NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#30

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minni

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Can I just say, I dont really like the broncos??? haha but go the mighty maroons :D
 

YoureNicked

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Just for you Squizzey

Officers getting impatient

"Mr. Baden-Clay, with all due respect your wife has gone missing - you don't seem to be overly concerned for her welfare"

"Well officer - it's a bit annoying that she isn't here to do the jobs. I hope she hasn't lost the iPhone that's not insured. Mind you it's only an iPhone 3 - I gave Al my old one when I upgraded to the iPhone 4. Do you use an iPhone? They're great little gadgets. You can do all these great things with them. Oh and there's this great game called Angry Birds that I play on mine all the time..."

"Sir, we really do need to have more information - you said your wife sometimes goes for a walk in the morning - do you know the route she normally takes?"

" No - not got a clue. She goes out really early - I prefer to stay in bed playing with my big fella" [chuckles]

" Sir, can you describe to us what your wife was wearing when you last saw her?"

"Oh yes - she was wearing grey 3/4 pants and a black tee shirt a really nice lacy bra (my favourite), a g string, cute little socks and her designer joggers. She wasn't wearing her engagement ring though - she always takes that off. Look here it is - such a big sparkler isn't it. It's South African you know. It's a family diamond. Very high quality - would be worth a fortune. Glad that hasn't gone missing."

GBC picks up his phone and dials a number

"Mum - just to let you know the police are here now. I had to make the lunches this morning and drop the kids at school - look I wonder if you can call Olivia to see if she can help me. I'll need someone to pick up the kids this afternoon and feed them - I have work to do... Yes Mum, I have taken my Dexies this morning! Yes and I've brushed my shoes. Gotta go Mum"

"Sir, can you tell me what state of mind your wife was in when you last saw her, was she unhappy about anything, depressed maybe?"

"No she was fine, I had just sent her to that top hairdressing salon - paid a fortune for her to have her hair done so she would look nice at the conference today. Oh hold on just a minute..."

GBC picks up phone again

"Hello REIQ it's Gerard Baden- Clay here. Is that Narissa? .... Hi Narissa, sweetheart, look I wonder if you can do me a favour. My wife Allison was supposed to go to the conference in town today and she won't be able to get there - can you organise to refund us for her ticket... Thank you so much. I'll take you out for a drink next time I come into town. Bye Sweetheart".

Policeman getting grumpy

"Sir, can I ask you to please refrain from making more calls until we have the information we need. So what you are telling us is your wife hasn't been depressed about anything"

"Errmm - not sure. I think she did once mention seeing a psychiatrist or something like that.... or was it that she thought I should talk to one. I can't remember that sort of stuff ..let me have a look. See with the iPhone you can just search for anything on this thing and get information really easily. Here we go..Psychiatrists in West Brisbane - wow there are so many"

Mouse, you cracked me up with your parts 1 & 2 of 'Boy Scout Gone Bad' (title of 'The Movie' courtesy of a poster whose name I cannot remember but it cracked me up too lol). Bravo! Bravo!!

I think that if the Prosecution can show how ridiculous the accused is, just like you have, then they would have a good chance of winning over a jury of 'average joes'.
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::lol::lol::lol:
 

DrWatson

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Thanks for your observation and explaining it Dr.

Now tell us what you see the body of Allisons' doing...can you make out which is leg or arm or anything?

And what could the police 'view clearly ' to see COD soon

Nope - can't see any of that from the photo - just the vague outline of the body where it lies. The photo is very low resolution on my monitor, and obviously a still taken from a video screenshot.

So I have no idea just WHAT it was that apparently led to the police making that statement that the cause of death was apparent straight away.
 

Keyboredom

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Sorry Doc, but I disagree. The creek is regularly used for canoeing coming from further upstream (from info I read some time ago, incl. guidelines to some small rapids after rain, etc). IMO she was placed under the bridge where she was found, so that her body would be found, but not after some time and after some decomposition had taken place. Also, it appears there was no intention of covering or burying the body. IMO there is a financial reason attached to this crime and insurance claim was part of the perp's motive. All just my speculation, of course.

