Norway Norway - Oslo - WhtFem 20-30 - Fake Name - Shot in Hotel Room - Jun'95 #2

Al Ka

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In a room at the Oslo Plaza Hotel, a young, elegant woman is found dead, with a gun shot wound to the head. Why did she check in under a false name? Why are the labels removed from her clothes? After 22 years, her grave is re-opened.

On 3 June 1995, a young woman is found dead on the bed in Room 2805 of the Oslo Plaza, shot through the forehead with a Browning 9 mm pistol. She checked in as Jennifer Fergate, but the name is false. Who is this stylish woman? Why are the labels removed from her clothes? Why is she carrying 34 rounds of ammunition?

A year later, the unidentified woman is interred in a nameless grave in Oslo. VG’s Lars Christian Wegner wrote about the simple funeral. For 20 years, he has pondered all the unanswered questions.

Now, in collaboration with the Oslo police, VG makes a final attempt to learn the identity of the Plaza woman. What really happened in Room 2805?

Saturday, 3 June 1995: Just after 7:30 p.m., receptionist Evy Tudem Gjertsen at the Oslo Plaza, Norway’s premier luxury hotel, discovered that something was wrong.

The guests in Room 2805, a Belgian couple, Jennifer and Lois Fergate, had far exceeded their credit limit.
---
The woman is lying on her back on the bed, staring at the ceiling with a gaping hole in her forehead. She must have died instantly. Significant blood loss. She holds the weapon, a 9 mm Browning pistol, in her right hand, which is resting on her chest.

The TV is still on, the room tidy. Not much luggage. No sign of other people having stayed in the room.
---
The investigation continues through the night. Both key cards are in the room. The door was double-locked from the inside. The window is ajar, but outside the mirrored glass façade stretches 28 floors to the ground. Everything indicates the woman was alone.
---
* “Suicide,” it says on a lab test order sent to the National Criminal Investigation Service, known as Kripos.

The case seems closed.

There are only two anomalies in the police investigation that evening and night:

* The labels on the dead woman’s clothing have been cut off.

* There are no relatives to notify. Belgian police report that there is no one named Jennifer or Lois Fergate. All information on the woman’s identity is false.
---
No passport. No wallet, no money, no credit card. No handbag, driver's license or keys. Not even toiletries or make-up – just a cologne bottle that was almost empty.

Anything that could have identified the deceased had been systematically removed. Had she done that herself, before taking her life? Had someone else removed all the traces?
---
Did someone kill the false Jennifer, and place the weapon in her hand to make it look like suicide?

Nor did the weapon tell detectives much. The serial number of the semi-automatic pistol, a Browning 9 mm, had been professionally removed – not just ground off, but etched away with acid. The technicians at Kripos, the National Criminal Investigation Service, managed to recover some of the number, but not enough to identify the gun. It had been made in Belgium, in 1990 or 1991. They got no further.

In the chamber of the pistol, the next bullet automatically moved up and into place, ready for firing, and seven more rounds waited in the clip. In a black attaché case next to the bed were another 25 cartridges. Jennifer had brought 34 live rounds in all. The black briefcase contained absolutely nothing but cartridges.

Not much could be gleaned from the autopsy of the young woman. Though she had claimed to be 21, forensic pathologists believed she was a bit older: 30, plus or minus five years.

Her eyes were blue, and her hair was dark and short; she weighed 67 kilograms (147 lbs) and was 159 centimetres (5′2″ inches) tall. Her fingerprints gave no matches in the Interpol data base. She had relatively expensive dental work in gold and porcelain, of a type widely used in the United States but also in some European countries, including the Netherlands, Germany and Switzerland.


Mystery at the Oslo Plaza (full story)
Mystery at the Oslo Plaza (video and evidence)

Thread #1
 
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I believe she was originally from Belarus based mostly on how she looks. That is my contribution to this.

<modnote - SOME> special intelligence and police units appears to believe she was murdered and that it was intelligence related (see Ola Kaldager, the Norwegian expert and specialist with experience with intelligence work they interviewed, he says it cannot be anything else than intelligence related).

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2020/10/10063608/unsolved-mysteries-who-is-jennifer-post-series-updates

<modsnip - no link to what ALL experts believe>

<modsnip>
 
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MOD NOTE:

1. Bickering is unproductive and against the rules. So is personalizing. Stop it.
2. If it's your opinion, say so.
3. If it's not your opinion, but objective fact, provide a link. Especially after you've been asked for one. It's against the rules not to.
4. We have NO VERIFIED EXPERTS on this thread. None. Therefore, NOBODY is capable of asserting facts about firearms without providing a link.
 
