Norway Norway - Isdalen, WhtFem 503UFNOR, multiple aliases, multilingual, Nov'70

Was it isotope testing results that determined where this UID likely lived, was born?? Is isotope testing considered very reliable? I can't remember specific examples but I feel as if there are some now identified persons in the US where the isotope testing was off. Maybe I'm confused (or totally incorrect) about this.
 
Was it isotope testing results that determined where this UID likely lived, was born?? Is isotope testing considered very reliable? I can't remember specific examples but I feel as if there are some now identified persons in the US where the isotope testing was off. Maybe I'm confused (or totally incorrect) about this.

You are not wrong.

There was the case of Evelyn Colon, a murdered and dismembered woman found in suitcases thrown off a bridge in Pennsylvania, who was presumed to possible be European based off of isotope testing, she went unidentified from 1976 until recently, with isotope testing being a major red herring in that case.

I believe the Little Miss Panosofkee case is also being highly mislead by isotope testing. It has her (a woman's body found in Florida) as a woman from a specific Greek city for whatever reason.
 
I believe in the case of the Isdal Woman they ran different carbon14 tests, plus a more complicated amino acid test. They used her wisdom teeth to map her early years. They even sent to two different labs to doublecheck, and both concluded she was born somewhere in Franconia (Nuremberg) and more than likely moved west to the German border somewhere. You can look at her child to teen movement hotspot map on the Death in Ice Valley website and FB page. Obviously they can't run her DNA against any public databases yet, but I was personally curious if they still ran the tests to check her possible ethnic background? I read somewhere they did, and concluded she was not Jewish somehow which surprised me. If she was Jewish as some have theorized I would expect a good percentage of Ashkenazi on her mother's side. As far as I know there's no definitive DNA test to determine if someone is Jewish. I just know they determine it from the mother's side of the family. Whatever your opinions are on the accuracy of these new methods it's still as good as it's going to get for now. I just read something about the police in Meersburg Germany being very interested in the Isdal Woman case. Hmm...Screenshot 2023-12-07 at 5.47.49 PM.png
 
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I wonder if Trimboli traded in antiques of any sort. I will always believe he knew more about her.
Trimboli seemed to travel in interesting circles (maybe it's simply because of his line of work as a photographer) but I find some intrigue about him, as well.

jmo
 
Maybe Giovanni Trimboli murdered her lol I've heard far worse theories so far.
I'm currently ruminating over her allegedly buying a large mirror with someone, she stayed in hotels with their own mirrors. Makes zero sense. To what purpose? Signal device?
 
Maybe Giovanni Trimboli murdered her lol I've heard far worse theories so far.
I'm currently ruminating over her allegedly buying a large mirror with someone, she stayed in hotels with their own mirrors. Makes zero sense. To what purpose? Signal device?


I don't think Trimboli was the murder culprit but he likely knew some of her associates in business (whether it was antiquities or something else, I don't know). I suppose photographers can specialize in different areas but to go from Scandi scenic postcards and photos of aircrafts to studio photographer for Aliki Vougiouklaki... famous Greek actress... is rather interesting (at least to me). And, he was also a publisher for Charles Schulz's "Peanuts" books in Italy. I believe he resided in Norway, Italy, England, and the US at some time or another (and who knows where else he might have lived/traveled). I can't quite track down his cause of death but was it an accident of some sort? Maybe I'm as fascinated by his life as I am by the Isdal woman.

I can't remember the mirror purchase (or maybe I've just forgotten - which is entirely possible). I wonder if the mirror (and/or it's frame) was special in some way... antique?
 
You are not wrong.

There was the case of Evelyn Colon, a murdered and dismembered woman found in suitcases thrown off a bridge in Pennsylvania, who was presumed to possible be European based off of isotope testing, she went unidentified from 1976 until recently, with isotope testing being a major red herring in that case.They

I believe the Little Miss Panosofkee case is also being highly mislead by isotope testing. It has her (a woman's body found in Florida) as a woman from a specific Greek city for whatever reason.

I agree that isotope testing can be misleading, but I didn't find it that odd that LMP was identified as possibly Greek since she was found near Tarpon Springs which is very much influenced by Greek immigrants. They arrived early in the 1900s as sponge divers and still dominate that industry. Everywhere in the town you see evidence of the Greek culture: brightly coloured fishing boats, sponges, and many Greek restaurants.