I don't know the specific creek, but in others in the area, there is a variety of terrain that is usually dry but completely submerged or under rapids after a few days of heavy rain in the region. I've walked some of them, and you will see huge washouts, either silted or gravel filled, where the water has eroded the creek bed. You could hide a car in some of them, if you then covered it with rocks, logs, dirt etc. when it rains heavily, the whole thing would get washed up again and end up once again a hole, and whatever was in the 'hole' would be washed downstream. IMO someone who kind of knew the creek but never saw it under flood, could hide a body in what they thought was a ready made hiding place, cover it with something, only to find the rains of that weekend uncovered everything. JMO.

PS good point about potential wanting the body to be found ... I just find it hard to imagine, but this isn't once of the most common sense cases after all ... So anything could be right!
 

CaseClosed

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Can I just say, I dont really like the broncos??? haha but go the mighty maroons :D

My daughter was born in Sydney so she is going for the Blues .... but I don't really like footy, so I don't care who wins tonight.
 

bearbear

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Dear Possum Heart,
"Hi jools,
The rumoured car at the showgrounds has been discussed and refuted.

"Ms Baden-Clay was last seen at her residence at Brookfield, west of Brisbane, on Thursday night. Her car remained on the property yesterday."

I feel I have been slapped down, and will not make any further comments. I joined relatively recently so have not read every post on the subject, hence my question, based on an observation by a local.

actually, i dont this was ever officially fully refuted as false info, just that it was only a rumour. several locals early on posted about hearing this, so i think its still a possibility in the rumour list. i cant find a link saying it definately wasnt there first thing before police arrived.
 

minni

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In relation to where Alliosn was found, I never really believed she washed up there. I believe she was placed there by her killer. My only real reasoning is that of all the places along all of the streams, creeks and river banks, and after all the rain and high tides, her body miraculously came to rest under a bridge, up high, out of view of drivers by. This would be a big coincidence in my eyes...and I dont really believe in them
JMO, and like i said, I dont exactly have a specific reason for feeling this, just a hunch
 

DrWatson

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PS good point about potential wanting the body to be found ... I just find it hard to imagine, but this isn't once of the most common sense cases after all ... So anything could be right!

The main point, for me, is that there are so many other places that she could have been "hidden" in such a way that she would be very likely to be found. And much closer to home - no need to drive 14Km with a body in the back of the car. There are paddocks, creeks, plenty of dams within easy access of the road (we searched ours, and the search helicopters searched several others around us from very low altitude). There are overgrown areas all along where Allison would be likely to have gone walking, making a random attack by a third party while out walking much more consistent and likely.

But no - the body was driven 14Km, and put somewhere that is very hard to get to. And the bridge itself is not one that gets walked over very much, and the resting place of the body would be almost impossible to see from the bridge itself unless looking over the parapet - which would rarely happen.

I still think it was pure fluke that the kayaker found her (unless it was a tip-off job). Maybe the police have that information? What made the kayaker poke up into Kholo Creek while paddling the Brisbane River?

Just a thought....
 

Keyboredom

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In my opinion, from what I have heard and read, it seems to me that GBC has managed, over the years, to weave an incredibly intricate web of deceipt, and generally duping people including locals/ neighbours, perhaps family members, Church people, local schools, business and finance people, and councilors and politicians. As an earlier post stated: its not even who you know, but what you know about who you know, and probably still has considerable (potential, maybe) power from what he knows about quite influential people, who are now probably obliged to help out eg with finance, in order to avoid any backlash. Perhaps the person who knew most of what had been going on was his wife? This is purely my own opinion.

Jools, I want to agree with you and conclude this guy is a manipulative mastermind, but everyone, with 2 exceptions I can think of (from many dozens) who met or knew him said he was an arrogant nancy wannabe. I really don't think he has any damaging information about anyone (other than perhaps himself) and the way the local politicians suddenly stepped out of the spotlight when they saw the way this was going, points to what the rest of his 'friends' will do when the rubber hits the road.

GBC needs to rely on whatever the truth is, as it's the only thing that is likely to be obvious over the coming months (years?). He should make peace with whatever he needs to divulge to tell everything he knows... How likely that is given what we know of him?
 

