NJ NJ - Margaret Fox, 14, Burlington, 24 June 1974

[Ciriii57]

If the person who took Margaret and the ransom caller are the same person then I find it very odd. Usually a kidnap for ransom would be targetted. You would target someone relatively wealthy and then try and make contact before LE get involved.
But Margaret's kidnapper didn't seem to specifically target her, she just happened to be the unlucky girl who accepted the job, it could have been any of the other girls he contacted or even her cousin. And yet despite this apparent randomness the kidnapping seemed quite well planned in that they had spoken to Margaret's father, cancelled a couple of times and managed to lure Margaret to another town.
I am not sure I believe that the ransom call and letters were real as opposed to some sicko playing a cruel trick (apparently it is really common for people to do this , to try and involve themselves somehow). Although LE seemed to have taken them more seriously later, I wonder if this was just because all other leads had been fruitless?

Regarding the name John Marshall, his red VW and even having a house with a pool etc. He could have just picked the name at random from a phone book, there doesn't need to be a reason for it. Although maybe it is a bit of a BIG coincidence that the manager of the supermarket where he placed the calls has the same name! He may indeed have had a red VW and a house with a pool; I mean, who would know? Witnesses potentially saw MArgaret get off the bus, but not the car she got into. It is possible the red VW was there waiting and Margaret got into it (as I think she would have panicked if the car was different) and nobody took any notice. It is easier to tell the truth than keep up a lie so I think the abductor would have kept an element of truth.

For interest, the below is a link to an obituary of John Marshall of Lumberton. He died aged 87 in 2015 and had worked at Twin County Grocers. He would have been in his mid-40's when Margaret was abducted. I think this is "our" John Marshall.
Interestingly he was born in Phenix, Virginia and raised in Montclair, New Jersey. Regarding the accents from the phone call, would anyone recognise this as a Montclair accent. I am not American so I can't say, but Montclair seems to be near New York, and several people thought that was the accent? Any thoughts welcome

https://obits.nj.com/us/obituaries/starledger/name/john-marshall-obituary?id=18355409

 

[Chris M]

The caller sounded like he had a North Jersey or maybe a Philly accent and was maybe an Italian-American deli worker. He said bread and butter on the call.

 

[Richard]

Red Volkswagen Beetles of the type mentioned in previous posts.

 

[PGHJW]

It's an Eastern PA/Jersey accent and the caller is doing his best to hide it. He's deliberately pronouncing the "r's" but can't hide it when he says "daughter."

Whether the caller was the perp or not (I tend to think not), he was either a shopper or employee at the A&P. While it's still done today, years ago I remember many more large pictures of a store manager with their name posted in the store itself, usually near the office or even near the entrance/exit. All it takes is a glance at that to grab a name.

 

[Chris M]

If the person who took Margaret and the ransom caller are the same person then I find it very odd. Usually a kidnap for ransom would be targetted. You would target someone relatively wealthy and then try and make contact before LE get involved.
But Margaret's kidnapper didn't seem to specifically target her, she just happened to be the unlucky girl who accepted the job, it could have been any of the other girls he contacted or even her cousin. And yet despite this apparent randomness the kidnapping seemed quite well planned in that they had spoken to Margaret's father, cancelled a couple of times and managed to lure Margaret to another town.
I am not sure I believe that the ransom call and letters were real as opposed to some sicko playing a cruel trick (apparently it is really common for people to do this , to try and involve themselves somehow). Although LE seemed to have taken them more seriously later, I wonder if this was just because all other leads had been fruitless?

Regarding the name John Marshall, his red VW and even having a house with a pool etc. He could have just picked the name at random from a phone book, there doesn't need to be a reason for it. Although maybe it is a bit of a BIG coincidence that the manager of the supermarket where he placed the calls has the same name! He may indeed have had a red VW and a house with a pool; I mean, who would know? Witnesses potentially saw MArgaret get off the bus, but not the car she got into. It is possible the red VW was there waiting and Margaret got into it (as I think she would have panicked if the car was different) and nobody took any notice. It is easier to tell the truth than keep up a lie so I think the abductor would have kept an element of truth.