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@InternetDetective

Previous thread closed before I could reply.


As far as I know, TOD has never been published. I haven't read any police or coroner reports, newspaper articles or seen any special interest documentaries regarding time of death. Mr. F from Belgium stated he heard about the suicide the morning he checked out. But he checked out on June 3rd before JF's body was found later in the day. So either he was confused or he knew something about her death before it was publicized.

The bratwurst and potato salad was ordered about 24 hours prior to her being discovered. So either one of two things happened: she ate the food the day it was delivered and died shortly after that OR she didn't eat the food until the following day and died shortly after eating it.

The first scenario should mean that even though she had undigested food in her stomach, her body would have gone through several post mortem changes such as algor mortis, livor mortis, rigor mortis and the early signs of decomp since almost 24 hours had elapsed between food delivery and discovery. In an environment where the ambient temperature is lower than 37 degrees C, a body usually, but not always, cools about 1 degree C for every hour after death until it becomes the ambient temperature of its location. Depending on the temperature of the room and how that was affected by the open window (we don't know when the window was opened) it could have slowed down the process if the room was noticeably cooler.


AFAIK I have never heard any comments regarding the room temperature (only that the window was ajar). LE have never provided any details regarding whether rigor had come and gone or whether her body was in the process of rigor leaving or whether decomp had started. Any references to her death support the idea that she died at the time hotel security heard the gunshot.

Can you provide your link to verify your claim regarding TOD or is it your personal opinion she died 'hours earlier"?
 
@InternetDetective

I saw your post on the other thread her gun could have been fitted with a silencer. Yes, it could have been and the police would have known instantly. Browning Hi Powers need their barrel changed changed out to a threaded barrel to accept a silencer and that would have been noted. So I think it is safe to assume her gun was not fitted for a silencer.

 
I believe she was originally from Belarus based mostly on how she looks. That is my contribution to this.

<modnote - SOME> special intelligence and police units appears to believe she was murdered and that it was intelligence related (see Ola Kaldager, the Norwegian expert and specialist with experience with intelligence work they interviewed, he says it cannot be anything else than intelligence related).

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2020/10/10063608/unsolved-mysteries-who-is-jennifer-post-series-updates

We are not here to discuss if this was a murder, all experts are unanimous in their belief that it was, but how it happened and  who she really was.

<modsnip>
BBM. Official cause of death is suicide by gunshot. So the experts are not unanimous.
 
@InternetDetective

I saw your post on the other thread her gun could have been fitted with a silencer. Yes, it could have been and the police would have known instantly. Browning Hi Powers need their barrel changed changed out to a threaded barrel to accept a silencer and that would have been noted. So I think it is safe to assume her gun was not fitted for a silencer.

Exactly! It is plainly obvious from the police pictures that this gun did not have that as the threads of such a barrel obviously have to extend beyond the slide and the police pictures do not show that. In addition, that type of barrel would have been exceptionally rare back in 1995.
 
Exactly! It is plainly obvious from the police pictures that this gun did not have that as the threads of such a barrel obviously have to extend beyond the slide and the police pictures do not show that. In addition, that type of barrel would have been exceptionally rare back in 1995.
Would this also match to "our" weapon? Please keep in mind that this isn't a real Browning, it's a replica from FEG in Hungaria.

@InternetDetective Can you name a source which weapon type was used in Belarus for "offical" executions?
 
Would this also match to "our" weapon? Please keep in mind that this isn't a real Browning, it's a replica from FEG in Hungaria.

@InternetDetective Can you name a source which weapon type was used in Belarus for "offical" executions?
It was a licensed copy manufactured in Belgium and this would have worked. You have to affix a silencer to a threaded barrel, there is no other way.
 
Would this also match to "our" weapon? Please keep in mind that this isn't a real Browning, it's a replica from FEG in Hungaria.

@InternetDetective Can you name a source which weapon type was used in Belarus for "offical" executions?
It's actually a "bitsa" or "Frankengun" in that it's made from parts of other guns. The slide is Belgian made and carries the inscription of Browning Canada who imported it (although it may have actually been made or part-finished there) which means it was probably originally supplied in the USA. The US has high import duties on foreign guns which is why many European manufacturers have factories there and in Canada.

