NJ - 18 year old woman planning to move to New Jersey to MARRY her Father

[daisytrail]

Because her response was in response to a post I made earlier. I was making the point that either a child under the age of 18 is accountable for their actions in all cases or they aren't in all cases.

Relevant because the relationship being discussed here started when the daughter was 16. Either she is accountable for her actions at 16 in which case maybe she understands the implications of her relationship. Or she isn't accountable which makes this wrong.

Thank you for clarifying. I do find that I disagree. I think that there is a developmental aspect in that children are ready for some things at some ages and other things at other ages. I object to the power discrepency between the father and the daughter. For instance, I do not think it is especially earth-shattering or damaging if a 16 year-old has sex with another same age peer. I think many teens (not all) are capable of understanding the consequences and often do not feel inappropriatedly pressured. I think fathers always have power over their children, whether they have been an ongoing part of their lives or not, just as I think teachers always have power over their students and psychiatrists always have power over their patients. It is wrong because it is an exploitation.

(About one single age of consent for everything, I just don't believe in it.)

Is the young woman foolish? Of course she is. Is she as culpable as her father? No. Being 18 does not make her so.

 

[Elley Mae]

Because her response was in response to a post I made earlier. I was making the point that either a child under the age of 18 is accountable for their actions in all cases or they aren't in all cases.

Relevant because the relationship being discussed here started when the daughter was 16. Either she is accountable for her actions at 16 in which case maybe she understands the implications of her relationship. Or she isn't accountable which makes this wrong.

Understood. I am not a fan of the possibility of children being a product of this union. I have never been one to tell someone who to fall in love with, but I feel she has misplaced feelings and he is possibly taking advantage of that. Just doesn't seem right, kinda sad actually to me. jmo

 

[katydid23]

Because her response was in response to a post I made earlier. I was making the point that either a child under the age of 18 is accountable for their actions in all cases or they aren't in all cases.

Relevant because the relationship being discussed here started when the daughter was 16. Either she is accountable for her actions at 16 in which case maybe she understands the implications of her relationship. Or she isn't accountable which makes this wrong.

You cannot make a blanket statement and say 'either a child under the age of 18 is accountable for their actions in all cases or they aren't in all cases.' It does not work like that. 16 yr olds cannot be held to contractual agreements as they are not legally binding. Society has decided they cannot understand the complexities of contracts. But we do allow them to drive cars in California. And they can get married with consent. But they cannot drink alcohol. So it is a mixed bag. Some things we allow them to do, others we do not.

 

[katydid23]

Someone committed murder or robbery? I don't get the relevance.

Sunflower was saying that if this 16 yr old is not held accountable for her actions, then why are 16 yr old killers tried as adults? She is saying that it should be all or nothing. Either 16 yr olds are held accountable for everything they do, or nothing. I disagree.



Originally Posted by sunflowerchick
While I do not condone this relationship AT ALL, I find it very interesting in this and other cases the double standard that occurs in the case of teenagers. We cry that a 16 year old is not mature enough to decide their own fate when it comes to sex but if they take someone's life we scream to try them as adults and lock them up. You can't have it both ways.

 

[panthera]

Because it's not EQUAL!!! It's being a predator against your own child. It's incest. A child cannot consent to sex and it would severely damage genetic lines of the family if brothers and sisters were allowed to marry.

And their inbred children will most likely suffer some form of birth defect.

Totally disgusting...assuming there's any truth to this story.

MOO

 

[Elley Mae]

He's a creepy one. There was another case as well that was similar and involved some "religious" brainwashing. I remember seeing a photo of the little girls dressed in bride's dresses. Cannot remember the name of the perp however.

bbm ?

Police arrested 57-year-old Marcus Wesson, who emerged from the residence with blood on his clothes. Neighbors' accounts led police to believe that Wesson controlled his family in a cult-like manner, and that he possibly had fathered several of the deceased children with his own daughters and nieces.

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/mar...rviving-family-speaks-abuse/story?id=11089648

 

[STANDREID]

I agree that it is off-putting and extremely weird but if they are both consenting adults whose business is it but theirs. The way I understand the Wicki article about this sort of thing, it is illegal in most states but doesn't appear to be in either New Jersey or Rhode Island as long as both parent and child are legal age and consenting (at least about the having sex part - I'm not sure about the marriage part). I don't know about the 16-year-old business but that is the age of consent in quite a few states.

 

[Oddsocks]

THIS is the worst case of incest I've ever heard of.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ntry-town&highlight=Australia,+incest,+family

 

[katydid23]

I agree that it is off-putting and extremely weird but if they are both consenting adults whose business is it but theirs. The way I understand the Wicki article about this sort of thing, it is illegal in most states but doesn't appear to be in either New Jersey or Rhode Island as long as both parent and child are legal age and consenting (at least about the having sex part - I'm not sure about the marriage part). I don't know about the 16-year-old business but that is the age of consent in quite a few states.

Whose business is it? I can think of several others who will be strongly impacted. The girls mother, for one example. And any siblings that are unlucky enough to be caught up in this ugliness. Also any future children that may likely inherit bad genes which will negatively affect them and/or their own future offspring.

Incest is an ugly hedonistic thing, imo. Men should not have sex with their daughters. It is wrong, no matter how many times people try and pass it off as 'innocent' behavior. JMO

 

[daisytrail]

I agree that it is off-putting and extremely weird but if they are both consenting adults whose business is it but theirs. The way I understand the Wicki article about this sort of thing, it is illegal in most states but doesn't appear to be in either New Jersey or Rhode Island as long as both parent and child are legal age and consenting (at least about the having sex part - I'm not sure about the marriage part). I don't know about the 16-year-old business but that is the age of consent in quite a few states.