For interest, the below is a link to an obituary of John Marshall of Lumberton. He died aged 87 in 2015 and had worked at Twin County Grocers. He would have been in his mid-40's when Margaret was abducted. I think this is "our" John Marshall.
Interestingly he was born in Phenix, Virginia and raised in Montclair, New Jersey. Regarding the accents from the phone call, would anyone recognise this as a Montclair accent. I am not American so I can't say, but Montclair seems to be near New York, and several people thought that was the accent? Any thoughts welcome

https://obits.nj.com/us/obituaries/starledger/name/john-marshall-obituary?id=18355409

As a New Jerseyan the accent could be a Montclair accent. Its possible since the accent sounds Northern Jerseyan to me.

 

[CuriousAce]

If the person who took Margaret and the ransom caller are the same person then I find it very odd. Usually a kidnap for ransom would be targetted. You would target someone relatively wealthy and then try and make contact before LE get involved.
But Margaret's kidnapper didn't seem to specifically target her, she just happened to be the unlucky girl who accepted the job, it could have been any of the other girls he contacted or even her cousin. And yet despite this apparent randomness the kidnapping seemed quite well planned in that they had spoken to Margaret's father, cancelled a couple of times and managed to lure Margaret to another town.
I am not sure I believe that the ransom call and letters were real as opposed to some sicko playing a cruel trick (apparently it is really common for people to do this , to try and involve themselves somehow). Although LE seemed to have taken them more seriously later, I wonder if this was just because all other leads had been fruitless?

Regarding the name John Marshall, his red VW and even having a house with a pool etc. He could have just picked the name at random from a phone book, there doesn't need to be a reason for it. Although maybe it is a bit of a BIG coincidence that the manager of the supermarket where he placed the calls has the same name! He may indeed have had a red VW and a house with a pool; I mean, who would know? Witnesses potentially saw MArgaret get off the bus, but not the car she got into. It is possible the red VW was there waiting and Margaret got into it (as I think she would have panicked if the car was different) and nobody took any notice. It is easier to tell the truth than keep up a lie so I think the abductor would have kept an element of truth.

For interest, the below is a link to an obituary of John Marshall of Lumberton. He died aged 87 in 2015 and had worked at Twin County Grocers. He would have been in his mid-40's when Margaret was abducted. I think this is "our" John Marshall.
Interestingly he was born in Phenix, Virginia and raised in Montclair, New Jersey. Regarding the accents from the phone call, would anyone recognise this as a Montclair accent. I am not American so I can't say, but Montclair seems to be near New York, and several people thought that was the accent? Any thoughts welcome

https://obits.nj.com/us/obituaries/starledger/name/john-marshall-obituary?id=18355409

Where do I hear the voice being mentioned?

 

[CuriousAce]

If the person who took Margaret and the ransom caller are the same person then I find it very odd. Usually a kidnap for ransom would be targetted. You would target someone relatively wealthy and then try and make contact before LE get involved.
But Margaret's kidnapper didn't seem to specifically target her, she just happened to be the unlucky girl who accepted the job, it could have been any of the other girls he contacted or even her cousin. And yet despite this apparent randomness the kidnapping seemed quite well planned in that they had spoken to Margaret's father, cancelled a couple of times and managed to lure Margaret to another town.
I am not sure I believe that the ransom call and letters were real as opposed to some sicko playing a cruel trick (apparently it is really common for people to do this , to try and involve themselves somehow). Although LE seemed to have taken them more seriously later, I wonder if this was just because all other leads had been fruitless?

Regarding the name John Marshall, his red VW and even having a house with a pool etc. He could have just picked the name at random from a phone book, there doesn't need to be a reason for it. Although maybe it is a bit of a BIG coincidence that the manager of the supermarket where he placed the calls has the same name! He may indeed have had a red VW and a house with a pool; I mean, who would know? Witnesses potentially saw MArgaret get off the bus, but not the car she got into. It is possible the red VW was there waiting and Margaret got into it (as I think she would have panicked if the car was different) and nobody took any notice. It is easier to tell the truth than keep up a lie so I think the abductor would have kept an element of truth.