As you say, the receiver is most probably by FEG of Hungary, although there may be some doubt there. FEG were licensed to produce their own version of the GP35 for may years.

The barrel, if I recall correctly, is marked 9mm Nato which tends to suggest that it may be from a military gun as the GP35 was a common military side arm. The British used it for decades and Saddam Hussein was rarely seen without his. Although I think commercial guns also carried that inscription.

Edit: having looked again at the pictures in the VG article - the specific barrel markings are 9x19 NATO. That suggests that it is chambered and proof tested to NATO standards which often differ from commercial specifications, albeit, only very slightly. This, IMO, makes it highly likely that the barrel was originally fitted to a gun made for military service (or as a military spare or replacement), rather than for commercial civilian sale.
 
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It's actually a "bitsa" or "Frankengun" in that it's made from parts of other guns. The slide is Belgian made and carries the inscription of Browning Canada who imported it (although it may have actually been made or part-finished there) which means it was probably originally supplied in the USA. The US has high import duties on foreign guns which is why many European manufacturers have factories there and in Canada.

As you say, the receiver is most probably by FEG of Hungary, although there may be some doubt there. FEG were licensed to produce their own version of the GP35 for may years.

The barrel, if I recall correctly, is marked 9mm Nato which tends to suggest that it may be from a military gun as the GP35 was a common military side arm. The British used it for decades and Saddam Hussein was rarely seen without his. Although I think commercial guns also carried that inscription.

Edit: having looked again at the pictures in the VG article - the specific barrel markings are 9x19 NATO. That suggests that it is chambered and proof tested to NATO standards which often differ from commercial specifications, albeit, only very slightly. This, IMO, makes it highly likely that the barrel was originally fitted to a gun made for military service (or as a military spare or replacement), rather than for commercial civilian sale.
Well, the VG article has an unnamed "source" who claims that the gun is a bitsa but I have not seen anything official about that at all. Even the VG article talks about how the Belgian police assisted the Norwegian authorities determine the gun was from the Belgian factory. So I am skeptical about it being a bitsa.

In any case we know there was no silencer affixed to the gun because it was not a threaded barrel.
 
This is a genuine question and not intended to push any particular opinion, but do any of you guys who know about guns have any hesitation in accepting that the gun under discussion is genuinely the gun that was used to kill Jennifer Fergate (whether by herself or a third party)?

The VG article, which appears to have had the cooperation of the Norwegian police, states that the gun had been earmarked for destruction, along with various other pieces of evidence, but then - miraculously! - turns out to have been preserved as a kind of museum piece, not for any reason connected to the case but just as an example of a gun that had had its serial number removed, for educational purposes. (Mystery at the Oslo Plaza)

I remember reading that and thinking - hang on a minute. A pretty unusual firearm used in a controversial case involving a still-unidentified victim, is it plausible that that would be sent for destruction? And furthermore, is it plausible that Kripos wouldn't already have had plenty of examples of illegal firearms with the serial numbers removed? Why keep that one? And even if both of those scenarios are true, it still seems kind of implausible to me that the right person would be in the right place at the right time to notice and recognise the sample weapon in the glass case, and identify it reliably as the Oslo Plaza weapon, enabling it to be pursued further as a lead and more advanced tests to be conducted. If I were the journalist, I would have felt pretty damn jammy and perhaps a bit suspicious.

So I guess I'm asking if anyone who knows guns has compared the one pictured in the VG article with the one seen in the crime scene photos, and whether that raises any queries or concerns?
 
This is a genuine question and not intended to push any particular opinion, but do any of you guys who know about guns have any hesitation in accepting that the gun under discussion is genuinely the gun that was used to kill Jennifer Fergate (whether by herself or a third party)?

The VG article, which appears to have had the cooperation of the Norwegian police, states that the gun had been earmarked for destruction, along with various other pieces of evidence, but then - miraculously! - turns out to have been preserved as a kind of museum piece, not for any reason connected to the case but just as an example of a gun that had had its serial number removed, for educational purposes. (Mystery at the Oslo Plaza)

I remember reading that and thinking - hang on a minute. A pretty unusual firearm used in a controversial case involving a still-unidentified victim, is it plausible that that would be sent for destruction? And furthermore, is it plausible that Kripos wouldn't already have had plenty of examples of illegal firearms with the serial numbers removed? Why keep that one? And even if both of those scenarios are true, it still seems kind of implausible to me that the right person would be in the right place at the right time to notice and recognise the sample weapon in the glass case, and identify it reliably as the Oslo Plaza weapon, enabling it to be pursued further as a lead and more advanced tests to be conducted. If I were the journalist, I would have felt pretty damn jammy and perhaps a bit suspicious.