CaseClosed

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Possible suicide ... ABC walking to the bridge? ... no way ... it is 14 km away from their home. IMO she never went for a walk.
 

kalamityk

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I would simply not be able to sleep at night until I told someone (maybe everyone) if I had killed someone or had helped in the cover up of a murder or accidental death, how some of these people are sleeping at night is quite beyond me.
 

bellgirl

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I think I was one of them. Was told by a local their friend saw a white 4wd and a small blue car parked up very close behind it (so close they thought they'd collided so slowed down to look). It was a very brief second hand mention, and the cars were in a different order to that reported later, and no mention the blue car was a 4wd. It was mentioned to me a while before the reports came out in the paper so presumably it's reliable in some way. The person definitely reported it to police anyway.

Thanks for discussing this again Keyboredom. I remember when you first posted this info - I was so excited! To me, it was a bit of a break through at the time. Then another poster said that someone saw the two cars on the way to work (Rocklea Markets, 4:00am?) and there was also the media report about someone seeing the two cars within 2 kms of Kholo Bridge. There could be more?

All of these reports could have come from the same witness, but I'm hoping that they are three separate witnesses. I know that nothing can be proved if these people couldn't identify the drivers as GBC and whoever else? However, I'm easily convinced (sometimes doesn't take much!) that these cars were driven by him (with Allison's body) and an accomplice. To me, it's the probably the strongest piece of info that we've been given to say that there must have been an accomplice - driving the second car.

There's also the facetime call, the sightings of NBC(?) at the roundabout and in my opinion, someone was most probably watching the kids back at the house. I really don't think that GBC could have completed the entire night's events on his own - MOO :dunno:

So, I'm eagerly awaiting another arrest ................. and also a bit more 'drip feeding' of information/evidence via Media or the Hearing. In the meantime, I love being totally addicted to this forum - there are so many intelligent and insightful thoughts amongst you all!
 

mouse detective

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The main point, for me, is that there are so many other places that she could have been "hidden" in such a way that she would be very likely to be found. And much closer to home - no need to drive 14Km with a body in the back of the car. There are paddocks, creeks, plenty of dams within easy access of the road (we searched ours, and the search helicopters searched several others around us from very low altitude). There are overgrown areas all along where Allison would be likely to have gone walking, making a random attack by a third party while out walking much more consistent and likely.

But no - the body was driven 14Km, and put somewhere that is very hard to get to. And the bridge itself is not one that gets walked over very much, and the resting place of the body would be almost impossible to see from the bridge itself unless looking over the parapet - which would rarely happen.

I still think it was pure fluke that the kayaker found her (unless it was a tip-off job). Maybe the police have that information? What made the kayaker poke up into Kholo Creek while paddling the Brisbane River?

Just a thought....

Yes but if the killer knew that a geocache was positioned in that location, there would be a reasonable prospect of the body being found within a few weeks IMHO.
 

marlywings

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The main point, for me, is that there are so many other places that she could have been "hidden" in such a way that she would be very likely to be found. And much closer to home - no need to drive 14Km with a body in the back of the car. There are paddocks, creeks, plenty of dams within easy access of the road (we searched ours, and the search helicopters searched several others around us from very low altitude). There are overgrown areas all along where Allison would be likely to have gone walking, making a random attack by a third party while out walking much more consistent and likely.

But no - the body was driven 14Km, and put somewhere that is very hard to get to. And the bridge itself is not one that gets walked over very much, and the resting place of the body would be almost impossible to see from the bridge itself unless looking over the parapet - which would rarely happen.

I still think it was pure fluke that the kayaker found her (unless it was a tip-off job). Maybe the police have that information? What made the kayaker poke up into Kholo Creek while paddling the Brisbane River?

Just a thought....

With the original search area, I think police had to work to a certain or set pattern at the beginning...once that area was thorougly searched they then extended the search area.

I think he did want her to be found, for insurance, but far enough away so that she wouldn't be found too soon so forensics wouldn't have much to go on??
 

minni

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Can I just say I don't really like spritzers ;) what about those Broncos :)

Just re Dr Watson's post, suggesting Allison's body was washed to he place she was discovered ... Completely agree ... I think I mentioned in an older thread, very early in the piece police interviewing someone at length said they suspected 2 people involved, and that Allison's body was dumped near the scout grounds, extensive searches were done of that area and not reported on in any detail. I know lots of people are claiming the way her body was position shows she may have been thrown etc., but I think there will be more to come re.the place she was disposed of, the effect of flood water, and how they came to the conclusion more than one person was involved.

