AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #6

[casesensitive]

I thought Dr. Phil didn't need to ask several times in several ways if she thought she failed her daughter.

She seems in pain to me.

rsbm

I thought Dr. Phil was extremely hard on Noema with his guilt trip questioning. On reflection, I think it was a test he used to see if she would ever break down and cry. And she did, but not until she spoke in Spanish.

Dr. Phil made note of this and confirmed that there is a language barrier in play, and Noema does become emotional when she is speaking her first language. That's just the way I saw it.

 

[jjenny]

I agree with this. She looks beaten. I bet her parents will remind her every chance they get, that she is missing because she didn't want her kids, like she should. I am also sure, she is going to loose the child she is pregnant with to her parents. It almost feels like she doesn't even want to bother trying, she has given up.
I am from latin America, an I can tell you my parents have always been hard to please for girls. In my culture, girls are married off young and they stay at home, have babies and are "perfect" parents. Agreed, not all, however that is the thinking of most. I have a career, two kids that I support fully, and because I am divorced and not living with a man, I am considered unsuccessful. It's just the way it is in our culture.
I hope against hope that Dulce is found and is reunited with her mom. I also wish for mom to regain custody of her son. She needs to take parenting classes and rise above this.

Regain custody? Reportedly she neither works nor goes to school. How exactly is she going to support her child? She is also expecting a third child (father is an illegal) and I don't know what plans she has to support that child either. Father of the third child presumably can be deported at any moment.

 

[jjenny]

rsbm

I thought Dr. Phil was extremely hard on Noema with his guilt trip questioning. On reflection, I think it was a test he used to see if she would ever break down and cry. And she did, but not until she spoke in Spanish.

Dr. Phil made note of this and confirmed that there is a language barrier in play, and Noema does become emotional when she is speaking her first language. That's just the way I saw it.

People can show emotion using non native language. Especially considering she was born in the US. She understands and she speaks English, not sure what would prevent showing of emotion. You can compare Noema to Dulce's grandma. Grandma is clearly devastated. Noema seems very calm. Maybe that's just how she is.

 

[jjenny]

I do not mean to be negative, but I don't know how a 10 year old can give enough accurate detail for a sketch, I know at that age I could given description of clothing, hair color and length race. At 10, I could have picked someone out of a sketch book. I could not have given enough detail to get facial features correct. JMO

I wasn't exactly accurate there. 10 year old didn't give enough details for a sketch, there is no sketch of the first Hispanic man. 10 year old gave a description. Sketch is of the second Hispanic man, and who gave those details isn't clear, but it's not 10 year old.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Does anyone have any idea why in Cupcake’s case, parents were asked to avoid the cameras and remain silent even while being trashed by rumors but in this case so much is being let go? Why would BPD not comment on all the discrepancies after the DP show? Maybe waiting for local gossip to trip someone up? Otherwise I can’t imagine a professional reason for not grabbing the reins here and gaining some semblance of control.

I'm just running off at the mouth, but here's my opinion. The only people LE needs to answer to at this point (legally) are the grandparents. They are staying quiet. I think this JR girl is a loose cannon and prodding Noema, who seems to be a total follower. It isnt up to LE to try to rein in someone (JR) who should in no way, shape, nor form have inserted herself as the ringmaster.

Endrant.

 

[demetra]

praying for Dulce...

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

He doesn't really talk so he didn't tell her all that (he isn't the one who mentioned a red van or that a man was behind the buildings). As far as I can tell he gestured somebody waved to them (Noema says waved like come here). The source of the red van story is a basketball playing girl age 10.

The story has changed many times along with news articles disappearing.

 

[cass523]

True- LE wouldn’t need to release a sketch of the guy if they’d already questioned him.

Still makes no sense why Noema would say the witness saw a black man if the witness had them draw up a sketch of a Hispanic man.

The more I think about the Dr Phil interview vis a vis the other info put out over the past few months the more my brain hurts.

MOO.

Adding this here regarding the black and Hispanic men who were said to be in the vicinity of the park. Trying to figure this out. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

I am watching the recorded interview from Dr. Phil episode again. (Video below)

(08:02 mark)

DP: "How many girls were on the basketball court?"

N: "Four. I went back up and I went and asked the girls on the basketball court if they saw something. And they told me that they saw a black guy passing by where my daughter went running, behind the buildings. Supposedly, one of them, the girl, I think she is 10 years-old or younger, she is the one that saw the red van."

DP: "And where did she see the red van?"