So I guess I'm asking if anyone who knows guns has compared the one pictured in the VG article with the one seen in the crime scene photos, and whether that raises any queries or concerns?

Even though the police department destroyed all the physical evidence, up to and including her clothes and jewelry (which they sold at auction) by the time they did it, there was plenty of photographic evidence. We still have images of the deceased on the bed, images of her holding the weapon, the bedding covered in blood, blood spatter on the walls, the remains of the meal, bullet fragments under the bed, casings on the carpet and initial photos of the weapon with a ruler. All of those records could probably be enough to identify it as the original weapon. It wasn't in good shape since it hadn't been looked after properly. MOO
 
This is a genuine question and not intended to push any particular opinion, but do any of you guys who know about guns have any hesitation in accepting that the gun under discussion is genuinely the gun that was used to kill Jennifer Fergate (whether by herself or a third party)?

The VG article, which appears to have had the cooperation of the Norwegian police, states that the gun had been earmarked for destruction, along with various other pieces of evidence, but then - miraculously! - turns out to have been preserved as a kind of museum piece, not for any reason connected to the case but just as an example of a gun that had had its serial number removed, for educational purposes. (Mystery at the Oslo Plaza)

I remember reading that and thinking - hang on a minute. A pretty unusual firearm used in a controversial case involving a still-unidentified victim, is it plausible that that would be sent for destruction? And furthermore, is it plausible that Kripos wouldn't already have had plenty of examples of illegal firearms with the serial numbers removed? Why keep that one? And even if both of those scenarios are true, it still seems kind of implausible to me that the right person would be in the right place at the right time to notice and recognise the sample weapon in the glass case, and identify it reliably as the Oslo Plaza weapon, enabling it to be pursued further as a lead and more advanced tests to be conducted. If I were the journalist, I would have felt pretty damn jammy and perhaps a bit suspicious.

So I guess I'm asking if anyone who knows guns has compared the one pictured in the VG article with the one seen in the crime scene photos, and whether that raises any queries or concerns?
I think the answer is complex and depends on local laws which I am assuming are much different in Norway than here in the USA. My answer will be my best guess based upon my recollection of the case.

There were 2 shots fired, both were recovered. I am assuming the ME would have forwarded the rounds to the police who them examined them and compared them to the gun. However I have never seen this confirmed.

Based upon my own experience with several cases here in the USA suicides are handled by police but with less scrutiny. I can 100% see the authorities not doing microscopic analysis on the rounds recovered to compare them to the gun in her hand. But we know from what happened, the security guy heard a gunshot and when the door was open he smelled the gunpowder. I think it is highly likely the recovered rounds came from the gun in her hand which had the trigger depressed when she was found. I also don't think it would be unusual for a gun that was not used in a crime but also in limbo with no rightful owner to be destroyed.

I think the gun they found as a museum piece is likely the gun used in her suicide. Browning Hi Powers are very common 9mm firearms. But acid removal of serial numbers is probably rare and even rarer still the partial recovery of the serial number. The pictures of the crime scene and the gun are not great. It would be almost impossible to compare those pics to the gun they found, however the authorities could do it almost instantly since it would be a quick check because they possess native photos and not the grainy ones we see on the internet.

I guess it comes down to how much do you trust the authorities? I know one Websleuther tried to obtain the case file on this one and was refused but I am guessing the answer to all of your questions lies within.
 
This is a genuine question and not intended to push any particular opinion, but do any of you guys who know about guns have any hesitation in accepting that the gun under discussion is genuinely the gun that was used to kill Jennifer Fergate (whether by herself or a third party)?

The VG article, which appears to have had the cooperation of the Norwegian police, states that the gun had been earmarked for destruction, along with various other pieces of evidence, but then - miraculously! - turns out to have been preserved as a kind of museum piece, not for any reason connected to the case but just as an example of a gun that had had its serial number removed, for educational purposes. (Mystery at the Oslo Plaza)

I remember reading that and thinking - hang on a minute. A pretty unusual firearm used in a controversial case involving a still-unidentified victim, is it plausible that that would be sent for destruction? And furthermore, is it plausible that Kripos wouldn't already have had plenty of examples of illegal firearms with the serial numbers removed? Why keep that one? And even if both of those scenarios are true, it still seems kind of implausible to me that the right person would be in the right place at the right time to notice and recognise the sample weapon in the glass case, and identify it reliably as the Oslo Plaza weapon, enabling it to be pursued further as a lead and more advanced tests to be conducted. If I were the journalist, I would have felt pretty damn jammy and perhaps a bit suspicious.

