Norway Norway - Oslo, WhtFem 20-30, Fake Name, shot in hotel room, Jun'95

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MrsWattle

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I've come here because a few websleuths on the Marion Barter WS have mentioned similarities to a POI Belgian criminal Ric Blum now in his 80's. ,
He Travelled to Europe Feb 1970 for approx 10 months.
Recently a story in Luxembourg papers about Marion Barter missing has brought forward Belgian Ghislaine female victim with stories of his interest in poison, swindling money, isolating victims, travelling different days, changing appearance.
He has had at least 10 passports in different names, 37 aliases. Jailed in France for fraud, writing checks without cover, confidence tricks etc in early 70's

He is a romance swindler also 4 trips to Europe in 1995
Jennifer fergate mystery could fit his MO too.
 

Leigy

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<modsnip - discussing moderation on the thread>

in regards to the food being undigested In her stomach despite ordering it a day before; she likely ordered the food, felt like not eating it, put it in the mini-fridge for later, and then ate it shortly before she died.
I think people are not realizing there was a mini fridge in the room.
 
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JuicyLucy

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<modsnip - discussing moderation on the thread>

in regards to the food being undigested In her stomach despite ordering it a day before; she likely ordered the food, felt like not eating it, put it in the mini-fridge for later, and then ate it shortly before she died.
I think people are not realizing there was a mini fridge in the room.

Or felt unable (scared?) to leave the room and was eking the food out.
 

shadowdancer

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Or felt unable (scared?) to leave the room and was eking the food out.

I could be totally misremembering here, but weren't there packets of potato chips in the room from the mini bar? Or were those just empty packets that she had previously eaten?

If it was just empty packets, then I can see why she might have been trying to make the meal last, although I remember seeing a photo of the plate showing that she never finished the whole meal?!

I don't know, something feels kind of weird about the whole thing. If she wanted to keep the food for a later time, then why not order the room service at the time that she actually wanted to eat it?

One thought that springs to mind is that she ordered the meal with the intention to eat it straight away and then somebody came to her room (Lois perhaps) and interrupted her meal, so thats why she set it aside. But even that feels like a long time to leave the meal, unless the visitor stayed all night in the room with her.
 
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branmuffin

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I cannot see this death as a suicide. Oh, I know there's no obvious clues that lead to murder but there are so many things that don't make sense. First of all, suicide in women rarely involves weapons. The usual forms of suicide in women are exsanguination or drug overdoses.

Yes, there was a gun in the room and lots of bullets but whose gun was it? And if she was one of those rare women who do shoot themselves in the head why would she use one of the most awkward ways to do it; using her thumb to pull the trigger and aiming for her forehead? The recoil of the weapon would cause the deceased to drop the gun since the grip was so awkward.

More women make attempts at suicide than men and survive because they don't use one the most lethal forms of suicide, a gun. And anyone who is intent on killing themselves usually know that the thinnest part of the skull is the temple. So why would you purposely shoot yourself in one of the areas of the skull where the bone is the thickest?

Where were her clothes? Her money? She tipped 50 Kroner for the meal.

I firmly believe that someone was in the room with her and put the gun up against her forehead while she was sitting on the bed. I think she was taken completely by surprise. She had no gun residue on her hand. I believe someone staged that incredibly awkward way of killing yourself and whose only route was to force her thumb into the trigger to even remotely match the wound pattern.

I also think even though it appeared she was alone the whole time I believe a lot of the records of the door opening and closing is because she was actually spending time in another room on the floor, possibly with the Belgium mystery man exactly opposite her room. I remember reading that when she checked in she was given an extra duvet yet two of them were discovered in the room. Where did that come from? It would have had to come from another room. Even the pillow with blood on it may have come from another room. That made me wonder whether she was actually killed in the other room, wrapped in a duvet and brought back into the room she rented. Any of the blood spatter found on the wall and bed could have easily been placed there.

I'm not aware whether LE did any checking of other rooms to find out where the second duvet came from. Most hotel laundry doesn't have numbers on that could be tracked to a specific room.

As for the remains of undigested food in her stomach at autopsy, that could also have been from a meal ordered from another room.
 

JuicyLucy

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If she wanted to keep the food for a later time, then why not order the room service at the time that she actually wanted to eat it?

Because meantime she'd been busted as a non payer? Reception was contacting her repeatedly about payment for the room. They weren't going to be sending any more food, so if she had reason to feel unsafe leaving the room (and personally I think she was murdered, so that's plausible) she had no option but to eke out what had already been delivered.

That's my take on it anyway. But its value as a theory is mainly just to challenge the idea (expressed by various people over the years) that the food from the day before still being undigested "must" mean she'd been dead longer than supposed. To me, it could equally mean there was a lag between it arriving and her eating (some of) it.

For me, the real stumbling block to the idea that she committed suicide is the missing clothes. It's odd enough to have no clothes for the bottom half of your body, but odder still to have disposed of them if you are dead. Unless anyone seriously believes that her dying act was to throw all her skirts, trousers and underwear out of her hotel window, then someone else was in that room - someone else who has never come forward and who took at least some items with them when they left. I don't see how that can not be suspicious, even leaving every other odd aspect of this case aside.
 

Tsarapina

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OK... This is good info, but I was having trouble visualizing things... So I made my own version 3.0 with color to bring out the patterns of usage. Also used a "6" instead of a "b" for the first character of one of the card IDs.

**NOTE**
Card ID #s and "User Types" are grouped by color. The more "off" an entry seems to me MOO - The darker the shade of that color.


ETA:
Not sure why the uploaded version won't go full-size. Ima try to post it inline.