N: "Behind the buildings are a baseball field and there is like a path going through around."

(13:02 mark)

DP: "Then you call 911. People said somebody took her. What people?"

N: "The girls from the basketball court."

DP: "What did they say?"

N: "They saw her running towards the building. they said that when she went running, a black guy passed by behind the buildings."

(16:42 mark)

Dr. Phil is asking Noema why the Amber alert states a Hispanic man, and not black man, Noema tells him:

N: "Because one of those girls saw what happened. They just told me that she just saw the red van and saw a Mexican guy."

DP: "Did she say she saw him take your daughter?"

N: "I am not sure, because they just told me that, they did not tell me nothing else."


The four girls at the basketball courts, saw two different men. The 10 year-old told Noema she only saw a black man on the path, passing by the buildings as Dulce was running towards the buildings.

The other girls saw a Hispanic man. He could have been with the black man, or the black man may have been just walking along the path, by the buildings. We just don't know.

Noema, the spokeswoman and LE need to collaborate their stories, the facts

Click on the youtube icon (click inside the video if it does not play

 

[rosesfromangels]

Regain custody? Reportedly she neither works nor goes to school. How exactly is she going to support her child? She is also expecting a third child (father is an illegal) and I don't know what plans she has to support that child either. Father of the third child presumably can be deported at any moment.

I think Job Corps is a great option for Noema. She could learn a trade, get assistance with job placement, and get on her feet. I hope she can pursue this, or a similar program.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[jjenny]

10 year old is the one who saw Hispanic man with a red van. Somebody else (presumably another player) saw a Black man. Not sure why police hasn't released any description of the Black man. Then there is a second Hispanic man (not sure who saw that one, but witness came forward much later with the description to provide a sketch).

 

[jjenny]

I think Job Corps is a great option for Noema. She could learn a trade, get assistance with job placement, and get on her feet. I hope she can pursue this, or a similar program.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Who is going to take care of her third child? Grandparents again? She needs to have a child care plan to enter Job Corps.

 

[Trackergd]

Is anyone clear on what LE entity is managing the case? Usually the FBI is on site at the request of local LE, unless this turns into illegal interstate transport of a minor. In NJ, can NJSP "claim jump" a case and take it away from local LE if they are understaffed, lack the needed skill sets or are just plain incompetent?

I'm pretty sure LE does not give a flying fadoo about what we think here unless we stumble on something important and are not about to give us any details to help solve this case. Some key points to me are A) Who is running the show? B)What are the start and end points of the scent trail? and C) Does LE have an accurate time line and clear vision of the events as they unfolded?

All the discussions here, in the MSM and on social media seem to keep doing a 180 and coming back to endless discussions about Noema and her family, language difficulties, local community fear, etc, etc. rather than the most critical task of all... moving the search for Dulce forward.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize in advance of the facts. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts.”

“We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.”

“It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are the infinitely the most important.”

 

[Trackergd]

A witness (minor) saw what they thought was a Black man pass by. Another witness saw what they thought was a Hispanic man. One of the witnesses saw a red van. One of the witnesses said they saw Dulce run around the building. Unless I am missing something, NO ONE saw one or more actors physically take Dulce. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

 

[jjenny]

A witness (minor) saw what they thought was a Black man pass by. Another witness saw what they thought was a Hispanic man. One of the witnesses saw a red van. One of the witnesses said they saw Dulce run around the building. Unless I am missing something, NO ONE saw one or more actors physically take Dulce. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Amber alert says Dulce was taken by a Hispanic man with a red van, so I am assuming 10 year old did say she saw Dulce being put into the van by the Hispanic man.

 

[jjenny]

Is anyone clear on what LE entity is managing the case? Usually the FBI is on site at the request of local LE, unless this turns into illegal interstate transport of a minor. In NJ, can NJSP "claim jump" a case and take it away from local LE if they are understaffed, lack the needed skill sets or are just plain incompetent?

I'm pretty sure LE does not give a flying fadoo about what we think here unless we stumble on something important and are not about to give us any details to help solve this case. Some key points to me are A) Who is running the show? B)What are the start and end points of the scent trail? and C) Does LE have an accurate time line and clear vision of the events as they unfolded?

All the discussions here, in the MSM and on social media seem to keep doing a 180 and coming back to endless discussions about Noema and her family, language difficulties, local community fear, etc, etc. rather than the most critical task of all... moving the search for Dulce forward.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize in advance of the facts. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts.”