 
The leads and info found in this report are my "favorite" of theories. Not this theory exactly (maybe) but something about trading in stolen/rare/antique/art seems the best of avenues. jmo


jmo
 
The leads and info found in this report are my "favorite" of theories. Not this theory exactly (maybe) but something about trading in stolen/rare/antique/art seems the best of avenues. jmo


jmo
This could be part of the mystery, I've got this strong feeling now the woman was part Yugoslavian on either mom or dad's side. This is why she chose the Slovenian capital as her place of birth on only one of the many fake hotel registrations. The rest were Belgian cities. She was just too noticeable to be a Cold War era spy, so that's ruled out as far as I'm concerned. If she dealt in stolen Jewish art that would also get her killed by possible Israeli hunters seeking revenge, or organized crime not necessarily Mossad as I first assumed.
 
This could be part of the mystery, I've got this strong feeling now the woman was part Yugoslavian on either mom or dad's side. This is why she chose the Slovenian capital as her place of birth on only one of the many fake hotel registrations. The rest were Belgian cities. She was just too noticeable to be a Cold War era spy, so that's ruled out as far as I'm concerned. If she dealt in stolen Jewish art that would also get her killed by possible Israeli hunters seeking revenge, or organized crime not necessarily Mossad as I first assumed.

I don't quite know where the art/antiquities might have been stolen from nor who might have been buying them... but double-crossing a theft ring certainly could be applicable, also. Dangerous business if the items have great value. It would be a needle in a haystack search (especially this many years later) but I wonder if any shipping companies could be tied to her, her aliases, variations of her aliases, OR even Trimboli (or his business names).
jmo
 
I just re-listened to all 12 Death in Ice Valley podcast episodes on Youtube to see if I missed anything pertinent. The one thing that still bothers me is why was she burned alive?
Even if she was drugged she was still breathing. This to me is more of a sadistic, cold blooded act by someone with no empathy. I don't see any of the Cold War era spy agencies doing this. Not even the KGB,East German Stasi, Israeli Mossad etc. There are 1,000 more efficient ways to eliminate someone in 1970 than luring them up into a forrest and setting them on fire. Maybe a terrorist group, or organized crime. Medical examiner evidence points to her being burned twice too. First attempt only burned her lower half, the second burned her face off so she was unrecognizable. I actually like the podcast's former KGB spy's theory that she was more of a courier, so she would have been disposable to whoever she was working for. I feel someone locally, who knew the Isdal Valley well is also involved. I'd be curious to know what possible local Neo Nazi type groups could of been in Bergen, also any PLO, Fedayeen etc? The PLO had just been kicked out of Jordan a few months earlier, and some scattered into Europe and Scandinavia.
So what do we know so far based on all the tests done up to this date done on her tissue, and teeth? As well as her personal items found around her body, and in her luggage?