To my knowledge this was well before any reports of 2 vehicles, although that information could have already been given to police... However the conversation/interview i'm referring to happened within a day of Allison being found, and I assume the reports of cars came after the Kholo Bridge location was publicised.

IMO etc ...

how about this possibility? Allison was initially left near or on the scouts property, then moved to what the killer/s and/or accomplice/s decided was a more suitable place? I suppose it would be very very hard for any one to move her if they were under scrutiny though, but I just find it hard to believe she landed where she did, when I look at the high tide marks etc, which, incidentally, brings me to my next thought:

I have looked at the photos of her under the bridge a million and one times, and still dont feel 100% satisfied that the image that everyone refers to as Allison, is Allison. I blew the photo up a couple of times, and discovered there are quite few people in the picture. there is the two that look quite clear, then there is a yellow suited person with a back pack, very close to the suggested body, and another person further up and to the left...I cant go and check right this minute, bedtimes etc, but will have a closer look in a bit, then post my thoughts as it was at least 10 - 15 threads ago that I examined it.

Does anyone else have difficulty seeing the image as Allison's body?
And does anyone else see at least 4 or 5 people in the photo?
 

Strangeworld

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The main point, for me, is that there are so many other places that she could have been "hidden" in such a way that she would be very likely to be found. And much closer to home - no need to drive 14Km with a body in the back of the car. There are paddocks, creeks, plenty of dams within easy access of the road (we searched ours, and the search helicopters searched several others around us from very low altitude). There are overgrown areas all along where Allison would be likely to have gone walking, making a random attack by a third party while out walking much more consistent and likely.

But no - the body was driven 14Km, and put somewhere that is very hard to get to. And the bridge itself is not one that gets walked over very much, and the resting place of the body would be almost impossible to see from the bridge itself unless looking over the parapet - which would rarely happen.

I still think it was pure fluke that the kayaker found her (unless it was a tip-off job). Maybe the police have that information? What made the kayaker poke up into Kholo Creek while paddling the Brisbane River?

Just a thought....

Under normal circumstances, I agree that it seems the bridge doesn't get much attention from passing traffic, particularly underneath it. However, whoever took Allison's life would have known the area would have been scoured until her body was found. Thorough searches via waterways and the land. 14km is really not that far to travel, IMO.
 

mouse detective

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Mouse, you cracked me up with your parts 1 & 2 of 'Boy Scout Gone Bad' (title of 'The Movie' courtesy of a poster whose name I cannot remember but it cracked me up too lol). Bravo! Bravo!!

I think that if the Prosecution can show how ridiculous the accused is, just like you have, then they would have a good chance of winning over a jury of 'average joes'.
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::lol::lol::lol:

I am sure Hollywood will be pounding my door down for the movie rights shortly! Just hope Mr. Nyst doesn't gazump me!!

:giggle::giggle:
 

Mani

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I don't know the specific creek, but in others in the area, there is a variety of terrain that is usually dry but completely submerged or under rapids after a few days of heavy rain in the region. I've walked some of them, and you will see huge washouts, either silted or gravel filled, where the water has eroded the creek bed. You could hide a car in some of them, if you then covered it with rocks, logs, dirt etc. when it rains heavily, the whole thing would get washed up again and end up once again a hole, and whatever was in the 'hole' would be washed downstream. IMO someone who kind of knew the creek but never saw it under flood, could hide a body in what they thought was a ready made hiding place, cover it with something, only to find the rains of that weekend uncovered everything. JMO.

PS good point about potential wanting the body to be found ... I just find it hard to imagine, but this isn't once of the most common sense cases after all ... So anything could be right!

Keyboredom, your knowledge of the creek is important and your descriptions have helped me to imagine what could have happened. I remember your early posts about the amount of water rushing down the creek the weekend before Allison was found. Only the perpetrator of this crime knows what he had in mind. IMO
 

mouse detective

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Just a question - in the prison there are tv's in the cells. Does anyone know if the inmates are allowed to watch the news programs?
 
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