For interest, the below is a link to an obituary of John Marshall of Lumberton. He died aged 87 in 2015 and had worked at Twin County Grocers. He would have been in his mid-40's when Margaret was abducted. I think this is "our" John Marshall.
Interestingly he was born in Phenix, Virginia and raised in Montclair, New Jersey. Regarding the accents from the phone call, would anyone recognise this as a Montclair accent. I am not American so I can't say, but Montclair seems to be near New York, and several people thought that was the accent? Any thoughts welcome

https://obits.nj.com/us/obituaries/starledger/name/john-marshall-obituary?id=18355409

Ignore my previous post, I just listened to the call. You cannot tell any kind of NJ accent let alone distinctly Montclair. Sounds more like the person's first language is not English and they have some other kind of accent other than a local one.

 

[BethAnn777]

Ignore my previous post, I just listened to the call. You cannot tell any kind of NJ accent let alone distinctly Montclair. Sounds more like the person's first language is not English and they have some other kind of accent other than a local one.

I hear a NJ accent as well or at least in that general area. Sounds like English is their first language to me. I am a trained ESL teacher for what it is worth. I don’t claim to be an expert, so this is really just my opinion. Reminds me of how eye witnesses can all see the same thing but describe it differently.
I can’t believe no one has ever come forward to say they recognize this guy’s voice.

 

[ifindedout]

all text snipped for focus
Audio clip, including the narrator's intro to it, begins at about 15:55.

 

[ifindedout]

Pretty sure the accent is from NJ, sounds less like Philly/South Jersey and much closer to NYC. MOO

 

[Ciriii57]

I'm no expert and am not even American, but I don't detect any trace of a foreign accent.

If this in fact could be a Montclair accent as some have said, then it makes it increasingly likely that the person who made the phonecalls was also the manager of the store where the calls were made.

Its not a giant leap to believe that this person was also the murderer, although we can't say for definite they were the same person I guess.

 

[Bit of hope]

It's hard for me to believe an abductor would use his own name when calling for ransom. To me it's sound more like wanting to deliver a nasty blow to (a) John Marshall (if so, most likely the store manager) or just a chosen name somebody picked up somewhere. An, IMO probably pure coincidental, observation is that John Marshall's wife maiden name is Foxworth.

 

[PGHJW]

I do wonder if something else in the call was held back that made investigators truly think that the caller was the culprit.

 

[Ciriii57]

I do wonder if something else in the call was held back that made investigators truly think that the caller was the culprit

I did wonder as they seemed to pay it little attention until years later when it was revisited as a cold case.

I do think it would have been stupid for the kidnapper to use his real name, but no one said criminals had to be clever. If they are the same person the strangeness of the kidnapping itself being seemingly well planned, yet the randomness of the target (no apparent care as to which girl it was) and then that odd ransom call leads to me to think that what happened was maybe not what was planned -that something went wrong which cost Margaret her life. Though I'm not sure what. I wonder if they thought they could make a quick buck by kidnapping a child, any child, but they weren't bright enough to pull it off and it all went wrong.

It is a big coincidence that:
-The advert was placed by John Marshall
-A John Marshall worked at the store where the call was placed
-The caller has a possible NJ accent
-John Marshall was from Montclair, NJ

What the saying, There are no coincidences in crime.

 

[Shamrock1]

Was “buttered topping” a common phrase, either in the 1970s or in any regional area?

 

[Bit of hope]

Was “buttered topping” a common phrase, either in the 1970s or in any regional area?

From memory (If I'm right it's somewhere in this thread) it was an advertisement where they used that.

 

[Mito]

If the person who took Margaret and the ransom caller are the same person then I find it very odd. Usually a kidnap for ransom would be targetted. You would target someone relatively wealthy and then try and make contact before LE get involved.
But Margaret's kidnapper didn't seem to specifically target her, she just happened to be the unlucky girl who accepted the job, it could have been any of the other girls he contacted or even her cousin. And yet despite this apparent randomness the kidnapping seemed quite well planned in that they had spoken to Margaret's father, cancelled a couple of times and managed to lure Margaret to another town.
I am not sure I believe that the ransom call and letters were real as opposed to some sicko playing a cruel trick (apparently it is really common for people to do this , to try and involve themselves somehow). Although LE seemed to have taken them more seriously later, I wonder if this was just because all other leads had been fruitless?