1. Born in the Nuremberg area of early Nazi Germany around 1930 + - 4 years (age 40-45 at death)
2. Haplogroup H24 maternal line ancestors came from (Romance language countries of Spain,France,Germany, *Romani people of Spain) also Ireland,Scotland, and England
Described as looking exotic, dark hair, dark eyes (Southern European) *Romani WWII refugee?
3. She moved to Western Germany, France, Switzerland, Belgium by her teens (why?)
learned to write in a French speaking school (where?)
4. Teeth had numerous gold fillings (exclusive to Germany, Eastern Europe, South America)
5. Had a religious picture of The Madonna in her luggage (presumed Catholic *Romani?
Is this why they gave her a Catholic funeral in Bergen?
6. Her watch, earrings, and ring were not valuable, and left near the corpse. The watch has been erroneously reported as being set to common "10:10" time. The watch examiner did that after he examined the semi burned watch. I believe it stopped at 12:45
7. Empty bottle of Norwegian specialty St.Hallvard herbal based potato vodka (80 proof) near the corpse, along with some kind of local Bergen bakery mini cake. I read maybe something called Mandalkake? not 100% sure. The actual Bergen police report in Norwegian is very hard to get ahold of to confirm any of this btw.
8. No containers for anything that could hold something flammable to set her on fire. Both water jugs contained only water. I thought about the vodka being used, but the alcohol would burn off way to fast to do that kind of damage to her skin. There were matches at the scene too. But they appeared to have been used to burn her plastic passport holder, and some other papers. The only thing close to an actual highly flammable substance was smelled on her cossack style fur hat which according to the report was found underneath her? Which does not make a lot of sense to me unless she was laid on top of it by her killer/s
9. The only really unusual things found in her luggage were a scalpel, an Austrian made common spoon, a few wigs, fake prescription glasses (with her thumb print) a box of German made matches from a well know erotic shop in Berlin (could have picked up at any restaurant, bar etc. Many West German sailors were in Bergen in the time) several pairs of "nice" underwear (not the erotic kind) scarves, sweaters, shoes, shirts, a sowing kit from a stay at a Swiss hotel, 100 Deutsche Marks, 135 Norwegian Kroner, Betnovat Norwegian prescription eczema cream (label destroyed), cosmetics (unknown retail) various Belgian, British and Swiss Coins, a few maps with her writing, and her notebook with the shorthand itinerary of her travels and stays.
10. 50-70 Fenemal brand sleeping pills in her body at autopsy, and another 12 found next to her body.
(pink colored not sold in Norway, but UK and some other countries *unconfirmed)
11. Stylish rubber seilerstøvel "sailor" boots found near her confirmed to have been the same bought in a Stavanger shop days earlier.
12. Described as speaking broken English, and an Eastern European/Balkan dialect
13. *Used the word "Kreisleitung" for a Belgian address on one of her hotel registrations. *confirmed this word was not used anywhere other than East Germany (GDR) in 1970 connected to East German Stasi? before that only in Nazi occupied zones of WWII
14. Only stayed in specific Catholic/Christian hotels in Norway with very strict religious rules (no drinking etc) *She would NOT stay in any of these if she was a prostitute. So I think we can drop that theory safely
15. The Bergen police were abruptly shut down from further investigation after just three weeks. This has led many to postulate that they were blocked by a higher authority in the Norwegian government for still unknown reasons. But the logical connection would be international matter.
As some experts including myself have theorized the country of Israel was involved. One of the spy experts on the podcast (Professor Dorrell?) said that a likely candidate would be Mossad, because they were known to 1. Be in Norway in 1970 keeping tabs on the Fedayeen groups like the PLO, and still hunting down former Nazis and other war criminals abroad. 2. They were one of the few intelligence agencies to hire a lot of women (Sylvia Raphael Lillehammer Affair 1973)
3. They used faked, stolen, forged passports for operations. My only real problem with her connection to Mossad would be that I suspect she was sent from the GDR (East Germany) that would put her on the other team against Israel and the West (NATO), but certainly anything is possible. The coincidence of the Norwegian NATO Penguin missile tests to her visits is just too easy in my opinion. She was not a Cold War era spy, a courier passing info maybe. But it still does not answer my original question, why would she be burned alive? Which group discussed would have done something like that?
 
They're sending the DNA to police agencies. I don't think they want to use a common DNA data banks and use a genealogist to find her. Not everyone wants to do that. The only information they released was that she's European. Now I think that was their way of saying she's not Jewish and/or not from Israel, without coming out and saying it. If the admin wants to remove the EK posts, they can do so.

Isdal Woman - The True Crime Database
Her maternal ancestry line is Haplogroup H24 (Romance language countries-France, Spain, and Romani people of Spain most likely, then Germany, England,Scotland, Ireland
read my last post
 
The isotopes tests are done on adult teeth. They apparently used IW’s wisdom teeth. That would give them her isotope areas from age 5 to 20. Early childhood results would be from about 5 to 10.

So for example, when the scientists say isotope evidence shows the Mad Trapper came from Norway and was “raised in the Midwest”, that probably means he had to have come to the US around age 10, so he was actually already raised for the most part by the time he got here.

Likewise, the isotopes here suggest IWs move was around the age of 10 again, so around 1940. So the likely reasons are that she was escaping Nazi persecution or was taken as an Ostarbeiter as well-suggested in the last DIIV episode, forced labour from the east, which would have started in 1942. I would put Ostarbeiter at the top of the list of possibilities which are many.

IW would have been the right age for an Ostarbeiter — 12-14. If she was one, the isotopes suggest she was taken from Yugoslavia. The Ostarbeiter lists were made public last year, and there can’t be a lot of Yugoslavians on it compared to Ukrainians.

All this is dependent on the validity of the isotope analysis. But Dr Chelsea Juarez says the isotope cut off for Mexico was about 40 years ago so around 1980. We’re talking 80-90 years ago.
I'm on board with the at least being part Yugoslavian theory. Even if born in Nuremberg. Lujubljana (hotel registration place of birth) is now the capital of Slovenia, but was a part of Yugoslavia during WWII. I remember one of the Norwegian alleged witnesses believed she had a Balkan accent with a noticeable lisp pronouncing certain letters. Might have been "s" or "r" I forget. The Death in Ice Valley FB group is a ghost town with tumbleweeds right now. Except for David Morgan and his numerous "let's throw this at the wall and see if it sticks" theories... Has anyone read his book on Amazon? I kind of want to read Aske's "Operation Isotopsy" but I feel all these Isdal related books are just going to confuse things with these author's own imaginations. I wish there was an English version of the full 1970 Bergen police report online somewhere :/
 
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