NM NM - Truth or Consequences, WhtMale UP8544, 30-50, off Hwy 181, Apr'10

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by tatertot, Nov 3, 2010.

  1. tatertot

    tatertot Member

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    http://www.abqjournal.com/abqnews/c...-59/24993-help-identify-skeletal-remains.html

    There is a police sketch of this John Doe at the link above. He had a very distinct nose. His possessions and clothing included a hazmat card, which is evidently earned by attending training sessions to become a hazardous materials first responder. The fact that he carried this card, along with his green Cintas pants, makes me think he was employed and possibly en route to or from work at the time of his death, as it doesn't seem as likely someone would be wearing uniform pants and still carrying a certification card if he was retired. Note that brand name on his polo shirt seems to be a typo. It's Munsingwear, known for its penguin logo. He also had with him "Reyno" brand cigarettes from Germany.

    He is thought to have been in the desert for more than two years, I assume due to the dates on the $16.77 in currency he had on him.

    Additional article: http://www.koat.com/news/25607406/detail.html
     
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  3. tatertot

    tatertot Member

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    Very similar glasses, possibly a nose like the UID (it's hard to tell from the photo) and a build that might fit the 46X25 pants on the UID.

    There are no measurements or age estimation on the UID, however, and the sketch suggests he might be older than the missing man's age of 28. Also, he's been missing nine years and I'd assume it would be reported if the UID had no currency on him more current than 2001.

    http://charleyproject.org/cases/b/burckley_michael.html
     
  4. CaseyLPC

    CaseyLPC Licensed Professional Counselor

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    The pants found with the skeletal John Doe were size 25 length there is no way that a man standing 6'2'' would be able to wear them comfortably. Not that it is impossible, but I feel highly unlikely. Good searching though. They have very similar facial structure.
     
  5. tatertot

    tatertot Member

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    How did I miss that? I suspect that "25" may be an error, because if I understand men's clothing sizes correctly, our UID would have worn an XXL or 2XL based on his waist measurement of 46, but his inseam measurement is 5 units below an XXS. If that number is correct, Cintas ought to be able to help identify a past customer with such unique measurements.

    Considering the typo on "Munsingwear," perhaps his clothing labels were quite deteriorated and hard to read. I emailed NM State Police at Las Cruces to inquire as to whether the UID's pant size is correct.
     
  6. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    That would make him a very short, very fat man. Unless for whatever reason they weren't full-length pants?
     
  7. KLCD620

    KLCD620 New Member

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    I check out the eBay site for Cintas pants which they either have short/long pants. My sister in law's Dad from my wife side have wide waist size like 46" range. He probably same height as Michael Burckley.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=320604288818
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=180546945854

    I'm not sure whether 46" x 25" pant actually an short pant for tall & wide man like Michael. How cold is the weather in New Mexico during the month of January when he was missing?

    Maybe it's unique size & custom pant for short & fat man not named M.E.B.
     
  8. Mensch

    Mensch Former Member

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    I have been searching for Jonathan Betts for awhile. Since there is no age or specific identifiers on the UP, I submitted him as a possible to both agencies.

    Worth noting is that Betts had a passport (German cigaretts). Betts is also very stocky, the time line fits, he has a prominent and distinctive nose and the circumstances are not outside the realm of possibility. May be nothing but there is just too little to go on here.
    http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200604989S
     
  9. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

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    where would they get that nose from? is not the nose cartilage and does not survive the elements when the body becomes a skeleton?

    I don't think it was a person missing for very long before the death as the hazmat card and the foreign cigarettes don't seem to be from someone on the lam.

    I was trying to find toxic waste sites in the area and one popped up as a former Superfund site (I think most waste sites are not superfunds but just for reference).

    this list shows one in Truth or Consequences called the North Broadway Groundwater Plume:

    http://cfpub.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/srchrslt.cfm?Start=176&sortby=city

    If I am reading the list correctly, it might have been remediated in 2005. If this is a valid starting point, I wonder who was awarded the contract to clean up the site?
     
  10. CaseyLPC

    CaseyLPC Licensed Professional Counselor

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    There are several incidents where the harsh desert like environment has led to some preservation or mumification of human tissue providing a very accurate depiction of what one looked like before death.
     
  11. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Even if the cartilage doesn't survive, they can approximate from the shape of the bones to which it was attached. So the bones at the bridge of the nose would tell them it was broadly arched and the bones at the bottom would tell that the nose pointed down.

    Wasn't there a name on the hazmat card?
     
  12. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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  13. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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  14. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    They aren't drawn to quite the same scale.
     
  15. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

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    I hope this link comes through. here is someone selling a pair of pants with the measurements of 46 x 25. unfortunately the picture is so small it is does not show what the whole thing looks like:

    "AUTHENTIC" HANDMADE AMISH MENS PANTS 46 X 25 - eBay (item 400167119076 end time Feb-21-11 16:06:30 PST)

    as for his height, I was not able to find any standardized chart giving estimated heights for inseam lengths. from what I could gather, assuming the pants went all the way down to his ankles, a 25" inseam should yield a height of no more than about 5'2".

    a man who actually fit into a 46" waist at 5'2" would be morbidly obese I would think.
     
  16. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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  17. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    NamUs estimates his height at 77 inches. I think the 25" inseam on the his pants was possibly a mistake of some sort.
     
  18. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Did anybody save the police sketch? It's not on the Namus entry and the article that included it is one of the extinct one.
    ETA: Found it on Porchlight: http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=61684

    The Namus entry also doesn't include the complete list of what was found with the body. Besides the shirt, pants, shoes, and fleece jacket, they found

    ...a French WAC/MAB .32 semi automatic pistol, a number of Sellier and Bellot .32 rounds and Stetson eye glasses. Found within the clothing were $16.77 in cash, a hazmat card and Reyno cigarettes, a German non-import brand.

    Read more: http://www.koat.com/Human-Remains-Near-T-or-C-Still-Unidentified/6134424#ixzz3HDEhp8If
     
  19. Laughing

    Laughing Active Member

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    77 inches converts to 6 foot 3 inches. That's unusual! An XL polo, but a men's medium fleece vest? Typical American brands, but a European pistol & cigarettes?

    Oddly enough, I was in TorC while the remains were in the desert. I agree with LE, someone should recognize him.

    There are RV parks and people traveling in to use the baths. The town was originally named Hot Springs but changed because of an arrangement with the Truth or Consequences show.

    You might need that fleece vest any time of year, very cool in the morning & evening and the wind can be brutal.

    There is a VA hospital in TorC. (IDK when the VA took over Carrie Tingley Hospital, originally a facility for children with polio.) I expect he would be identified by the dental information if he was a VA patient, but with the Cintas pants, maybe a worker?
     
  20. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    I found this about the pistol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAB_Model_D_pistol

    The MAB C was a civilian version of the MAB D, intended for military and police use. It hasn't been manufactured since 1963, but it doesn't appear to be at all rare or unusual. The French military used them in Indochina and they were subsequently popular with the Vietcong.

    If he was older, that plus the nearby VA hospital would make me think he's a suicidal Vietnam-era veteran. But the age estimate means he wasn't even born until after the war was well over.
     
  21. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    77 inches converts to 6 foot 5 inches
     

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