I just noticed I messed up the date on the Saturday entries. It should read 06-03-95 on all the ones that say 06-06-95. SMH bc I flattened the image and saved it as a .jpg... so there's no quick n' easy way to edit that ATM.
0fHZbUh.jpg
Could you please tell where did you get a copy from the logserver ans the information about previous guests ? Thank you !
 
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caradana

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This case feels primed for a genealogical DNA solve, but with fully European origin it might take another 10-20 years? (Interested in expert perspectives from the EU - I’m almost solely familiar with US rates of voluntary data upload, and I’m assuming it’s more pervasive. Could be wrong).
 

JuicyLucy

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This case feels primed for a genealogical DNA solve, but with fully European origin it might take another 10-20 years? (Interested in expert perspectives from the EU - I’m almost solely familiar with US rates of voluntary data upload, and I’m assuming it’s more pervasive. Could be wrong).

It might identify her (eventually, if the law changes) but it still might not satisfy our curiosity about what happened. Many of the theories favoured here or on the web generally revolve around scenarios in which she could well be estranged from family and friends or at least be concealing her activities from them. If she was involved with security services, organised crime or even just sex work, it's quite likely no DNA-linked individual would be able to say what she was doing in that hotel, still less what happened in that room, and equally anyone who ever did know what she was up to might well not be aware of her real identity.

In my opinion, our best chance of understanding this mystery is if someone who was involved with hotel security or the police investigation at the time speaks out about something that isn't currently in the public domain. I've previously seen the part-time student security guard posting in a web forum that he always felt guilty about her, which has made me wonder if he knew about, or suspected, some kind of cover-up, but his choice of words could equally be to do with expressing himself in a language other than his mother tongue, so we perhaps shouldn't read too much into it.

JMO
 

InternetDetective

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Further, I am fully convinced "Lois" killed her in the morning hours. I believe he woke her up, said that they were going somewhere, she was still tired... And laid down in the bed, and he shot her with a silencer while she had her eyes closed.

When security guard came I believe he was cleaning it up and staging it, but it took too long time...
 

InternetDetective

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I believe "Jennifer" was born in Belarus and moved to East Germany/DDR at a very young age in the 70s. She remained there until the fall of the Berlin wall, and most likely returned to Belarus. She was fluent in German (and English) and was a young woman and would therefore make good intelligence operative.

Further, I think she was raised in the KGB/Stasi, her "family" (I believe she may not have had much of a family) consisted of these type of people. Maybe her mother was dead, and she was raised by her father who was stationed in the DDR. VERY plausible. There were lots of Russians in former East Germany.

"Lois" I believe is also originally from Belarus/Russia. He probably lives in Minsk or nearby.

Most people looking at this believe it has some kind of Russia connection, this could very well be.
 

Oakie

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I believe "Jennifer" was born in Belarus and moved to East Germany/DDR at a very young age in the 70s. She remained there until the fall of the Berlin wall, and most likely returned to Belarus. She was fluent in German (and English) and was a young woman and would therefore make good intelligence operative.

Further, I think she was raised in the KGB/Stasi, her "family" (I believe she may not have had much of a family) consisted of these type of people. Maybe her mother was dead, and she was raised by her father who was stationed in the DDR. VERY plausible. There were lots of Russians in former East Germany.

"Lois" I believe is also originally from Belarus/Russia. He probably lives in Minsk or nearby.

Most people looking at this believe it has some kind of Russia connection, this could very well be.
Maybe. My sense all along, is that she was more of a Gladio/Comindex/Fremd-herren-oste mind-controlled slave, who had outlived her utility, and was liquidated. Probably not commie.

This affair has "CIA" written all over it.
 

InternetDetective

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Maybe. My sense all along, is that she was more of a Gladio/Comindex/Fremd-herren-oste mind-controlled slave, who had outlived her utility, and was liquidated. Probably not commie.

This affair has "CIA" written all over it.
Doubt that.

I'd say it has "KGB" written all over it.

She is not American.
 

Oakie

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Her nationality isn't indicative of who her murderer worked for. The CIA has been at the root of most skullduggery in Europe since its creation in '47. It employed (among others) unreconstructed NAZIs, (including a lot of Reinhard Galen's men) to do all sorts of dirty work.

By their very nature, acts of this sort are hard to trace down; but if I had to bet, I'd put my money on some client agency acting on orders of the CIA.
 

InternetDetective

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"Gladio/Comindex/Fremd-herren-oste mind-controlled"

Hmm... Would make a good scifi/thriller but I doubt that.

Nah, I believe this woman was working for some intelligence "organization" relating to Russia and/or Belarus. She looks like she is from these neck of the woods, she spoke with an East German accent, they have already determined she grew up there through DNA.

Why on earth would CIA be involved?

Had she been American I could believe it. But this is a "Russian" who grew up in DDR.
 

InternetDetective

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Her nationality isn't indicative of who her murderer worked for. The CIA has been at the root of most skullduggery in Europe since its creation in '47. It employed (among others) unreconstructed NAZIs, (including a lot of Reinhard Galen's men) to do all sorts of dirty work.

By their very nature, acts of this sort are hard to trace down; but if I had to bet, I'd put my money on some client agency acting on orders of the CIA.
Well, I believe you would lose your money.

Everything points towards that she is with an eastern European (ie. Russian, former Soviet Union) intelligence organization.

I'd put my money on some client agency on the orders of the KGB. Along with that, I would guess that you are American?
 

Springrain

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I think, like Somerton Man, if Oslo Jane Doe is ever identified, her story will be far more banal than the fanciful theories thrown around online.
Definitely agree with this one. After considering it for a while now I feel she was probably severely mentally ill, suffering from delusions, and took her own life as a result. JMO.
 
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