So I guess I'm asking if anyone who knows guns has compared the one pictured in the VG article with the one seen in the crime scene photos, and whether that raises any queries or concerns?
From the pictures I have no doubts that it's the gun recovered at the scene. I think that someone pointed out many posts ago that there is a scratch along the near-side of the receiver which is evident in all the photos.

I don't find it a stretch that the gun was kept for the reasons stated. Removal of numbers in that way probably isn't common. Rather than simply keeping it as an exhibit piece, part of the reason was probably so that they could test new methods of serial number recovery as they were developed.

I think that the VG article is possibly a little heavy on the "wow - look what we just found, man". I cannot believe that they didn't know it was there and it would have been on their possession records in any case. Remember it was 1995 that they took possession of it so it's most likely that no one working in the property possession section would have known it's origin. The whole case is somewhat big today but that's only since the VG article and Netflix doc came out - my money is on it being almost completely forgotten about until very recently. No one would have had any reason to know it's history.

I'm sure that the VG article states quite uniquivically that the police have said the gun recovered was the one she was shot with.

All my own opinion, obviously.
 
I think the answer is complex and depends on local laws which I am assuming are much different in Norway than here in the USA. My answer will be my best guess based upon my recollection of the case.

There were 2 shots fired, both were recovered. I am assuming the ME would have forwarded the rounds to the police who them examined them and compared them to the gun. However I have never seen this confirmed.

Based upon my own experience with several cases here in the USA suicides are handled by police but with less scrutiny. I can 100% see the authorities not doing microscopic analysis on the rounds recovered to compare them to the gun in her hand. But we know from what happened, the security guy heard a gunshot and when the door was open he smelled the gunpowder. I think it is highly likely the recovered rounds came from the gun in her hand which had the trigger depressed when she was found. I also don't think it would be unusual for a gun that was not used in a crime but also in limbo with no rightful owner to be destroyed.

I think the gun they found as a museum piece is likely the gun used in her suicide. Browning Hi Powers are very common 9mm firearms. But acid removal of serial numbers is probably rare and even rarer still the partial recovery of the serial number. The pictures of the crime scene and the gun are not great. It would be almost impossible to compare those pics to the gun they found, however the authorities could do it almost instantly since it would be a quick check because they possess native photos and not the grainy ones we see on the internet.

I guess it comes down to how much do you trust the authorities? I know one Websleuther tried to obtain the case file on this one and was refused but I am guessing the answer to all of your questions lies within.

One thing I found out recently unless I have a terrible recollection of reading it before, is that it states that the two bullets holes in the bedding were under the head of the deceased and were only about 7.5 cm or 3 inches apart.

That would lead me to believe that the shot using the pillow would have been done first. I think this because it would probably be very difficult to move a dead body without leaving evidence of blood, brain matter and bone fragments in areas where it should not be and replace her back in the original position she was found in.
 
Thank you, all - particularly as regards the feasibility of the gun being kept in that way for that reason, which made my antennae flap madly but perhaps, as you say @Marantz4250b, is mainly in the retelling.

There was some discussion iirc, way, way back in thread #1 that the image of the gun in the crime scene pics might have been tampered with, but I don't know how knowledgeable that analysis was. If there were to be any disparity between the two, it would throw considerable shade on the LE investigation, which in turn means we're highly unlikely ever to unearth the truth here, realistically.

I agree that any apparent sloppiness could be ascribed to an assumption that it was a suicide.

One thing I found out recently unless I have a terrible recollection of reading it before, is that it states that the two bullets holes in the bedding were under the head of the deceased and were only about 7.5 cm or 3 inches apart.

That would lead me to believe that the shot using the pillow would have been done first. I think this because it would probably be very difficult to move a dead body without leaving evidence of blood, brain matter and bone fragments in areas where it should not be and replace her back in the original position she was found in.

What is the likelihood that someone in a supine position shooting themselves in the forehead would miss first time, do we think? Is it possible that a combination of outstretched arms, shaking hands, nerves, etc, would lead to a shot into the pillow the first time?

Tbf, I'm playing devil's advocate a bit now, as I still see it as a murder really.
 

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