by emotion and drink, and she was by accounts experiencing some trauma. I think that speaks to a state of mind that doesn't support sound judgment. And I do believe that continuing to go to her father (going to his hotel room at night, etc) supports the idea that she was actively allowing him to help her sort some of her problems. Certainly she did not, for example, have much in the way of clothing with her. She wasn't even dressed for the weather, which shows poor planning in general. And if she were really taking off, why wouldn't her boxes of possessions be with her? It is exactly because I think she is intelligent and capable that I don't buy the idea that she was intending to take off and make a new life.

This actually makes a very good argument for the suicide theory as well though.

Maura didn't pack much clothing.
Maura left her stuff packed up back in the dorm (to make things easier for family when they would be asked to retrieve it weeks later)
Maura wasn't concerned about paychecks coming in in the next few days, yet she empties her checking account completely.

Maura heads to the white mountains hours away in a car that is allegedly on its last legs BY HERSELF and arriving in the evening hours in addition to drinking as she is driving.



I challenge anyone here.

Leave a note randomly one day to a loved one that you have abruptly taken off on a trip by yourself and its going to be in the mountains/national forest and that you are going to stop by the liquor store on the way there and for them not to contact or bother you while your gone.

tell me that your loved one won't think something is very wrong.

I guess even after all of that, you could go off alone into the mountains and still be abducted or killed by someone, but I would say the red flags would be waving quite strongly to a loved one if they had heard you took off by yourself in a run-down car to a huge wilderness type area in the middle of winter with hardly any clothes or money but plenty of alcohol.

I would venture to say that your loved one (upon reading your note) would not be too concerned with serial killers getting you. They would think something is wrong with you and police need to find you before you do something of a permanent harmful nature to yourself.

 

[CircuitGuy]

This actually makes a very good argument for the suicide theory as well though.

Maura didn't pack much clothing.
Maura left her stuff packed up back in the dorm (to make things easier for family when they would be asked to retrieve it weeks later)
Maura wasn't concerned about paychecks coming in in the next few days, yet she empties her checking account completely.

Maura heads to the white mountains hours away in a car that is allegedly on its last legs BY HERSELF and arriving in the evening hours in addition to drinking as she is driving.

This is all risky behavior, but I don't think it necessarily points to suicide. Some people don't think that far ahead with regard to the car. It does sound like she was upset about something, but it could be as mundane as being upset with a teacher and questioning if she should be in a different course of study. It could have had suicidal elements, where she didn't care as much at that moment if she crashed or broke down in the countryside.

I challenge anyone here.

Leave a note randomly one day to a loved one that you have abruptly taken off on a trip by yourself and its going to be in the mountains/national forest and that you are going to stop by the liquor store on the way there and for them not to contact or bother you while your gone.

tell me that your loved one won't think something is very wrong.

I guess even after all of that, you could go off alone into the mountains and still be abducted or killed by someone, but I would say the red flags would be waving quite strongly to a loved one if they had heard you took off by yourself in a run-down car to a huge wilderness type area in the middle of winter with hardly any clothes or money but plenty of alcohol.

I would venture to say that your loved one (upon reading your note) would not be too concerned with serial killers getting you. They would think something is wrong with you and police need to find you before you do something of a permanent harmful nature to yourself.

I agree they'd think something is wrong, but if it were 22 y/o with no history of suicidal ideation, I would never think it was that bad.

It could have been something like that. She could have been on the fence about suicide or planning it. Taking an abrupt trip tells me something was up, but it doesn't tell me that it was on the level of suicide.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Looks like we're getting a bit long in here. Here's a fresh new thread for Maura!

NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #10 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[McSpy]

For all we know the reason she went with person X (if she indeed did get into a car) vs. going with the witnesses was simply about the weather.

How many of us have walked outside on a cold day and said, "Oh this isn't too bad" but once about 10 minutes pass the cold has seeped into our bones and we realize that it isn't safe to stay outside in it for too long.

Some friends and I did this once on a 2 mile walk to the pub. I honestly thought we were going to have to beg someone to let us in their house or perhaps be in real trouble.

I agree. It could have been another reason why she may have accepted a lift. She could have thrown caution to the wind, because it was dark, cold, uncomfortable and she wanted to leave the scene.

 

[leilarose68]

To add to this a little bit... if you happen to look into the things Mr. Renner does, it is quite a bit more than just for the money. The work he had put in for the little Amy girl is excellent. It seems his heart is in the right place...

if JR wanted to make money, I don't think he'd have ventured into the world of supersleuthing... He's a journalist.. this is his vocation. Journalists write things and get paid because that's their job. This is a fascinating case and I'm surprised someone hasn't previously taken it up to look into it further.
If JR were just randomly spewing all of this misinformation and uninformed theories for profit then I would say he's taking advantage of the family... but he appears to be very methodical and genuinely wanting to figure out this case.

 

[danzn16]

Remembering Maura today... I hope answers will be found soon

 

[danzn16]

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1607013#bmb=1

A good summary article on the 10 year anniversary of her disappearance