If people cause harm to others that hasn't caused physical injury, do you believe that it is not the business of the state?

 

[JLSChook]

If the father and his DAUGHTER want to have sex, have babies and be married and they think it's fine and dandy, why did the daughter say that they would never tell the kids they were father and daughter?

I'll tell you why: Because it's wrong. And disgusting!

 

[sunflowerchick]

If the father and his DAUGHTER want to have sex, have babies and be married and they think it's fine and dandy, why did the daughter say that they would never tell the kids they were father and daughter?

I'll tell you why: Because it's wrong. And disgusting!

No that isn't why. They don't view it as wrong and disgusting. They wouldn't tell the kids because society views it as wrong and disgusting and people are very cruel. Imagine the hell the kids would go through if other children and adults knew the relationship between their "mom and dad". Bullying at its finest from everywhere. The sad thing is, this wouldn't be the kids' fault and should never be taken out on them. Sadly, people can't mind their own business and just be kind.

Yes, this relationship is wrong. No, I am not defending it. But let's just say it is wrong and leave it at that. No need to defend it being wrong through other means. It is just wrong. Period.

My argument about 16 year old children not being old enough to understand the full consequences of their actions in ANY case stands. While this lady is now 18, this was perpetuated before she was emotionally able to be accountable, hence it is a problem. We have juvenile laws for a reason. Yes, even for cold blooded murder and certainly for incest.

 

[Nova]

It's not a comparison - it's the argument of two consenting adults.

Except it's a gross reduction of that argument. If you read the various court rulings allowing same-sex marriage, most stress the stabilizing influence of marriage on society, and reason that extending that influence to same-sex couples can only benefit society further. In addition, those rulings discuss the "respect" afforded legally recognized unions and reason that such respect can only benefit gay couples, their children, relatives and friends.

Allowing parents to marry their own children can only have a DEstabililzing impact in general and I don't think we want to afford such pairings official "respect".

In the case at issue, there is no question of legal recognition of their marriage; so while I disapprove, I don't think the unfortunate coupling of this father and daughter requires governmental intervention. As you say, Charlie, these are (now) two consenting adults.

But adult incest is easily distinguishable from gay marriage so let's don't assume we have to "go there" (and I'm not saying YOU did, Charlie) just because consenting same-sex adults can now marry in most states.

 

[Nova]

I don't see any reason to compare same sex marriages to incest.

Thank you, katy. My husband and I have been together for almost 40 years (legally married for almost 7). You can imagine how I appreciate being compared to this "father" and daughter. (Not that Charlie or anybody else intended to make this personal to me.)

Because of something we were watching on TV with our 47-year-old son, the subject of how "incest" is defined came up at dinner last night. Except that our son is heterosexual, there is in theory no impediment preventing me from divorcing my husband and marrying our son.

And yet the very idea is revolting and, IMO, rightfully so. I'd no more think of my stepson in a sexual way than I would think of my stepdaughter in a sexual way if I were straight.

 

[Sonya610]

While I do not condone this relationship AT ALL, I find it very interesting in this and other cases the double standard that occurs in the case of teenagers. We cry that a 16 year old is not mature enough to decide their own fate when it comes to sex but if they take someone's life we scream to try them as adults and lock them up. You can't have it both ways.

In many states 16 is the age of consent, they can have sex with adults of any age. People are constantly confusing the federal laws on underage *advertiser censored* with the age of consent; they are two totally different things.

I also think this story is complete b.s.

 

[Nova]

I hope you are right, Sonya.

 

[Charlie09]

Except it's a gross reduction of that argument. If you read the various court rulings allowing same-sex marriage, most stress the stabilizing influence of marriage on society, and reason that extending that influence to same-sex couples can only benefit society further. In addition, those rulings discuss the "respect" afforded legally recognized unions and reason that such respect can only benefit gay couples, their children, relatives and friends.

Allowing parents to marry their own children can only have a DEstabililzing impact in general and I don't think we want to afford such pairings official "respect".

In the case at issue, there is no question of legal recognition of their marriage; so while I disapprove, I don't think the unfortunate coupling of this father and daughter requires governmental intervention. As you say, Charlie, these are (now) two consenting adults.

But adult incest is easily distinguishable from gay marriage so let's don't assume we have to "go there" (and I'm not saying YOU did, Charlie) just because consenting same-sex adults can now marry in most states.

It's not really...you just don't like the same argument used for something you see as unnatural.

 

[Charlie09]

Thank you, katy. My husband and I have been together for almost 40 years (legally married for almost 7). You can imagine how I appreciate being compared to this "father" and daughter. (Not that Charlie or anybody else intended to make this personal to me.)

Because of something we were watching on TV with our 47-year-old son, the subject of how "incest" is defined came up at dinner last night. Except that our son is heterosexual, there is in theory no impediment preventing me from divorcing my husband and marrying our son.

And yet the very idea is revolting and, IMO, rightfully so. I'd no more think of my stepson in a sexual way than I would think of my stepdaughter in a sexual way if I were straight.

stepchildren wouldn't be the same relationship though....

 

[brighidin]

I don't know if this is a stunt or a fake article for political purposes, but homophobes have long used the slippery slope 'argument' against same-sex marriage: 'oooh if gay people can marry, what is to stop people from marrying their kids, or goats, etc.' It is ridiculous, illogical, and tiresome.

 

[newone]

I don't know if this is a stunt or a fake article for political purposes, but homophobes have long used the slippery slope 'argument' against same-sex marriage: 'oooh if gay people can marry, what is to stop people from marrying their kids, or goats, etc.' It is ridiculous, illogical, and tiresome.

BBM We sure haven't seen any photos of the happy couple have we?