Regarding the name John Marshall, his red VW and even having a house with a pool etc. He could have just picked the name at random from a phone book, there doesn't need to be a reason for it. Although maybe it is a bit of a BIG coincidence that the manager of the supermarket where he placed the calls has the same name! He may indeed have had a red VW and a house with a pool; I mean, who would know? Witnesses potentially saw MArgaret get off the bus, but not the car she got into. It is possible the red VW was there waiting and Margaret got into it (as I think she would have panicked if the car was different) and nobody took any notice. It is easier to tell the truth than keep up a lie so I think the abductor would have kept an element of truth.

For interest, the below is a link to an obituary of John Marshall of Lumberton. He died aged 87 in 2015 and had worked at Twin County Grocers. He would have been in his mid-40's when Margaret was abducted. I think this is "our" John Marshall.
Interestingly he was born in Phenix, Virginia and raised in Montclair, New Jersey. Regarding the accents from the phone call, would anyone recognise this as a Montclair accent. I am not American so I can't say, but Montclair seems to be near New York, and several people thought that was the accent? Any thoughts welcome

https://obits.nj.com/us/obituaries/starledger/name/john-marshall-obituary?id=18355409

Yes. I just listened to a podcast on this case. He sounds like a pro. Probably lived with family members since the date was postponed.

The call was likely a hoax - it’s so common for people to be cruel.

He also probably did not have a red VW. He threw out enough red herrings to keep people looking for the wrong things.

He could have just approached and asked are you Margaret? My wife was busy so I’ll take you (and his car was a green truck or blue sedan etc…). Very sad that there are no witnesses or real clues for this one.

 

[ifindedout]

From memory (If I'm right it's somewhere in this thread) it was an advertisement where they used that.

At the time she disappeared Home Pride bread was being pitched for its buttered top. It's still made today. This is one of their commercials I remember seeing at the time.

 

[cherrymeg]

I did wonder as they seemed to pay it little attention until years later when it was revisited as a cold case.

I do think it would have been stupid for the kidnapper to use his real name, but no one said criminals had to be clever. If they are the same person the strangeness of the kidnapping itself being seemingly well planned, yet the randomness of the target (no apparent care as to which girl it was) and then that odd ransom call leads to me to think that what happened was maybe not what was planned -that something went wrong which cost Margaret her life. Though I'm not sure what. I wonder if they thought they could make a quick buck by kidnapping a child, any child, but they weren't bright enough to pull it off and it all went wrong.

It is a big coincidence that:
-The advert was placed by John Marshall
-A John Marshall worked at the store where the call was placed
-The caller has a possible NJ accent
-John Marshall was from Montclair, NJ

What the saying, There are no coincidences in crime.

Could it have been someone that worked with John Marshall or had worked with him. People seem to stick with familiar names they get from somewhere when they make them up. If you are going to kidnap someone you should go with a name that won’t stand out. If you are targeting kids that put an ad out for babysitting jobs there is a chance the families aren’t super rich. It seems like a weird way to pick a kid to ransom. He responded to the ad and was able to have a girl come to him and calculate the risk of exposing himself to arrest. He talked to parents so they felt comfortable. If a parent didn’t then he wouldn’t hire that babysitter. I think other people or girls around that time and area or were getting calls from a strange man offering modeling jobs or something similar. It just seems like someone has to know what happened to her or there has to be something that connects the suspect to the location and phone and things like that.

 

[Ciriii57]

It just seems like someone has to know what happened to her or there has to be something that connects the suspect to the location and phone and things like that.

Totally agree. Something must connect all the dots on this thing. I think because LE didn't seem to really start looking into the phonecall until quite some time later that any lead they may have was mighty cold.

I'm also not totally convinced that the "buttered topping" phrase is enough of a clue to discern identity. I think this person had probably seen one of the Home Pride adverts and just used this phrase instead of say "the icing on the cake".