“We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.”

“It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are the infinitely the most important.”

I am not sure how the search can move forward if no one has any idea as to what actually happened.

 

[Trackergd]

I am not sure how the search can move forward if no one has any idea as to what actually happened.

Bingo! And that is what the community, the media, and anyone else with any interest in this case should be demanding from LE. The known facts and a Timeline, at least those parts that do not jeopardize any criminal portions of the investigation. LE nationwide has become so concerned about lawsuits that they have virtually shut down sharing information with the community that could help solve a huge number of missing person cases.

I fail to see how endless discussions and speculation about Noema, her family, language issues, community issues, deportation concerns or anything not related to finding Dulce is helping the case. It's all just "noise" that tends to drown out digging for facts.

 

[Trackergd]

(08:02 mark)

DP: "How many girls were on the basketball court?"

N: "Four. I went back up and I went and asked the girls on the basketball court if they saw something. And they told me that they saw a black guy passing by where my daughter went running, behind the buildings. Supposedly, one of them, the girl, I think she is 10 years-old or younger, she is the one that saw the red van."

DP: "And where did she see the red van?"

N: "Behind the buildings are a baseball field and there is like a path going through around."

(13:02 mark)

DP: "Then you call 911. People said somebody took her. What people?"

N: "The girls from the basketball court."

DP: "What did they say?"

N: "They saw her running towards the building. they said that when she went running, a black guy passed by behind the buildings."

(16:42 mark)

Dr. Phil is asking Noema why the Amber alert states a Hispanic man, and not black man, Noema tells him:

N: "Because one of those girls saw what happened. They just told me that she just saw the red van and saw a Mexican guy."

DP: "Did she say she saw him take your daughter?"

N: "I am not sure, because they just told me that, they did not tell me nothing else."

Respectfully snipped and bolding/italics by me.

Look at the bolded parts above.

• "Black Guy" passed by where Dulce ran.
• "Red van and Mexican Guy".
• Dulce went running behind the building.
• Path
• No clear confirmation that either the "Black Guy" or the "Mexican Guy" actually abducted Dulce.

I have a 7 year old grandson who is articulate enough to recite details. We are missing something.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Wait. There was reporting that someone saw a man place her in the van. For example

$20K reward offered for information about missing 5-year-old Dulce Alavez

 

[cody22]

Off Topic - Jersey City, New Jersey - Active shooter situation.....moo

 

[MissMalowe]

Is anyone clear on what LE entity is managing the case? Usually the FBI is on site at the request of local LE, unless this turns into illegal interstate transport of a minor. In NJ, can NJSP "claim jump" a case and take it away from local LE if they are understaffed, lack the needed skill sets or are just plain incompetent?

I'm pretty sure LE does not give a flying fadoo about what we think here unless we stumble on something important and are not about to give us any details to help solve this case. Some key points to me are A) Who is running the show? B)What are the start and end points of the scent trail? and C) Does LE have an accurate time line and clear vision of the events as they unfolded?

All the discussions here, in the MSM and on social media seem to keep doing a 180 and coming back to endless discussions about Noema and her family, language difficulties, local community fear, etc, etc. rather than the most critical task of all... moving the search for Dulce forward.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize in advance of the facts. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts.”

“We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.”

“It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are the infinitely the most important.”

I believe one of the most recent updates from Bridgeton Police Department touched on the fact that FBI is the lead in the investigation.

The dog losing the scent trail was mentioned a few times, though details beyond that weren't specified such as:

1) The length in distance the dog followed the scent. I believe a timeframe of 1-2 hours was mentioned, but never if the distance was 1-2 hours worth of forward movement, circling back etc. No details were released about that to include where exactly the dog lost Dulce's scent.

2) A woman was quoted in media a few times to have seen Dulce at the park that Friday before (just 3 days prior) and specifics on whether that previous scent trail could/did complicate the scent trail of the day she went missing, or if the dog(s) could determine old paths from new paths of Dulce were never discussed.



The timeline and specifics, I honestly can't recall if Bridgeton PD ever laid those out themselves or if we, as the public have pieced it together via msm articles directly quoting PD and MSM reports from family etc. The specifics have always been hazy. Most recently, as an example we learned via Noema's Dr Phil interview that there were 4 young girls on the basketball court who gave the information to Noema that day, whereas previously, PD was quoted in msm as saying there were approximately 2 dozen players on the court that day (no ages/gender specifics given though)

*Edited to correct verb tense